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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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If you are safejumping correctly no dp should be hitting you. You may not be hitting j.S low enough to the ground so that you can land and block. VV is hard to safe jump because it is fast, so it is going to take a little more practice than stuff like vapor thrust or Sin's dp.

Meaties definitely beat throws-it helps to stand a bit out of throw range to ensure that in the event you meaty is mistimed they counterhit themselves

 

So meaties do actually beat throws on wake up? I guess I was misinformed,thanks. 

 

First you need to take a character's wake-up timing into account: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=System_Data_(GGXRD)

Sol's is pretty standard, his face-up is a bit slower than face-down. Most knockdowns with Sol are face-up so usually that's the one you need to know the timing for, except for 2D knockdown which is face-down.

HSVV is 5f so you have to be on point with your timing to safejump it. After a 2D > BR knockdown, talk about a half step forward then forward jump into deep j.S/j.HS while blocking. You can walk forward a different amount of time depending on the character's wake-up timing. Dashing neutral jump is also useful for safejumps, but for learning the timing try walking first.

Yes, empty jump stuff is susceptible to being thrown the frame you land. That's why it's not very effective unless they have a high advantage Gun Flame (YRC) on top of them, which is only possible in corner (and even here is it susceptible to being thrown, but the opponent is often less inclined to try it). Corner also gives you the option of spacing yourself outside throw range with empty jump 2K, while still having time to do a meaty safe jump. At midscreen it's difficult to create that scenario and get good rewards off it.

If you're timing it so the empty jump low is meaty, it's not hard for the opponent to block since they can tell you don't have time to get a meaty jump-in, you'll have to either meaty upon landing or do an airdash which is susceptible to reversals.

The effectiveness of empty jump within throw range depends on how the opponent decides to defend against you're safejump oki. In a lot of higher level matches you'll see the Sol's don't thrown out of it, that's because a lot of times they choose to fuzzy guard/jump in favor of using throw or anti-air/throw option-selects. Against people who don't deal with safejump oki well, you can get away with delay airdash j.S to hit them for attempting a throw without option-selecting it with a fast or invul anti-air normal. If they use anti-air/throw OS, delay airdash j.P can beat some of those since it's faster and Sol's hurtbox moves up, but that typically won't hit crouching. Delay double jump can also allow whiff punishing, but it depends on what attack was used for the throw whiff. Delay airdash > j.VV should beat out pretty much any throw whiff, but risky without meter to RC.

 

Thanks for the post. I'll practice while taking all of this into account. 

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So meaties do actually beat throws on wake up? I guess I was misinformed,thanks.

Oh, well no actually I think with perfect timing a throw will beat a non-throw-invulnerable meaty within range. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

That's what makes safejumps nice, you're in air when doing the meaty so you don't need to worry about that.

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Oh, well no actually I think with perfect timing a throw will beat a non-throw-invulnerable meaty within range. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

That's what makes safejumps nice, you're in air when doing the meaty so you don't need to worry about that.

 

well yea that's what I figured I was just going by what fenrir hades said. I'll test it for myself and report back.

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I think throws beat attacks if they collide on the same frame (or that may be BB leaking over, not sure).

 

EDIT: Wiki states throws are 0F startup, which is why they can beat meaty attacks.

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I think throws beat attacks if they collide on the same frame (or that may be BB leaking over, not sure).

EDIT: Wiki states throws are 0F startup, which is why they can beat meaty attacks.

Hmmm I learn things everyday. Thanks

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a lot of those look like you can do a dp after f+hs.. ireally dont know why japanese still arent doing that like I showed in my video... Is there a japanese site to post combo videos like the old days still?

 

Not sure dude. As far as why they don't do DP, couple of times I tried it it was kinda inconsistent. Also I think oki off of 6HS is better than VV oki, though I'm still learning the game so I could be wrong. The extra damage from DP might not be worth it.

