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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Combo Thread

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Good stuff, there are various RC points that give an easy IK opportunity when you have 100%. The only advantage of Fafnir -> IK activate -> IK is that it only requires 50% Tension or more, which makes it more practical in a sense.

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This is true, but from experience I've found it impossible to do xx > Fafnir > IK mode > IK from lengthier combos due to what feels like increased decreased tumble time. It may just be my poor execution but I've never been succesful. I'll do standard 2x rep D-loops into Fafnir > IK Mode > IK, and just have the opponent recover before the IK connects, when I can do it fine from stuff like 5D> Homing dash 5H > 2H > BB, Fafnir > IK Mode > IK, or other combos that are shorter.

This adds to the benefit of working when the opponent is far from 20% HP remaining.

 

I've even tried stuff like xx > Kudakero(2) (RC) Bandit Bringer, Fafnir > IK Mode > IK, but after anything past a single rep D-Loop I'm not sure it's possible.

 

Do we know if tumble time scales with combo length?

 

 

Another point to add is DI combos out of corner 5D that I've witnessed Karinchu pulling in recent footage.

 

5D > Homing Dash 5H > 2H > DI, 5H > GF, BB, BB, dash 6P > 5H (JC) j.D > Kudakero |> dash j.D > Kudakero |> dash 5H > TR, IAD j.S > j.K > j.D > PBB (~250+)

 

Early Burst Bait version:

5D > Backdash 6H > DI, dash 5H > GF, BB, BB, dash 6P > 5H (JC) j.D > Kudakero |> dash j.D > Kudakero |> dash 5H > TR, IAD j.S > j.K > j.D > PBB (~250+)

 

If they burst before DI startup or presumably before 6H, burst whiffs > fuck 'em up.

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There are very few practical combos with only 50% that lead to IK. That being said, it's tough to hit even on early confirms, which is probably why you don't see players go for it that often.

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Do we know if tumble time scales with combo length?

It's hard to gleam just based on when and how we typically land Fafnir in combos anyway, but it would appear so. Some starters let you land Branding Breach even if Instant Kill Mode (Gold) super freeze kicks in as they've already hit the ground, but others don't let you do it even if happens while they're still noticably airborne.

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Do we have any 1.1 specific combos? I don't think there was any significant change to anything that would open new combo routes, but perhaps something small? Does CH 2HS combo into BB now?

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Last night while looking at DAAs I noticed CH 2HS > double BB combos on Potemkin already but I think it's just due to his size and weight. May only work on him in 1.0. But yeah should be universal in 1.1.

Other than that, I can't think of anything changing about combos except damage. DI Fafnir I guess, for what it's worth.

I remember rumors of ground midscreen CH 6P > double BB but we'll have to see, I haven't seen it land yet.

c.S reaches higher(?) now so it's easier to connect with it on air hits supposedly.

With CH Fafnir tumble shortened, maybe RS won't combo anymore but that was hardly practical anyway.

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I think the Kudakero changes may have mild effects on corner combos as well, as I see a lot more players go for Kudakero in combos where they would not in 1.1. That may just be an effect of longevity, where players are becoming more confident in doing technical stuff as the game evolves, but it's worth testing.

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As far as multiple BB's in a row go, I once or twice managed to land three on Ramlethal, but the first one had to be a midair counter hit. Nothing practical, but it sure is fun to hear the despair in the voice of your opponent as you hit him with the same, slow-ass special move three times in a row. Guilty Gear incarnate.

 

Sounds like Sol's combo game is the same it was, only a little less damaging here and there (5K 90% will hurt in the long run, it might be worth it to try to get in with other moves more). I just hope that DI Fafnir will be viable in combos, with it's decreased proration and increased P.B.B. damage.

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I think yes, the new 2HS CH property makes 2HS CH -> BB a thing, which then leads to double BB combos IIRC.

Last night while looking at DAAs I noticed CH 2HS > double BB combos on Potemkin already but I think it's just due to his size and weight. May only work on him in 1.0. But yeah should be universal in 1.1.

 

If we're talking about ground hit, it actually works on all non-lightweights already, you just need to delay the first Bandit Bringer slightly. Air hit is another matter altogether. What will definitely be different is the damage it deals, assuming the removed proration stuck.

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There are very few practical combos with only 50% that lead to IK. 

I disagree with this. In the corner, you can combo Fafnir > IK from 2K, Wild Throw, and low air dash overhead. You can also combo it from 5D even at very high scaling levels if you're feeling ballsy. I think Sol has the most practical IK combos of the entire cast.

 

I agree that people don't do it because it's tight timing, but I actually think that the IK combos are super practical and that people should do them way more often, especially off 2K and WT because initial proration can make kill combos at 20% not otherwise possible.

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Those are three routes, which to me doesn't qualify as a lot (I don't count 5D because literally everyone in the cast can do that). Plus as Sol, you usually have to use meter to get a setup where you can effectively mix between those three options. Plus their life usually has to already be pretty low in order to get them down to where you need them for the IK combo to work, especially if they are not already in Hellfire.

 

I initially thought the same, that Sol would be an IK king, but truth is that the situations just don't come up all that often and/or the risk isn't worth it. If you screw up, you can lose the whole round right there.

