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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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Speaking of that set, I've been wondering something.  Machaboo often got away with just running up on FAB's wake up and doing a point blank meaty button, even though he was in range to be thrown.  I've seen situations like that pop up a fair bit in JP footage and I usually only see a select few players (Nage's the only one I can think of at the moment) use a throw OS to deal with it.  Sol doesn't have anything throw invincible as far as I know so are these players just afraid of Sol jumping to bait the throw attempt out?  I'm pretty sure 6P/HS from Pot would shut down both the point blank meaty and a jump attempt, although the game's strict reversal window would make it difficult.

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Speaking of that set, I've been wondering something. Machaboo often got away with just running up on FAB's wake up and doing a point blank meaty button, even though he was in range to be thrown. I've seen situations like that pop up a fair bit in JP footage and I usually only see a select few players (Nage's the only one I can think of at the moment) use a throw OS to deal with it. Sol doesn't have anything throw invincible as far as I know so are these players just afraid of Sol jumping to bait the throw attempt out? I'm pretty sure 6P/HS from Pot would shut down both the point blank meaty and a jump attempt, although the game's strict reversal window would make it difficult.

Volcanic Viper RRC is throw invincible. You can also TK S VV and land a combo on CH. In addition, when people run up on your wake-up, it's practically impossible to distinguish the spacing just inside throw range and just outside. If they're outside the throw range, you get bopped. Players like FAB try to avoid putting themselves in high risk guessing games like that and just block it out. It's a style preference more than anything.

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I suppose I was trying to think of low risk/inexpensive throw invincible attacks like Order Sol's 6K.  Having said that, I should probably work on being able to just run up outside of throw range to really sell the bait.  My early attempts at that weren't especially effective and I guess I haven't revisited it since then.

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How do you guys deal with axl in his artillery stance?

 

Do you mean Sparrowhawk Stance? Assuming you do, you can use gunflame to get in since it still has a hurtbox.

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How do you guys deal with axl in his artillery stance?

Check his matchup thread there's a bit of info on it.

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When do you guys like to utilize DI? I mean, what kind of situation is the game in (such as using it as a closer) or huge comeback damage? Or is it more meter efficient to save it on YRCs/RCs? It seems like it got a huge buff over X2 but I see it rarely used or it just gets snuffed out before it CAN be used (referring to match videos I watched). Also VV DI seems to generate a ridiculous amount of meter, so do you think its worth going for simple combo to end with VV for meter if you only had 50% to start DI with, or just save up for 100% for the full combo with Tyrant Rave?

 

TL;DR- DI, what do? :psyduck:

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Sometimes you can kill with it -- which can be worth it if you don't drop the combo, but disastrous if you mess up. Usually I like to use Dragon Install when both my opponent and I are nearly dead, and the next hit wins. Then it seems like I've got a pretty big advantage in Dragon Install, and I only need one hit to win. That said, I still only do it if I'm feeling desperate, because it can swing the momentum around.

 

I don't find it very useful for big comebacks. The limited time and long recovery are very risky, and the big payoffs don't happen often enough in my experience to justify the risk.

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I almost exclusively use DI for the "finishing touch" when I have the advantage. Having 60%+ health while my opponent is at 20-30% (even more for certain characters), DI exerts an insane amount of pressure. I will often activate it after a knockdown with OTG 2K>(f.S if near corner)>DI. If you're fast enough, you can get a 5K jump cancel into a slightly delayed P.B.B, and it connects (I have to test it further to see if it really works, I only ever tried it online so it might be wonky).

DI is at it's best when you have a 100 tension. Having access to both Tyrant Rave ver. SOL WILL RAPE YO DAMN ASS! and RC's of certain moves (YRC GF, RC GV) will let you quickly take all their tension forcing them to FD and chip away at their health at a steady rate. You're screwed if they live through the onslaught or at least you don't end it with a HSVV>TO or Kudakero though.