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Usually going from anything that you can tick into throw (2P, 2K etc), you can do either:-

c.S (5 frames, fast, good starter, has numerous gatling options leading to and from it, good compromise of potential benefit and versatility)

2D (7 frames, low profile, counters mid and high pokes, leads into short meterless combos on CH mid-screen and full combos in the corner)

6P (9 frames, upper body invulnerability, good horizontal range, now grants full combos on CH mid-screen with co-operative screen positioning)

Also, after 2S, if the opponent expects you to dash in off frame advantage and resume pressure, 6HS is good as an anti-jump normal and leads into catastrophic damage on CH, should they try to counter-poke.

Thanks for the reply.I really appreciate it. So pretty much daash in 2p, 2k, follow up into anything? Throw, 2s, wildthrow etc..?

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I'd never run up 2P. I'd rather 2S or 5K 2S. Dash up 5K is strong. Dashing 2S, especially from father away, is also very strong. Combine these with Fafnir and Gunflame, and you can make it very scary for them to do anything but jump backwards even from mid range.

I also would never use cl.S instead of 2S except in corner combos or for damage. I'd rather use 5K.

True meaties can be thrown if you're in throw range.

It doesn't matter if you're doing a real mixup if you can continue doing pressure. Sol is good at being "sticky," where he gets to a range and maintains an advantage at that range. Then he converts for big damage.

You can space Wild Throw outside of their throw range, especially in the corner.

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URGENT NEWS GAIZ I NEED AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION:

 

 

Anyone know what P.B.B. stands for? :33333

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Meant to post this here:

 

How do I consistently get j. 214K after j.D in the corner to end the Machaboo Dust Loop combos? It seems totally random for me. 

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...but you'd be jump-cancelling out of f. H after 6P wall bounce.

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So I just started messing with him since I've gotten a good handle on his rival Ky and holy hell Fafnir < YRC is stupid good. Obviously gimmicky and I'm about 90% sure people can just mash/DP out of it if they expect it but if your opponent is conditioned right then it's definitely worth it for Wild Throw setups, etc. 

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...but you'd be jump-cancelling out of f. H after 6P wall bounce.

The Machaboo combo (the bnb one?) Ends in j.214K> 6P> BR. You need to hit j.D not too close in the corner so that both hits of kukadero will hit, which will keep the combo from dropping m

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I think throws beat attacks if they collide on the same frame (or that may be BB leaking over, not sure).

 

EDIT: Wiki states throws are 0F startup, which is why they can beat meaty attacks.

At least in previous GG's, this was not actually the case.  Throws are 1f, but within the computations for the frame they occur before any attack would.  So a frame goes like (movement, Guard, throw, hit, next frame) ect. 

 

You could probably test the order using a +0 f move and trying to have the defender throw it and the attack jump.  Try the same with a -1.  If the throw only hits the -1, its PROBABLY a 1f move.  It could also be that the throw frame is checked prior to the movement frame, but I find that unlikely.

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Throws are the same as they've always been. Which means that they connect the frame after they're inputted. The term "0 frame throw" comes from a long time ago when frame data was represented differently. Basically, any move that we call "3 frame startup" nowadays was considered "2 frame startup" because it hit on the third frame.

 

tl;dr 0 frame throws and 1 frame throws are the same thing. Throws beat meaties.

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Meant to post this here:

How do I consistently get j. 214K after j.D in the corner to end the Machaboo Dust Loop combos? It seems totally random for me.

If you mean in Fafnir > dash 6P > delay 5HS/2HS (JC) > j.D > Kudakero etc, you probably aren't delaying long enough after the 6P. If the opponent and you are too deep in corner the 2nd Kudakero hit whiffs. Need to delay 5HS/2HS so they bounce closer to you when you j.D.

So I just started messing with him since I've gotten a good handle on his rival Ky and holy hell Fafnir < YRC is stupid good. Obviously gimmicky and I'm about 90% sure people can just mash/DP out of it if they expect it but if your opponent is conditioned right then it's definitely worth it for Wild Throw setups, etc.

I like it particularly in corner, as a check in small gaps to either air throw if they tried jumping out or continue pressure if not. It is somewhat gimmicky if you YRC within throw range though, since you can be thrown out of WT or attacks after the YRC. It's definitely good if you can stop at max WT range though to outrange their throw.

