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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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I was doing some of my own research last night regarding Axl's reversal super because things like this being un-punishable upset me.

I found a few ways around it. The most consistent was just jumping over the 2nd swing of the super and coming down with any button (j.D seemed best for damage) but you need to make sure you FD on the way up to shrink your hitbox.

 

I had time so I made a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgGnV9bz8PY

 

I lost the sound somehow so I smashed something random in there with Youtube's sound replacement-y sort of thing.

 

I'm also aware that if Axl had 50 meter, he might as well 623S > RC but I've seen this super come up a couple of times myself so here we go.

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Does anyone have any good CH 6P setups? Outside the standards like just staggering it randomly in strings or shimmy-ing? I want to land this thing on people consistently. 

 

 

-Kimosabae 

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The most reliable ones would probably be mixing it up with WT, anti-airing the stuff it works on and just counter-poking in general. CH confirming it is a bit tricky though.

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CH 6P is rather easy to confirm if you train yourself to react to it, not to sound pompous or anything. 

 

Midscreen CH 6P > BB or CH 6P > recover > dash 5K is very consistent. In the corner it is still very easy because you can chain out of the normal so late with 5H/2H or Gunflame.

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^ It's once you become more ready for CH 6P it's really scary to see how much you are rewarded for it lol

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I don't know, was it mentioned earlier or not, but you can escape Potemkin's Giganter reversal by right-timed 6H (safejump OS, man). And on top of that, it will be not just 6H, but CH 6H!

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Can any veteran Sol's explain to my why Karinchu does way different combos than the other high dan Sols? Specifically the corner dash gun flame and BB after fafnir stuff. Is he doing 1.1 optimal stuff? I noticed he usually ends his corner combos with 6hs HSVV as well. Is the oki after the HSVV > 2k > gunflame worse than off of BR > backdash > gunflame? 

 

I'm trying to learn more Sol combos and I noticed the ones of his I tried do more damage but have less hits. This would only hurt round ending situations I think but you could always just do higher hit combos to adjust.

 

I'm just curious because I don't want to copy his combos and them be worse than the old double rep jump d stuff. 

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Can any veteran Sol's explain to my why Karinchu does way different combos than the other high dan Sols? Specifically the corner dash gun flame and BB after fafnir stuff. Is he doing 1.1 optimal stuff? I noticed he usually ends his corner combos with 6hs HSVV as well. Is the oki after the HSVV > 2k > gunflame worse than off of BR > backdash > gunflame? 

 

I'm trying to learn more Sol combos and I noticed the ones of his I tried do more damage but have less hits. This would only hurt round ending situations I think but you could always just do higher hit combos to adjust.

 

I'm just curious because I don't want to copy his combos and them be worse than the old double rep jump d stuff. 

Following Fafnir with dash GF (late in a combo) or BB (earlier in a combo) is more damaging than just going 6P>5HS that most Sol players do. I guess the reason is that it's more reliable (for example, the dustloop>Fafnir>dash GF>c.S>j.D>Kudakero extension doesn't work on Zato and Venom) and easier. 

 

As for the 6HS>HSVV ender, do you mean exactly Kudakero>6P>6HS>HSVV (TO)? If yes, then this corner ender has become more reliable in 1.1 on some of the characters, deals more damage (6HS got a damage buff) and when done right actually leaves you at a perfect spacing for GF>YRC 50/50 mixup (you don't need to backdash like when you end with 6P>BR). Sometimes it's even a good idea to cut a combo short after Fafnir or Fafnir>GF just to get this ender reliably. 

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Dash GF and Fafnir BB are both usually optimal. Double dust loop is consistent (off some starters) but not maximum damage.

Oki after H VV is technically a little worse because you have fewer frames, but if you're doing GF YRC stuff you'll probably not notice any difference at all.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

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Karinchu also likes his stun, and the 6P 6H VV ender is the optimal stun ender. There are some combos (e.g. CH fafnir combos) which guarantee enough stun so that if the okizeme following the combo hits, the opponent is guaranteed to dizzy. I think on high stun res chars it's only guaranteed if the combos are finished with 6P 6H VV.

Another thing is that HSVV, OTG 2K, GF YRC oki requires an OTG hit, which the opponent could tech from. 6P 6H ender does not give that option.

There is also the kudakero option select tech trap ender which Mocchii is using a lot.

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Yeah, I noticed that while we have plenty of combo vids and some tutorials for oki and some interesting tricks, there's nothing like a general primer available for Sol, probably because he's relatively simple and an established character. I don't think I'll be doing anything too fancy either, just recording on my PS4 while using my mic for audio.

 

Has this video been made yet? 

Just curious.

Also for the 6P>6H>HSVV ender, is there a list of who that does/does not work on?

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It works on everyone given the right setup. Usually you just need to make sure your opponent is high enough in the air and you're close enough for the VV to connect. A few characters will have the 6H whiff if you're too close (Zato and Venom, I think).

 

For example, whatever into Fafnir > dash > c.S > 6P > 6H > HVV > Kick works on everyone, but the dash spacing can mess things up.

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Has this video been made yet? 

Just curious.

Also for the 6P>6H>HSVV ender, is there a list of who that does/does not work on?

 

Sorry about this guys, I've been super busy and distracted by other things, I haven't even really been playing much GG lately. Plus every time I play, I keep rethinking what the optimal way to play Sol is in Xrd. In previous titles I think it was important to not be so YOLO, but with the ridiculous damage + stun of Xrd 1.1 and YRC potentially making everything safe, I dunno if that's the best way to play him anymore. You can kinda be YOLO if you have meter and get away with it because the reward is so high if you open your opponent up successfully.