Rarely I will use DI in more neutral situations, where both me and my opponent are basically a touch away from death and really want to get in. I will usually wait for them to do something, that could be punished by GV, VV or any other move that usually can punish something on reaction. The stop caused by DI (I don't mean the invul - that's harder to use) allows me to catch a breath and visually, 100% confirm my opponents actions and not commit to a dumb, non-YRC/PRC-able move that they could bait. In Hellfire DI lasts pretty long, so you can afford a few mistakes.

Don't DI if they have a Burst though, unless you desperately want to take it away from them, I guess.

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When do you guys like to utilize DI? I mean, what kind of situation is the game in (such as using it as a closer) or huge comeback damage? Or is it more meter efficient to save it on YRCs/RCs? It seems like it got a huge buff over X2 but I see it rarely used or it just gets snuffed out before it CAN be used (referring to match videos I watched). Also VV DI seems to generate a ridiculous amount of meter, so do you think its worth going for simple combo to end with VV for meter if you only had 50% to start DI with, or just save up for 100% for the full combo with Tyrant Rave?

 

TL;DR- DI, what do? :psyduck:

You can actually use DI after Wild Throw, then do 2HS, and air combo from there. If you manage to hit confirm a counter hit 6HS, you can also activate from there and do damage. There is a way to carry your opponent from wall to wall, but I'm still trying to figure out how I should end it and safely recover. Here's 2 example videos of what I did when I use DI:

 

From Wild Throw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0HldymGDo

 

From counter hit 6HS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqatOd8FYk8

 

Keep in mind that your opponent can still burst out of your DI combos, so I would say only use it when they've already used burst. That's all I know for now. Hope this helps.

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You can actually use DI after Wild Throw, then do 2HS, and air combo from there. If you manage to hit confirm a counter hit 6HS, you can also activate from there and do damage. There is a way to carry your opponent from wall to wall, but I'm still trying to figure out how I should end it and safely recover. Here's 2 example videos of what I did when I use DI:

 

From Wild Throw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0HldymGDo

 

From counter hit 6HS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqatOd8FYk8

 

Keep in mind that your opponent can still burst out of your DI combos, so I would say only use it when they've already used burst. That's all I know for now. Hope this helps.

if you feel or know when they are gonna burst you can end your combos with P.B.B to stop their burst.

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Watching Jonio's stream right now makes me think are we, like... dead?

The Blitz Shield change seems horrible for us. I just saw Elphelt getting rejected for throwing a grenade at what I'm pretty sure was throw-safe range. The thing I really want to see now is whether the reject happens when you ground-Blitz and the opponent is airborne (like a typical GF YRC empty jump low scenario). I'm worried we might lose what's basically our last good mixup outside of the WT threat.

EDIT
So... now that I calmed down a little bit and all that good stuff. It might not be so bad. Sol still looks strong. CH Fafnir carry will be dearly missed, but outside of that things seem fine. The revamp of Blitz Shield certainly does affect the gameplay, but since introducing BS in the first place didn't completely kill meaty attacks, the new Blitz Shield won't be half as bad as it could be for the most part.

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Sol is almost the same.

Fafnir work the same as before.

The extra frame buffer is a great bless.

c.S is really easy to combo into.

Especially after a CH VV.

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Something I'll point out now because I didn't know if it meant anything at the time, but now I'm pretty sure it does.

During Location Test #3, there were a few tweets regarding Sol changes, but most of them pertained to stuff we already knew, they were more just comments on how the changes feel etc. One of the tweets mentioned something about mid-screen CH 6P > Bandit Bringer being possible. As many of you may know, mid-screen CH 6P > Bandit Bringer is already possible, you just have to delay it, so I was thinking that maybe you didn't have to delay it anymore or something like that. Come full release, someone in the Sol chat tells me that they saw CH 6P > Bandit Bringer, Bandit Bringer, which is normally not possible because the first Bandit Bringer doesn't hit high enough. I'm looking for recent footage now to confirm, but if this is the case, we'll have at least one new, finalised change since Location Test #2. Mind you, what exactly that change is remains to be seen....

