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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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If you want me to give the page a general runover, I could do that now that I have some free time. I actually wanted to contribute to the bulk of the wiki, but due to a packed schedule I was unable.

 

I feel that some of the entries are a little cramped and could use some touching up, and noticed that the strategy/gameplay session is a little incomplete. I've been finding some character specific combos and going over some of the old combo thread to find that some things are a inconsistent on other characters (like throw RC, GF Feint, BB), and have been screwing around with Fafnir > BB. Maybe after I do some more labwork I can give it a touch up.

I'm gonna make a wiki discussion thread, we can use it to discuss specifically things that could use updating.

 

Hey im having trouble with sols misson 37 im having trouble doing the the dj.D after 66 5S 6P 5HS JC j.D JC j.D

You mean the falling j.D? The third j.D here is the same timing as falling j.D in usual dustloop. The difference here is you're just immediately jump cancelling the first j.D into a second one, then falling j.D after that second one.

 

Like n the video VR posted back in Nov, I think, he did the GV JI. How in the hell does that only work using 2147 S? It seems crazy that that 7 cant be substituted to something else... I may just be over thinking... IDK.. But I appreciate the help

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Movement_(GGXRD)#Jump_Install

Basically you input a jump before GV and it allows an extra air option that isn't normally allowed. GV doesn't, but some moves auto Jump Install, like Bandit Revolver, so BR(RC) > airdash works without needing any special inputs for example. 2147S cancels the jump startup immediately into GV, but it keeps the jump stored throughout the combo, allowing the air backdash. c.S (JI) > 5HS > GV etc uses the jump cancel from c.S, which you cancel with 5HS before Sol actually jumps.

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So i just finished the challenge mode wit sol and now i dont kno where to start as far as learning bnbs and mixups any suggestions where to begin

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So i just finished the challenge mode wit sol and now i dont kno where to start as far as learning bnbs and mixups any suggestions where to begin

Safe jump S oki is what I'm focusing on. Force them to block, then force them to respect Wild Throw. Crossup j.k is good but people will adapt to it and stop getting hit by it.

 

You can go for the traditional safe jump/low air dash(j.P > j.K > j.D or j.S > j.HS)/empty jump low mixup, but you really have to work around stuff like people throwing you on landing or holding up.

 

VRRaiden posted a good video about fuzzy jump mixups off a deep j.S, but those are risky and you can't make that your only mixup.

 

It's totally okay to just pressure people with Gunflame, Fafnir, and normals to build meter and guard gauge. You can use that meter to convert random hits into good damage and corner carry. I mean, they have to move sometime, and you can hit them for that.

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Sorry, I have another question for you guys,

 

My main block string has been 5K > c.S > 2D (then cancel into gunflame on block and BR on hit) but it seems like 5K > c.S > 2S is a better block string since it leaves you at frame advantage (although as far as I know you can't always get a knockdown without meter since you are sometimes too far for 2D to connect). Which do you think is the better block string? Is it best to avoid using the 5K > c.S > 2D blockstring outside of when you're 100% sure the combo will hit (so mainly as a punish combo)? Cheers!

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Sorry, I have another question for you guys,

My main block string has been 5K > c.S > 2D (then cancel into gunflame on block and BR on hit) but it seems like 5K > c.S > 2S is a better block string since it leaves you at frame advantage (although as far as I know you can't always get a knockdown without meter since you are sometimes too far for 2D to connect). Which do you think is the better block string? Is it best to avoid using the 5K > c.S > 2D blockstring outside of when you're 100% sure the combo will hit (so mainly as a punish combo)? Cheers!

Um c.S> 2D is decent pressure for mashers or beginners because c.S is -4, which makes a frame trap into 2D, a strong combo starter.

But generally, you want to use more 2P, since it is +2, and more 2S. 2S is invaluable in pressure since not only is it +2, it has the benefit of having very low recovery (8), so you can do things like bully people with f.S> 2S.

Another great frame trap Sol has in this game is 2S> 6Hs, as it beats jump outs, and if they get tagged by a CH 6Hs, then you got yourself combo-video tier damage coming. Unfortunately, if they block the 6Hs, you most likely will be ending your blockstring there with something like a gunflame so keep that in mind.

Regarding specials bandit revolver is good sometimes, as it can catch jump outs. If you are me though, you will use it too much, which is bad since it is -5. GF yrc is awesome for the reason the frc was great, but regarding GF itself be careful not to use it too much, as it is unsafe and people can jump out of it. BB should be used very sparingly despite being 0 on block. It is too slow as an overhead and even worse, keen players will throw you out of it or AA you cleanly. You CAN use riot stamp and gv shenanigans with meter or without, the consequences will be very apparent if you mess up. :0

Going back to pressuring with normals, 2K is Sol's fastest low and combos into 2D and 6P, so it is a great frame trap tool. It's -1 one block, which also makes it a good wild throw setup.

And of course 5K is usually the starter of all your pressure since it is 3 frame startup.

I might have missed a bunch that the other, more experienced sol players will catch, but that is the jists of Sol pressure. It is not very strong compared to the top tiers or just pressure based characters in general, but anyone will feel uncomfortable after blocking long enough. Especially when there is wild throw lurking around the corner.