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FYI this works on everyone. Proof of concept video to come later.

Thanks I went to try this again and finally did get it to work on Sol, it's super tight. So I guess it's just even harder on non light weights. I think my issue was not getting IK out as soon as possible after activation.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Well 1.1 is out now. I only had a few minutes with it, but air/tumble hit f.S > 5HS work on Faust now :D

and in general it's very obvious his air hutbox reaches farther down. WT > 5HS > 2HS doesn't cause 2HS to whiff almost at all for example.

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With the Ver.1.10 changes, CH 2HS > Bandit Bringer x2 is no longer possible on ground hit, but is now possible on air hit. If we get a sufficiently high air hit, it is one of our best starters, leading to a potential 285 damage on Sol.

Also, thanks to the 90% proration on 5K, we now need to go fully optimal if we want to break 200 damage meterlessly and still get knockdown in the corner.

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In 1.1 I found that the most optimal combo route for the corner is 

5K/c.S > 6P > delay 5HS/2HS (JC) > [j.D, falling j.D] x2 |> (delay) Fafnir, dash 5S > 6P > 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi

I've so far only tested this on Ky and Ram, on Ky this does 222 damage. Is there any more optimal stuff? The combos that are written in the opening post under "Corner Mid-Starters" all do less damage.

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The combos in the fist post are most likely not yet updated for 1.1 changes, and with Fafnir and 6HS damage increased, some numbers would likely change.

Most high damage corner combos I saw since 1.1 released involve either Fafnir > Bandit Bringer (on the characters it works on) or Fafnir > c.S > 6P > GF. I don't have the numbers though, I barely played since 1.05 dropped.

On a side note, did something change about I-No and Millia's hurbox? I saw people landing dustloop into Fafnir on them far more frequently lately.

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Yeah I haven't done anything in first post for 1.1 yet. Honestly the first post is very low on my priorities because keeping a full list of up to date optimal combos is a full time job lol. So if you are comparing to those, they are by no means all optimized for max damage, at this point they can serve as a practical starting point.

1.1 didn't gain new routes (CH 2HS is most different starter) just changed damages and made some double Fafnir combos optimal. The input buffer improvement makes going for optimal routes much more practical though.

We are actually working to get a vid of optimal routes out within the next few days. Details can be seen in the character specifics thread 2nd post.

I haven't noticed any helpful hurtbox changes except Faust but I'll look into those.

Edit:

In a recent vid I did see a hj.IAD j.K j.D Kudakero both hits > dash c.S j.D Kudakero ender on Leo. I think this was made possible by the improved c.S hitbox.

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In 1.1 I found that the most optimal combo route for the corner is 

5K/c.S > 6P > delay 5HS/2HS (JC) > [j.D, falling j.D] x2 |> (delay) Fafnir, dash 5S > 6P > 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi

I've so far only tested this on Ky and Ram, on Ky this does 222 damage. Is there any more optimal stuff? The combos that are written in the opening post under "Corner Mid-Starters" all do less damage.

 

c.S, 6P, HS, jc.D, j.D > Fafnir > BB > dash c.S, jc.D, Break > 6P, HS, BR [228 dmg]

 

Much easier and lenient than a double dloop rep. It's working really consistently for me.

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c.S, 6P, HS, jc.D, j.D > Fafnir > BB > dash c.S, jc.D, Break > 6P, HS, BR [228 dmg]

 

Much easier and lenient than a double dloop rep. It's working really consistently for me.

 

You can fit a 2H instead of a c.S in there. On Sol, you get:

 

c.S > 6P > 5H > JC > j.D > j.D > Fafnir > BB > dash > 2H > JC > j.D > Kudakero > 6P > 5H > BR [230 dmg].

 

The 2H can be tricky though -- you have to catch your opponent high enough. Too low and you'll be pushed further back and it may not combo.

 

 

Also, was messing with a throw combo in the corner on Faust:

 

Throw > RC > Jump > Land > Fafnir > BB > Jump > j.D > j.D > Fafnir > c.S > 6P > 6H > VV > TO [210 dmg].

 

I tried it on Sol, but I couldn't get the VV at the end to connect.

 

 

5D combo I didn't see on the list:

 

5D > Homing Dash > 5H > 2H > BB > Fafnir > Dash > GF > Dash > c.S > j.D > Kudakero > 6P > BR [178 dmg]

 

or

 

5D > Homing Dash > 5H > 2H > BB > Fafnir > Dash > GF > Dash > c.S > j.D > Kudakero > 6P > 6H > VV > TO [184 dmg]

 

Does good damage, and should work on the characters that BB > Fafnir > BB doesn't connect on.

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So I am not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I am having trouble finding relevant information. What would be an example of some frame traps to use in the beginning of a match in order to condition your opponent? 

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After quite some time in the planning stages, a version update and numerous changes to my understanding of what Sol's maximum damage actually is, I present to you a video of high damage and stun combos.

As before, the combos shown in the video were mostly routed and tested by me and recorded by VR-Raiden, but a couple of the combos are a collaberative effort between the two of us this time round, routing wise.

