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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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I had question how does BR get air thrown a player i played against always seemed to air grab after the second hit i thought BR was safe on block

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BR is not safe on block.

After br knockdown, can I get in a low air dash mixup jump s before they can get through their prejump frames? Low air dash p?

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AWAKEN, MY DUSTLOOP ACCOUNT!

 

Anyway, I have a question that's likely stupid and/or has been answered already. Is it possible to YRC a Gunflame at the end of a blockstring? I can never do it, and I can only Cancel if it's Red (50%). So I can't do it at all on block or hit or at end of a combo?

 

And Destin, it doesn't seem like enough time (for me at least) to low airdash to someone before they get up. You're better off doing off the standard safe jump options, which VR-Raiden can help you with. The man's been the best to ask for on Sol. I guarantee it.

 

EDIT: Whoops, now I can do it. So yeah, you could. Sorry Destin

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The important thing about Yellow Roman Cancels is simply that the opponent must not be in blockstun or hitstun. When you're doing a blockstring into Gun Flame, if the blockstun of the preceeding normal is large enough and performed close enough to force them to block Gun Flame, then yeah, you'll always get a Red Roman Cancel. If there's a gap in the blockstring, however, you just need to Roman Cancel during that gap to get a Yellow Roman Cancel.

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The important thing about Yellow Roman Cancels is simply that the opponent must not be in blockstun or hitstun. When you're doing a blockstring into Gun Flame, if the blockstun of the preceeding normal is large enough and performed close enough to force them to block Gun Flame, then yeah, you'll always get a Red Roman Cancel. If there's a gap in the blockstring, however, you just need to Roman Cancel during that gap to get a Yellow Roman Cancel.

Oh, I get it now. Because after knockdown with BR or VV when I land and try GF YRC it still becomes red. Many thanks, gotta get outta that FRC memory from XX seriesI guess.

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What kind of setups do people have or landing Bandit Bringer/Fanfir in neutral?

 

Also, what's the standard BB/Gun Flame confirm on normal hit?

 

Thanks much for the help.

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BR is not safe on block.

Depending on spacing, BR can be up to +3 on block! Especially because Sol has the fastest normal in the game with 5K, even if Sol is -1 or -2, most people will be scared to swing. BR is actually more prone to getting hit before it connects than being punished, unless they are instant blocking it and throwing. In which case they're scouting the BR. Getting used to occasionally throwing out BR is Sol's best way to stop people from holding up mindlessly.

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Oh okay cause it surprised me when i seen my BR and BB getting air grabbed

Bandit Bringer's best use is to catch people who are expecting Bandit Revolver in blockstrings. The change in timing and its strong hitbox make it easy to land a CH BB when people are looking for Bandit Revolver. Besides that use, its only real purpose is to go fishing for dunks and hoping it turns out well. Which sometimes will be great, and sometimes will get you killed. Bandit Bringer has too much startup to be anything other than an oke-doke move and a combo tool.

 

If Bandit Revolver is getting air grabbed, you always do it at exactly the same time and they decided to kill you for it. They can't do that on reaction every time.

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So, a common problem I've run into is that my opponents are mashing jab like they're lives depend on it during their wake up. Usually I run up and throw out a 5k, but I'm assuming I should be doing more things like 6HS  Gun Flame. But yeah most of all my opponents like to jump constantly and I'm trying to figure out if it's better for me to j.P them out the air.

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What kind of setups do people have or landing Bandit Bringer/Fanfir in neutral?

Fafnir is a move that has lots of startup, but an exceptionally strong hitbox, a fairly small hurtbox, low recovery on whiff, and tons of guard crank. You can use it to catch people hitting buttons after blocking a midrange Gunflame. You can do it after a 2S to utilize your frame advantage. Besides that, you kinda just throw Fafnir out as a midrange poke. In any situation they aren't likely to poke you out of it, Fafnir is probably a good idea.

 

You don't set up BB. Whenever you throw it out, you should assume that if the opponent isn't doing an attack already, they're going to block it at least, if not punish you hard. It's basically an overhead, slower, less awesome version of Grand Viper.

 

Also, what's the standard BB/Gun Flame confirm on normal hit?

Off midscreen Fafnir, you don't get anything on most characters. In the corner, I do something like dash 6P > (delay) Gunflame > 2HS (JC) > j.D j.D > run j.K j.D (JC) > j.S j.D > HS VV > Knockdown. Check out the first post of the combo thread for more combos, but something like that is as close to universal optimal as I care to do.

 

If you land a CH Fafnir, you get a full corner combo where you run across the entire screen, even if you were cornered when you did it. I do something like cl.S 2HS (JC) > j.D j.D > run j.K j.D (JC) > j.S j.D > HS VV > Knockdown.

Off BB, from far range you can only do far S 5HS (JC) > IAD j.P j.HS > HS VV > Knockdown. This combo is hard and annoying. If you are super lazy/new, you can just do BB > Fafnir and call it a day. If you're close enough (which about 70% of the time you are) then you can do running 5K or cl.S > 2HS (JC) > j.S (JC) > j.S j.HS > HS VV > Knockdown. The cl.S makes the combo much more consistent if you can get close enough.

