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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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I don't think the above explanation is correct. Instead, I believe this is what happens:

The recovery of Gun Flame is 50 frames, which means (as explained in the above post) that Sol recovers 50 frames after the move starts. If the move hits on the first possible active (20), it will be a Lv2 attack. When a projectile hits, the projectile and the opponent (but not Sol!) will first go into hitstop for Lv2, which is 13 frames. Then, the opponent enters blockstun for Lv2, which is also 13 frames.

The opponent will spend a total of 26 frames in hitstop and hitstun, starting from frame 20, so the opponent recovers on frame 46. Sol recovers on frame 50, so the frame advantage is 46 - 50 = -4.

For regular attacks, both characters usually have the same hitstop, so the frame advantage can be calculated from stun alone. For projectiles, the hitstop needs to be calculated separately since only the defender goes into hitstop.

This is the correct explanation.
(Although the opponent and Sol recover on frames 47 and 51 respectively, not 46 and 50. For the opponent, frame 20 is the hit detection frame, frames 21-33 are hitstop, frames 34-46 are blockstun, opponent returns to neutral on frame 47. Sol has 50 frames of recovery and returns to neutral on frame 51.)

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Anyone ever figure out how the GF YRC IAD crossup in the corner works? I managed to get it to work one time in training mode, but I can't replicate it.

Delay 6HS on 6P> 6HS> GFF> GF (YRC).

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Can someone educate me on using Bandit Revolver in blockstrings? I see the Japanese Sols use this a lot. What's the mindset behind this? I would guess it's to beat jump out attempts and get some safe jump oki going, and I see it that you can also combo from it on counterhit but isn't it punishable on instant block? Is it one of those things where you throw it out there and if it works it works and if not you get punished for it? I can't see why it would be good if that's the case... 

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Can someone educate me on using Bandit Revolver in blockstrings? I see the Japanese Sols use this a lot. What's the mindset behind this? I would guess it's to beat jump out attempts and get some safe jump oki going, and I see it that you can also combo from it on counterhit but isn't it punishable on instant block? Is it one of those things where you throw it out there and if it works it works and if not you get punished for it? I can't see why it would be good if that's the case... 

Remember that Sol has a three frame standing kick, which is faster than most people can interrupt even if he's slightly disadvantageous. Also, depending on spacing, you can actually be plus on block or get a combo without CH, similar to Narukami's Raging Lion.

People are so antsy about Gunflame that most won't be looking to punish BR with IB/ interrupt 6P unless you're spamming it. People need to jump vs Gunflame. They can't jump against Bandit Revolver. You can absolutely get away with the occasional Bandit Revolver against strong players, and you can even next level their 6P attempt with Bandit Bringer, which will CH most 6Ps.

Sol basically is forced to do BR at certain blockstring points to catch jumping out, but it's more of a conditioning/desperation option, like you mentioned. It's not actually a strong option on its own, but what it can do for your pressure game in terms of forcing respect is amazing. You can also RRC for a full corner combo or mixup if you get caught with your pants down when they block.

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Yeah, I know it's not something you spam but I just wasn't really seeing the use if it meant a punish if it was blocked every time, but what you said about them not looking to IB it while looking for Gun Flame makes lots of sense. Thanks for the response. 

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Does FD generally open people up to Wild Throw? Is this something I've been missing?

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Does FD generally open people up to Wild Throw? Is this something I've been missing?

There's no real technical justification for it besides a mindset of some players that when they FD they keep blocking. FD of course shows that they're blocking and not hitting buttons.

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Well, their blockstun is longer. 

 

But WT attempts might be contingent on them being conscious of that. 

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Well, their blockstun is longer. 

 

But WT attempts might be contingent on them being conscious of that. 

You have to leave a 7f gap after they leave blockstun to tick WT, and FD pushes you out farther, so you don't actually have more time to tick throw because you have to run in more. It's mostly a wash unless they mess up your timing or spacing by doing FD, in which case you might whiff.

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Yeah, though you raise a good point I failed to consider, I didn't really mean to imply that the data itself made FD good WT bait. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of your first post. 

 

Anyone have the fastest/most efficient input method for doing Bandit Bringer while running without getting WT?

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Depends on when you're doing it. The method above is for a dash buffered BB. However if you're already running, this method will not work. To do a BB while you are already running, you have to shift to down forward while running, then perform BB. This prevents the overlap with WT, but it doesn't work if you were already holding forward. So you basically have to do it like this:

66, immediately shift to 3, then after running the desired distance, do 236[K].