Related, this is also true for GF YRC > WT. Only truly strong if you're just outside their throw range. But when in throw range they are limited to that option because GF is on top of them, outside using reversals, DAA, or burst. You could also jump there theoretically and they'll take a CH GF so its risky for them.

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I'd never run up 2P. I'd rather 2S or 5K 2S. Dash up 5K is strong. Dashing 2S, especially from father away, is also very strong. Combine these with Fafnir and Gunflame, and you can make it very scary for them to do anything but jump backwards even from mid range.

I also would never use cl.S instead of 2S except in corner combos or for damage. I'd rather use 5K.

True meaties can be thrown if you're in throw range.

It doesn't matter if you're doing a real mixup if you can continue doing pressure. Sol is good at being "sticky," where he gets to a range and maintains an advantage at that range. Then he converts for big damage.

You can space Wild Throw outside of their throw range, especially in the corner.

 

Run up 2P is fine if you are already in your active range. Given that it's +2 on block, it has some advantages over 5K. 5K requires that you always cancel into something, and from further away this can pose some problems.

Similarly, 5S© has some advantages over 2S in frame traps after 2P and 2K, namely the larger variety of gatling options and jump cancel.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with using 5K and 2S primarily. It's just good to keep flexibility in your offense to avoid becoming too predictable.

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After playing Xrd without internet assistance for a couple weeks (just going off of my #R knowledge, for better or worse) I'm combing the net for frame data and optimal stuff. What would be the optimal/max damage punish for Bridal Express? Can you get a WT? I tried but maybe online latency screwed me up.

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The degree to which you can punish Bridal Express depends on the distance in which it's initiated. If you block the first active frame (a little closer than starting distance), she's -5, so yes, you can land a free Bukkirabou ni Nageru. That being said, unless you're in a position to land dash j.D and carry her all the way to the corner, c.S is the preferred punish, as c.S > 5HS > Grand Viper deals more damage than a mid-screen Bukkirabou ni Nageru combo and c.S is a very potent starter for the corner bread and butter. At starting distance, neither option is quite fast enough, so you need to either 5K in place of c.S or Instant Block. If you're a little further than starting distance, you'll need to Instant Block for the punish. At long distances, it's safe on block, but in those situations it's not especially difficult to just CH 6P her out of it and get an equivalent amount of damage.

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I guess I'm going to have to put up a vid somehow, because I've been delaying the f. H after 6P and the spacing of j. D seems irrelevant. 

 

 

If "Beat" doesn't go black, that means the combo is guaranteed against ALL tech options, right?

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The degree to which you can punish Bridal Express depends on the distance in which it's initiated. If you block the first active frame (a little closer than starting distance), she's -5, so yes, you can land a free Bukkirabou ni Nageru. That being said, unless you're in a position to land dash j.D and carry her all the way to the corner, c.S is the preferred punish, as c.S > 5HS > Grand Viper deals more damage than a mid-screen Bukkirabou ni Nageru combo and c.S is a very potent starter for the corner bread and butter. At starting distance, neither option is quite fast enough, so you need to either 5K in place of c.S or Instant Block. If you're a little further than starting distance, you'll need to Instant Block for the punish. At long distances, it's safe on block, but in those situations it's not especially difficult to just CH 6P her out of it and get an equivalent amount of damage.

 

Thanks! I've literally been unsure about this and just punishing for like 120-140 damage at the very best. Will hit the lab.

I guess I'm going to have to put up a vid somehow, because I've been delaying the f. H after 6P and the spacing of j. D seems irrelevant. 

 

 

If "Beat" doesn't go black, that means the combo is guaranteed against ALL tech options, right?

That is correct.

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I guess I'm going to have to put up a vid somehow, because I've been delaying the f. H after 6P and the spacing of j. D seems irrelevant.

If "Beat" doesn't go black, that means the combo is guaranteed against ALL tech options, right?

You mean 5HS, not 6HS? You can't combo off 6HS without counterhit usually

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what combos can i do after a fanfir and counter hti fanfir? so far all i got is dash 6p>2,HS or 5,HS (depending on the char) j,D>dive kick> follow up

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