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Sorry about this guys, I've been super busy and distracted by other things, I haven't even really been playing much GG lately. Plus every time I play, I keep rethinking what the optimal way to play Sol is in Xrd. In previous titles I think it was important to not be so YOLO, but with the ridiculous damage + stun of Xrd 1.1 and YRC potentially making everything safe, I dunno if that's the best way to play him anymore. You can kinda be YOLO if you have meter and get away with it because the reward is so high if you open your opponent up successfully.

Oh no no there's no need to apologize or anything. Actually, I was going to say that if it wasn't made, a video on general strat/neutral/etc is something I was thinking about making. Every basics video I see for Sol online is combos combos combos. IMO Sol is players can win with the simple stuff when it comes to that. It's the basics in approach/neutral that people new to GG need to maybe learn or get a different perspective on. 

Anyway I'm saying stuff you already know but yeah. I'm down to make these type of videos. I have a lot of time on my hands. Literally the only thing stopping me from making videos about general strategy or highlights of mine/others is choosing editing software and learning how to use it. 

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I just use windows movie maker myself, It's bare bones but gets the job done. It gets very tedious though when adding lots of captions.

 

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I just use windows movie maker myself, It's bare bones but gets the job done. It gets very tedious though when adding lots of captions.

 

Haven't used movie maker since I was in high school making AMVs lol. I could try that out and start putting things together.

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Haven't used movie maker since I was in high school making AMVs lol. I could try that out and start putting things together.

Steam had Sony Movie studio on sale not too long ago.  It was like $40 off.  You could try to wait for another sale like that.

It was during Steam's summer sale and I snatched that thing up lickity split.  Maybe it will get a big discount again on the next big steam sale.

 

Edit: I actually need an excuse to boot that thing up.  Can I try editing your project?

Edited by Solless

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I'm having some trouble understanding the math behind the Gunflame frame data. I'm trying to understand exactly how to make it stronger for pressure, but I don't really get the way it should be counted. 

Gunflame is listed as 20 frames startup, which is easy enough to understand, and 50 recovery, which I get too. But what does active frames 9(1)9(1)9(1)9 mean? I understand that the attack level and damage change every 9 frames, but what about the "(1)" then? 

Also, this would mean that a point blank Gunflame would be -36 if I'm counting it right, which is insane, it never feels quite this bad on block, while the latest possible GF would be -4 (as listed in the frame data). Am I right? 

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Gun Flame hits three times and the numbers in parenthesis are the amount of frames in between each consecutive hit.

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Gun Flame hits only once. The number in parentheses denotes that there is one inactive frame between each group of 9 active frames. Once any active frame actually hits, the projectile cannot hit again.

I believe the -4 is for the case where GF hits on the first possible active frame (i.e. 20f). If it hits late, it is usually significantly plus on block.

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I'm having some trouble understanding the math behind the Gunflame frame data. I'm trying to understand exactly how to make it stronger for pressure, but I don't really get the way it should be counted. 

Gunflame is listed as 20 frames startup, which is easy enough to understand, and 50 recovery, which I get too. But what does active frames 9(1)9(1)9(1)9 mean? I understand that the attack level and damage change every 9 frames, but what about the "(1)" then? 

Also, this would mean that a point blank Gunflame would be -36 if I'm counting it right, which is insane, it never feels quite this bad on block, while the latest possible GF would be -4 (as listed in the frame data). Am I right? 

Let's go, step by step. 20 Startup frames, 30 Active Frames (For Sol), 50 Recovery frames. Assuming the first (Level 2) projectiles hits at the earliest possible frame, the opponent will be stuck for 13 frames. Now here's the catch, that value you see on the framedata is actually how long it takes to Sol to perform the whole animation on neutral, where all 4 flames come out. In other words, Sol needs 50 frames to perform Gunflame.

So what if the first flame hits and the other three dont? The other three will be skipped, along with their respective active frames. I can explain this better if you wish, but Sol needs 29 frames to perform a point-blank Gunflame.

Now out of these 29 frames, 20 are the startup (remember that startup takes in account the very first active frame). So Gunflame will hit at the 20th frame and inflict a 13 frame blockstun on the opponent, but Sol still needs 9 frames to recovery. Thus: Recovery - Blockstun = Advantage, 9 frames - 13 frames = -4 Frames of Advantage.

Hope this clears everything up and anyone feel free to correct any mistakes!

Edited by Tong

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I don't think the above explanation is correct. Instead, I believe this is what happens:

The recovery of Gun Flame is 50 frames, which means (as explained in the above post) that Sol recovers 50 frames after the move starts. If the move hits on the first possible active (20), it will be a Lv2 attack. When a projectile hits, the projectile and the opponent (but not Sol!) will first go into hitstop for Lv2, which is 13 frames. Then, the opponent enters blockstun for Lv2, which is also 13 frames.

The opponent will spend a total of 26 frames in hitstop and hitstun, starting from frame 20, so the opponent recovers on frame 46. Sol recovers on frame 50, so the frame advantage is 46 - 50 = -4.

For regular attacks, both characters usually have the same hitstop, so the frame advantage can be calculated from stun alone. For projectiles, the hitstop needs to be calculated separately since only the defender goes into hitstop.

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You are right, I forgot to consider hitstop for projectiles but I dont think Sol recovers in 50 frames, that's almost a second. Plus I counted exactly 50 frames for Gunflame, from start to finish, using one of my replays captured at 60fps. "Total 50 frames" means how much time it takes to perform the move alone, because it's hard calculate actual recovery due to it being variable.

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Thanks, Tong, your explanation is on point. I thought that the recovery is 50 frames (pretty absurd now that I think about it), not the whole length of the move. I can also confirm that from the frame it starts up to the frame Sol can move again, lasts 50 frames (you can check things like that without a captured replay, just use the in-game replays and skip by frame function). It makes a lot more sense now. 

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