Oh yea dont forget fafnir if you can set it up in pressure. +4 on block and tumble on normal hit make it one hell of a special that they don't want to mash out of

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Um c.S> 2D is decent pressure for mashers or beginners because c.S is -4, which makes a frame trap into 2D, a strong combo starter.

But generally, you want to use more 2P, since it is +2, and more 2S. 2S is invaluable in pressure since not only is it +2, it has the benefit of having very low recovery (8), so you can do things like bully people with f.S> 2S.

Another great frame trap Sol has in this game is 2S> 6Hs, as it beats jump outs, and if they get tagged by a CH 6Hs, then you got yourself combo-video tier damage coming. Unfortunately, if they block the 6Hs, you most likeltly will be ending your blockstring there with something like a gunflame so keep that in mind.

Regarding specials bandit revolver is good sometimes. If you are me though, you will use it too much, which is made since it is super minus. GF yrc is awesome for the reason the frc was great, but regarding GF itself be careful not to use it too much, as it is safe and people can jump out of it. BB should be used very sparingly. It is too slow as an overhead and even worse, keen players will throw you out of it or AA you cleanly. You CAN use riot stamp and gv shenanigans with meter or without, the consequences will be very apparent if you mess up. :0

Going back to pressuring with normals, 2K is Sol's fastest low and combos into 2D and 6P, so it is a great frame trap tool. It's -1 one block, which also makes it a good wild throw setup.

And of course 5K is usually the starter of all your pressure since it is 3 frame startup.

I might have missed a bunch that the other, more experienced sol players will catch, but that is the jists of Sol pressure. It is not very strong compared to the top tiers or just pressure based characters in general, but anyone will feel uncomfortable after blocking long enough. Especially when there is wild throw lurking around the corner.

Oh yea dont forgot fafnir if you can set it up in pressure. +4 on block and tumble on normal hit make it one hell of a special that they don't want to mash out of

What a great read definitely gonna take notes on this

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Glad to help. Also (although I forgot about it) 5Hs is good in pressure strings too, because although it is unsafe by itself, it is special and jump cancelable. Just don't be too obvious in airdash mixup-you will be sorry

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Thanks Fenrir, that is a really helpful post! I'm definitely gonna add all of that to my own Sol notes. Rather than always trying to go for a knockdown like I was doing, it may be more advantageous to always try to leave yourself at frame advantage with moves likes 2P and 2S so that you can go for frame traps. 

 

Thanks again for the help!

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Remember that just because you 2P someone it doesn't automatically mean you won't be poked out. I've done jab pressure strings and have been hit by Ky 2D. If you feel uncomfortable about continuing pressure don't be afraid to end it. Sometimes the return to neutral will be better than risking getting knocked down yourself, and hey, you might even catch them mashing at the right time for big damage.

Also, don't forget that things like VV (RC) exists. You are a Sol player, it is good to be creative :D.

Edit: always get the knockdown if it is there, btw

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I got wild thrown into instant kill online.....but i've been trying to do it, and i can't? lol How do you land this?

 

unless i'm remembering it wrong, and i landed, and he hit me?

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In order to combo into Instant Kills, you need to activate Instant Kill Mode (Gold). To do so, you require the following: Match point in your favour, opponent with flashing life (occurs when they regain character control with 20% life or less, or have 10% life or less regardless), 50% Tension or more. The 4Gamer wiki refers to these as "conclusion conditions". You'll know if you meet these conditions because the outer rim of the Tension Gauge will start glowing gold.

On activation, Instant Kill Mode (Gold) turns all but the first 5 frames and the last 5 frames of Instant Kill Mode's usual start-up into a super freeze, allowing you to easily activate in the middle of a combo. If you have 100% Tension, you can Roman Cancel Bukkirabou ni Nageru, activate Instant Kill Mode (Gold), then land Branding Breach. Note that Instant Kills themselves are also faster in this state.

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Usually going from anything that you can tick into throw (2P, 2K etc), you can do either:-

c.S (5 frames, fast, good starter, has numerous gatling options leading to and from it, good compromise of potential benefit and versatility)
2D (7 frames, low profile, counters mid and high pokes, leads into short meterless combos on CH mid-screen and full combos in the corner)
6P (9 frames, upper body invulnerability, good horizontal range, now grants full combos on CH mid-screen with co-operative screen positioning)

Also, after 2S, if the opponent expects you to dash in off frame advantage and resume pressure, 6HS is good as an anti-jump normal and leads into catastrophic damage on CH, should they try to counter-poke.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_ABNhET4OQ

 

Sendu provides an updated list of throw RC combos on the whole cast. Almost all of these break 200 damage, and they're pretty cool too.

 

He also has a video for combo recipes on Leo on his channel.

a lot of those look like you can do a dp after f+hs.. ireally dont know why japanese still arent doing that like I showed in my video... Is there a japanese site to post combo videos like the old days still?

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Apologies if this is in the wrong area, I've tried my best to find the right place.

I've poured I've the wiki guides (not new to GGX, but never involved in the competitive side compared to Capcom fighters).