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Allright, there are a few matchups I'd really love to see some discussion on, but people don't seem to be very active in these matchup threads, unfortunately. 

v. Zato, Sol, Venom and Elphelt. I'd be eternally grateful if people were willing to engage me on these topics here, or in the matchup thread. Zato/Sol in particular.   

 

Also, an execution problem I've been having: Super Jump IAD combos. Something Ive been struggling with for month is how different the timing feels in relation to when the opponent is grounded and I can't account for what it might be. I tried testing a recording on a Jumping dummy and it seems to be exactly the same, but whenever I execute a Super Jump IAD > Aerial, I feel I have to wait longer before AD and press a button. Is this just in my head or there something with the engine I'm not accounting for, here? 

When the opponent is grounded I can Super Jump IAD out of on hit/block without even thinking about it. It makes no sense. 

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Okay, so there's clearly at least two different dash momentum values in this game. The shortcuts given provide a nice micro dash option but the momentum is insignificant. Anyone have any ideas on how I can get these shortcuts to work and get the larger dash momentum value? Delaying them doesn't seem to work since the input buffer clears by that time. 

 

 

 

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On 19/11/2015 16:54:15, SynikaL said:

Also, an execution problem I've been having: Super Jump IAD combos. Something Ive been struggling with for month is how different the timing feels in relation to when the opponent is grounded and I can't account for what it might be. I tried testing a recording on a Jumping dummy and it seems to be exactly the same, but whenever I execute a Super Jump IAD > Aerial, I feel I have to wait longer before AD and press a button. Is this just in my head or there something with the engine I'm not accounting for, here? 

I do these Super Jump IAD combos by pressing "2" during the JC'ed move and then doing the IAD motion, feels easier and more consistent to me.

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Okay, so there's clearly at least two different dash momentum values in this game. The shortcuts given provide a nice micro dash option but the momentum is insignificant. Anyone have any ideas on how I can get these shortcuts to work and get the larger dash momentum value? Delaying them doesn't seem to work since the input buffer clears by that time. 

 

 

 

You can't get more ground dash momentum without dashing longer. Air dashes have set momentum values that I believe override any previous momentum.

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1 hour ago, SynikaL said:

Okay, so there's clearly at least two different dash momentum values in this game. The shortcuts given provide a nice micro dash option but the momentum is insignificant. Anyone have any ideas on how I can get these shortcuts to work and get the larger dash momentum value? Delaying them doesn't seem to work since the input buffer clears by that time. 

Performing 2366[K] gives you a Bandit Bringer immediately after the start of a dash, which means you get the initial dash velocity without any of the deceleration. Without maintaining a dash long enough to reach maximum acceleration, carrying as much dash momentum as possible effectively boils down to minimising deceleration, which is easier said than done with a special that conflicts with another special if you start by hitting forward. Hitting down-forward as previously mentioned does work, but if you're having trouble performing Bandit Bringer after the input buffer clears but before the dash stop animation completes, you may want to try doing 6641236[K] instead. The dash momentum off that is sufficient enough for starting position CH Fafnir, dash Bandit Bringer, to put it in context.

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Couple questions:

 

Are there stun values listed anywhere? Sol's air throw seems to do a lot of Stun.

Combo Question:

 

How does one land 5D>Back Dash 6H > BB in the corner? I used to do this combo consistently but can't execute it all anymore, so I don't know if something changed since the last update or not. I know it still works since I see another so do it on a regular basis. 

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Couple questions:

 

Are there stun values listed anywhere? Sol's air throw seems to do a lot of Stun.

Stun values are normal and based on the initial damage of the attack unless specified in the frame data.

Combo Question:

 

How does one land 5D>Back Dash 6H > BB in the corner? I used to do this combo consistently but can't execute it all anymore, so I don't know if something changed since the last update or not. I know it still works since I see another so do it on a regular basis. 

You have to slightly delay the 6H or it won't combo to BB. I do a microdash to time it.

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Sol's Air Throw deals 90 stun damage, 1.5 times its base damage. The Sol frame data page includes all exceptions to standard stun damage.

(Note: You may notice that some of the values listed don't match with the values given in the 4Gamer Wiki frame data. This is because they didn't change the stun damage listing for moves with altered base damage in Ver.1.1. Despite the fact that stun damage isn't specified as a modifier anymore, I believe that's how they still function, and so I changed the values to go along with that. Some testing based on my understanding of the stun formula seems to corroborate that theory.)

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How does one constantly get the non-techable version of TK VV? My inputs are the same wether I get it or not. Is it just me needing to wait a bit longer for Sol to get into his jump frames? 

 

 

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