 

So, a common problem I've run into is that my opponents are mashing jab like they're lives depend on it during their wake up. Usually I run up and throw out a 5k, but I'm assuming I should be doing more things like 6HS Gun Flame. But yeah most of all my opponents like to jump constantly and I'm trying to figure out if it's better for me to j.P them out the air.

Okay so the problem with 6HS to catch meaty low jab is that you can't really do it as a running meaty without it being super predictable and losing frame advantage on the Gunflame. If I really want to call out mashing, I do meaty far S (5HS RC BB for combo) or 2D Gunflame (CH combo). You can also do running 2K/2P out of throw range, but the timing is really strict on the spacing. Meaty 2S is solid, and you can convert into far S as a CH link. Meaty 2S outside of throw range, run up 5K will scare people from mashing usually. It will also catch most characters jumping and you can confirm into a full combo.

You can even just do meaty Runflame (running Gunflame) to make people block on wakeup, but you lose frame advantage afterwards. If you get a CH, you get a free dash up 2HS (JC) > j.S (JC) > j.S j.HS > HS VV > Knockdown.

Any real meaty or safe jump will catch people holding up on their wakeup. Bandit Revolver is mostly used to counter "fuzzy jumping," which is basically "block on wakeup for a bit then hold up back because Sol sucks at punishing jump back at mid range." That's when Bandit Revolver is your best option to punish it. It's not a good option because of its high startup, but it's an option that they have to respect that meshes well with Gunflame pressure. They want to hold up because of Gunflame, which is why BR will hit even the best players sometime.

Sol also can catch people holding up back from close range with 5K after a blocked 2P, 2K, 5P, or 2S. 2K > 5K will automatically catch people in the air instead of grounded jump startup (because 2K is -1 on block), which is good for your combo options. You can simulate this situation by delaying your 5K slightly after 2P, 5P, or 2S. Good players won't hold up back in this situation for long once you've proven you can stop it; they'll more likely go to throwing you out of your frame trap before holding up back. At the very least, they'll start FD'ing when they jump back, and you can convert that sort of situation into them losing tons of meter and bringing them back to the ground to block a Gunflame or whatever.

Honestly though, meaty 2K or safe jump j.S should be enough for people holding up back. You can just 2K 2S 2D BR people until they realize "Oh I have to block on wakeup."

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Off midscreen Fafnir, you don't get anything on most characters. In the corner, I do something like dash 6P > (delay) Gunflame > 2HS (JC) > j.D j.D > run j.K j.D (JC) > j.S j.D > HS VV > Knockdown. Check out the first post of the combo thread for more combos, but something like that is as close to universal optimal as I care to do.

 

 

If you land a CH Fafnir, you get a full corner combo where you run across the entire screen, even if you were cornered when you did it. I do something like cl.S 2HS (JC) > j.D j.D > run j.K j.D (JC) > j.S j.D > HS VV > Knockdown.

 

 

 

You are losing potential damage on both those combos, at least against heavy characters. After some time in the lab, this are the combos I'm using now:

 

· Fafnir > 6P, Gunflame > 2HS, jc.D, j.D > Fafnir > dash > K (1 hit), 6P, 6HS, HSVV > TO [136 dmg on Potemkin]

 

· CH Fafnir > dash > Gunflame > 2HS, jc.D, j.D > Fafnir > dash > K (1 hit), 6P, 6HS, HSVV > TO [146 dmg on Potemkin]

 

If you land a non-CH Fafnir midscreen, your best choice IMO is to dash and K on their recovery.

At this point, if they don't tech you can confirm into a DL combo for some minor damage.

If they recover with FD, you get free pressure in the corner.

If they tech, but don't FD on the air, they are eating a reset for beefy damage:

 

· Fafnir > recovery > K, 2HS, jc.D, jc.D, j.D > j.D, j.D > Fafnir > 6P, HS, jc.D, Kudakero > 6P, 6HS, HSVV > TO [46 + 197 dmg on Potemkin]

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You are losing potential damage on both those combos, at least against heavy characters. After some time in the lab, this are the combos I'm using now:

 

· Fafnir > 6P, Gunflame > 2HS, jc.D, j.D > Fafnir > dash > K (1 hit), 6P, 6HS, HSVV > TO [136 dmg on Potemkin]

 

· CH Fafnir > dash > Gunflame > 2HS, jc.D, j.D > Fafnir > dash > K (1 hit), 6P, 6HS, HSVV > TO [146 dmg on Potemkin]

I'm like 98% sure that those combos involving two Fafnirs are character specific because you have to hit them before they actually fall to the ground. And yes, I'm aware the Fafnir combo isn't optimal, but it's prorated anyway so I do a combo that works on every character. Especially since they're new, I'd say just stay away from the super character specific Sol stuff like double Gunflame RC combos and just learn Dust Loop.

 

And yeah, chasing after them with dashing 5K is good, but if you weren't near the corner they recover pretty far away so you'll actually get hit by stuff like Eddie air dash j.K before you even get next to them if you are trying to run up and anti-air 5K underneath their tech spot.

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They are pretty character specific.