I can't seem to use pokes to open up for combos. I try to poke open with 2P/c.S and end up in a blockstring half the time. Anytime I land something (say 5k>c.S>2d>vv> to) it's purely because I attacked with the intent to land it and got lucky or predicted that brief opening. Otherwise I spend half the match trying to contend with turtled corner FD pushbacks on blockstrings and lose my momentum and get bodied trying to land a 5D or WT as I can't seem to anticipate a crouch or standing cornered guard.

Edit:to clarify, I try to condition to lead to an overhead 5D or WT but either fail to condition or get too much pushback from FD

any vids/guides or assistance would be appreciated

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Hmm sounds like you have reached a fundamental problem of Sol Badguy: his mixup is sub par. I regret having to say this, but against competent opponents you will not be opening people up much through mixup-wild throw is too obvious and 5D is a bad overhead that only works on netplay or sporadically. This is where your frame traps are important. By making your opponent uncomfortable they will be more likely to make mistakes, will in turn will lead to big confirms on your end. I play people who have no problem blocking sol because his pressure, simply, is not all that scary. So don't feel bad if you don't always open people up in a blockstring- win neutral, and everything will come together.

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I hate to say I am both relieved and disheartened. I know my sol strides between mediocrity and scrub territory but I was beginning to feel I had just reached sol's limit, or that he's too commonly dealt with Ala Ken. Will definitely look into his frame traps and as always hit the lab.

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I'd advise watching vids of Machaboo's Sol. He plays very clean and effective, take extra note of his pressure and how/why he lands hits. Sol pressure typically comes in short bursts. There is a lot to it but I think watching it used effectively is the best way to learn. If any specific questions come up feel free to ask.

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I may not have the game, but I have definitely gotten used to Xrd Sol and oh my god he feels soo gooood. Definitely stiffer than Accent Core, but he feels so potent now. My game plan is just abusing neutral with f.S and get that BR knockdown, but when I get the game I am going to enjoy him.

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I'm trying J.S safejump oki off 2D and Bandit Revolver but my opponent is still hitting me with reversal Volcanic Viper. For some reason I cannot seem to safe jump properly at all. I have also tested it myself in training mode and I'm also able to reversal Volcanic Viper my way out. Any tips on this? 

 

Also, just to be clear, going for empty jump mix ups leaves me susceptible to wake up throws right? In SF4 meaties beat throws but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  

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If you are safejumping correctly no dp should be hitting you. You may not be hitting j.S low enough to the ground so that you can land and block. VV is hard to safe jump because it is fast, so it is going to take a little more practice than stuff like vapor thrust or Sin's dp.

Meaties definitely beat throws-it helps to stand a bit out of throw range to ensure that in the event you meaty is mistimed they counterhit themselves

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I'm trying J.S safejump oki off 2D and Bandit Revolver but my opponent is still hitting me with reversal Volcanic Viper. For some reason I cannot seem to safe jump properly at all. I have also tested it myself in training mode and I'm also able to reversal Volcanic Viper my way out. Any tips on this? 

 

Also, just to be clear, going for empty jump mix ups leaves me susceptible to wake up throws right? In SF4 meaties beat throws but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

First you need to take a character's wake-up timing into account: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=System_Data_(GGXRD)

Sol's is pretty standard, his face-up is a bit slower than face-down. Most knockdowns with Sol are face-up so usually that's the one you need to know the timing for, except for 2D knockdown which is face-down.

HSVV is 5f so you have to be on point with your timing to safejump it. After a 2D > BR knockdown, talk about a half step forward then forward jump into deep j.S/j.HS while blocking. You can walk forward a different amount of time depending on the character's wake-up timing. Dashing neutral jump is also useful for safejumps, but for learning the timing try walking first.

Yes, empty jump stuff is susceptible to being thrown the frame you land. That's why it's not very effective unless they have a high advantage Gun Flame (YRC) on top of them, which is only possible in corner (and even here is it susceptible to being thrown, but the opponent is often less inclined to try it). Corner also gives you the option of spacing yourself outside throw range with empty jump 2K, while still having time to do a meaty safe jump. At midscreen it's difficult to create that scenario and get good rewards off it.

If you're timing it so the empty jump low is meaty, it's not hard for the opponent to block since they can tell you don't have time to get a meaty jump-in, you'll have to either meaty upon landing or do an airdash which is susceptible to reversals.

The effectiveness of empty jump within throw range depends on how the opponent decides to defend against you're safejump oki. In a lot of higher level matches you'll see the Sol's don't thrown out of it, that's because a lot of times they choose to fuzzy guard/jump in favor of using throw or anti-air/throw option-selects. Against people who don't deal with safejump oki well, you can get away with delay airdash j.S to hit them for attempting a throw without option-selecting it with a fast or invul anti-air normal. If they use anti-air/throw OS, delay airdash j.P can beat some of those since it's faster and Sol's hurtbox moves up, but that typically won't hit crouching. Delay double jump can also allow whiff punishing, but it depends on what attack was used for the throw whiff. Delay airdash > j.VV should beat out pretty much any throw whiff, but risky without meter to RC.

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