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Here Mugen got a Fafnir CH for a corner to corner combo, so it seems the nerf to Fafnir CH will mostly affect positioning for the followup and will probably have to start with 5K depending on the characters hitbox I suppose. While 32 minutes into the match I believe he goes for a 6P (CH) > BB combo with no delay before going into BB, also after the combo he goes for GF (YRC) oki but I notice he performed air FD blocking before going for the mix up attempt. I'm curious, could that be used to counter the new BS properties versus projectiles?

 

EDIT: 

 

What I believe to be another example of 6P (CH) > BB with no delay between the cancel into BB and also this one.

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Has anyone experimented with dash momentum GF (YRC)? I don't recall anyone mentioning it. 
 

If you input GF while microdashing you can get a "different" version of Gunflame, that unusually propels Sol forward. While by itself not so useful, it gets interesting when YRC'd. 

Usually YRC reduces dash momentum by quite a bit (though, on a side note, PRC doesn't... interesting), but not in this case. After YRCing a dash momentum Gunflame (either during startup or early active frames) you get a move that either propels Sol forward very fast (kind of Fafnir speed and range, but AFTER YRC), or does the same with a Gunflame on top. 

While of course both are throwable if done in throw range or during YRC startup, the Gunflame on top variant is much safer for approaches, as at even minimal range, Gunflame's blockstun prevents a throw. Invul reversals beat both, of course, but the 2nd variant is also good for baits, as it allows to block normally while moving forward, since it's not considered a skid. 
Some example uses I found include a fullscreen traveling BB or Fafnir (dash GF>YRC>BB/Fafnir) using this to get GF as crossup (at proper range by BBing or just jumping), covering for throw/WT attempts with GF (basically works like Fafnir>YRC>WT setups, only giving you momentum before and after YRC and the Gunflame on top, that doesn't interfere with WT connecting in range, but makes it safe when whiffed). Also might make for some cool RS setups and great throw baits against people jumping out of the way of Gunflame, but I gotta test that later. Maybe more, I can't remember now. 

I do realize all this stuff is just a gimmick, but I'm curious if anyone else noticed it and got some mileage out of it. 

EDIT
Also, this makes GF>YRC>f.S>GF connects>BB a thing while moving forward. Pretty fun. 

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Dash GF is used in certain combos and for crossup GF YRC gimmicks, been pretty known already but it's worth mentioning.

Yeah, I do recall some crossup GF setups I saw once where I didn't quite grasp how they move this way. I'm still really curious of using it in more neutral situations, to close the distance quickly in certain matchups (Ky and Faust come to mind, since I play them a lot lately). Seems a better alternative for safely closing distance than just GF YRC and dashing in afterwards.

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On midscreen BR knockdown, it allows for good GF YRC oki.

You can forward jump over for j.K, empty 2K/2D, low back airdash j.K, low back airdash WT, etc.

You can BB, tk.BR, IAD, dash jump for crossup GF.

You can neutral jump for spacing unthrowable/unjumpable empty 2K/2D, or low airdash j.S, etc. Especially good if 2D can be converted to GF RC combos.

I use it occasionally to quickly get within GF YRC > WT range.

Haven't used it that much for neutral but I could see it being good for sniping with f.S into big damage, as long as you don't get smacked out of GF.

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You can actually use DI after Wild Throw, then do 2HS, and air combo from there. If you manage to hit confirm a counter hit 6HS, you can also activate from there and do damage. There is a way to carry your opponent from wall to wall, but I'm still trying to figure out how I should end it and safely recover. Here's 2 example videos of what I did when I use DI:

 

From Wild Throw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0HldymGDo

 

From counter hit 6HS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqatOd8FYk8

 

Keep in mind that your opponent can still burst out of your DI combos, so I would say only use it when they've already used burst. That's all I know for now. Hope this helps.

 

hey is thier another way to do the wild throw DI comboes on light chars? was trying it on elph and after the BB run S jump D doesnt hit. shes to low :(

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What are some good Burst safe/bait ground/air combos I can employ?

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On ground, delay gatling 2P and anytime you 2S are safe if I recall.

In air, delay gatling j.P is safe.

My 2 latest youtube vids show some more situational ones.

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