I haven't had the time to mess around with the whole cast, just throwing some ideas out there.

 

DL is the way to go as far as the beginning of the learning curve goes, but on the long run you are giving away free damage on most of the cast.

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Depending on spacing, BR can be up to +3 on block! Especially because Sol has the fastest normal in the game with 5K, even if Sol is -1 or -2, most people will be scared to swing. BR is actually more prone to getting hit before it connects than being punished, unless they are instant blocking it and throwing. In which case they're scouting the BR. Getting used to occasionally throwing out BR is Sol's best way to stop people from holding up mindlessly.

Many many moves, if hit in their later frames, change from unsafe on block to safe.  In his circumstance as he was being thrown, I had to dispel his idea that the move is always safe.

 

And the purpose of BB is to be incredibly awesome and incredibly sol.  Seriously, using it a bit here and there (or more than that if you have enough chest hair) will force your opponent to look for it in neutral, which takes away some of their mental resources, already a win.  Jump over some long range pokes that are giving you trouble! YRC it near the end and do mixups!  Feel the glory of two BB in a row if you hit CH!  My only wish was that it didn't have proration.

 

Also, it's generally a good idea to remove early 6p's from combos as much as possible, those guys are damage sappers.

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Yeah, against Ky my boy is either mashing 2p  or he's Vapor Thrusting on wake up, and he does...some pretty random stun dippers and ride the lightnings. I'm trying to work on a punish to stun dipper and ride the lightning.

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Yeah, against Ky my boy is either mashing 2p or he's Vapor Thrusting on wake up, and he does...some pretty random stun dippers and ride the lightnings. I'm trying to work on a punish to stun dipper and ride the lightning.

I guess you should ask about this in the match up thread.

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Yeah, against Ky my boy is either mashing 2p  or he's Vapor Thrusting on wake up, and he does...some pretty random stun dippers and ride the lightnings. I'm trying to work on a punish to stun dipper and ride the lightning.

You can use sweep to beat both 2P mash and VT on wake up.

 

Also, 6P is a great anti-poke tool in general.

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I've been trying to do the Dustloop for an hour now, and linking the two J.D's together I'm starting to get, but then I can't get the Kudakero to connect because the rising J.D pushes me too far away. Can anyone tell me how this shit works and how I can land this.

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Which combo route are you referring to? Two possible combos on mid-weights are:

 

j.D - j.D fafnir dash 6P delay 5H j.D Kudakero

 

or

 

j.D - j.D dash j.D - j.K jc j.D Kudakero

 

 

If you're trying to do j.D - j.D and then j.D Kudakero, you may need to dash.

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It was a challenge mode combo; it was a j.D-j.D dash j.K-j.D.

 

 

See, I didn't see the dash because the window was so small until I saw a vid and saw it slowed down. I managed to land it tho...now I gotta learn to do it consistently.

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found a instant overhead for dragon install sol.

 

'Characters with a hop back dash can create instant overheads. Just back dash then YRC asap and quickly input an attack. If done fast enough you'll get a overhead.'

 

Sol. unfortunately his air punch and kick whiff over almost everyone,but bedman,Pot, and maybe leo(dont have him, so i cant test it out. i just know he's a big character).need more testing.

 

Dragon install sol however is different. try his back dash yrc overhead with slash and u got yourself a fucking fast overhead.

 

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10247-back-dash-hop-yrc-instant-overhead/

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I haven't tried it in matches yet but maybe something to add to the bag of tricks. Need 75% to really get much off the j.P/j.K, so best if it will kill probably. Back when I looked at it, I recall there was no good low option to go with it, so in the end I think it might be gimmicky.

In DI, j.D works too if I recall. DI GV is a fast enough low that reaches to complement the overhead option but don't want them to block that of course. Though he's so fast maybe just dash WT would be good enough to get them for high blocking.

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VR-Raiden, yeah thats the catch. its very meter depended, along with the fact Di sol back dash is faster, meaning the back dash hop yrc overhead can whiff if u  dont yrc the back dash along with slash extremely fast.

You can use back dash hop yrc late and  micro dash 2.d for a low or  micro dash a 2. k or 2.slash after u hit someone with j.slash(tight timing).Go into what ever floats your boat.  

 

.j.p or j.k wont work  on most of the cast. u can use back hop yrc j.k againt heavy characters with normal sol for a overhead.

 

too bad i cant get tk Di yrc down.Thats his best overhead option. too bad it doesnt seem practical.

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I haven't tried it in matches yet but maybe something to add to the bag of tricks. Need 75% to really get much off the j.P/j.K, so best if it will kill probably. Back when I looked at it, I recall there was no good low option to go with it, so in the end I think it might be gimmicky.

The trick is to do the YRC raw instead of actually doing the backdash. People can't actually tell which one you did. That leaves you close enough to do 2K > whatever.

Sol. unfortunately his air punch and kick whiff over almost everyone,but bedman,Pot, and maybe leo(dont have him, so i cant test it out. i just know he's a big character).need more testing.

You can do backdash YRC j.K > S Volcanic Viper on more characters than you think. I know it works on Sol from up close, for example.

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