Combo #1 - (starting position) CH Fafnir, dash Bandit Bringer, dash 5HS (JC) > j.D, falling j.D |> Fafnir, dash c.S > 6P > 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi
(dash Fafnir performed during recording, bypassing the need to dash for c.S)

Combo #1 demonstrates current maximum damage off a CH Fafnir. For those of you that were worried about CH Fafnir's reduced tumble time in Ver.1.10, don't worry, Sol can still travel ridiculously far and score a full combo with the help of some good, old dash momentum. Thanks to the increased damage on 6HS and Fafnir in Ver.1.10, it is now more optimal to go for double Fafnir combos than performing a full air combo into Kudakero and going from there.

Combo #2 - (corner) Ground Throw (RC) > Neutral or Forward Jump |> Fafnir, (dash) Gun Flame, 5HS (JC) > j.D, falling j.D |> Fafnir, dash c.S > 6P > 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi

Combo #2 shows an alternative corner Ground Throw (RC) combo for characters that cannot be hit by a delayed Bandit Bringer deep in the corner. May is one such example. For characters that can be hit by a delayed Bandit Bringer deep in the corner, performing an optimal or semi-optimal Fafnir, Bandit Bringer route will result in higher damage. Doing so also has the advantage of working from considerably further away. The ender for this route follows the same principle as Combo #1.

Combo #3 - (near-corner or corner) CH 2D > Gun Flame, 5HS (HJC) > IAD j.K > j.D > Kudakero (1) |> c.S (JC) > j.D > Kudakero |> 6P > 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi

Combo #3 was routed for a simple reason: The increased input buffer makes IAD j.K combos much easier than before, so there's less excuse not to go for it now. Sin was chosen as the Training Dummy for the sake of variety, but against him and several others, 6HS needs to be delayed very slightly. If you don't delay at all, only the first hit of HS Volcanic Viper can connect. If you delay too long, Sin will drop too much and the HS Volcanic Viper will hit as an OTG.

Combo #4 - (VS Millia, corner) c.S > 6P > delay Gun Flame, 5HS (HJC) > j.D > Kudakero |> 5HS (JC) > j.D, falling j.D |> Fafnir, dash c.S > 6P > 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi
(second 5HS accidentally replaced by 2HS during recording)

Combo #4 demonstrates maximum damage on Millia in the corner in response to most normal routes not working on her. This is an extension of a combo originally posted by HIDEKI in the Millia match-up thread. Millia has a surprisingly large airborne hurtbox. You may have noticed just how accommodating it is if you've ever done a high air hit 5HS > Bandit Revolver on her. In Ver.1.10, her airborne hurtbox was adjusted, allowing us to end the combo with 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi when previously we could only do a 5HS into our ender of choice, as otherwise the HS Volcanic Viper would've whiffed.

Combos #5-7 are all based around variations of Sol's most optimal, meterless combo route, detailed here.

Combo #5 - (starting position) [AA] CH 2HS > Bandit Bringer x2, Fafnir, Bandit Bringer, Gun Flame, 6P > delay 5HS (HJC) > j.D > Kudakero |> HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi

Combo #5 was originally routed to show off a double Bandit Bringer combo following a ground hit CH 2HS, but as of Ver.1.10, landing two Bandit Bringers in a row off CH 2HS is now only possible off a high air hit, due to CH 2HS's significantly reduced float height. This combo deals significantly more damage than its Ver.1.04 equivalent, however, thanks to 2HS no longer having 90% initial proration. I suspect that 2HS cleanly beating Kudakero may also be a result of Kudakero's hurtbox nerf. Sol is one of a few characters that can be hit by a highest possible air hit Fafnir, Bandit Bringer deep in the corner. To be able to land HS Volcanic Viper at the end of the combo, you either need to delay 5HS by as little an amount as possible while still being able to land Kudakero afterwards to reduce untechable time decay, or delay the HS Volcanic Viper slightly so that the opponent has a chance to drop within range of the first active frame.

Combo #6 - (VS Zato, starting position) CH 6HS > Bandit Bringer, Fafnir, Bandit Bringer, Gun Flame, 6P > Gun Flame, dash j.K (JC) > j.D > Kudakero |> 6P > 6HS > HS Volcanic Viper -> Tataki Otoshi

Combo #6 demonstrates a Zato-specific variation of Sol's meterless, maximum damage combo. As it turns out, Zato is the only character that you can land dash j.K on that can still be hit by the 6P afterwards. Omitting the dash j.K results in higher potential damage, but it prevents Tataki Otoshi from connecting. Landing the Tataki Otoshi is possible on both Sol and Slayer, however, and is technically the most optimal variation of the route as far as damage is concerned. Jump Cancelling the dash j.K is done to gain height and close distance, preventing Kudakero from whiffing on Zato's relatively thin airborne hitbox and bringing Sol close enough to the corner to land Tataki Otoshi at the end of the combo.

Combo #7 - (VS Chipp, starting position) CH 6HS > Bandit Bringer, Fafnir, Bandit Bringer, Gun Flame, 6P > Gun Flame, 6P > Bandit Revolver (2nd hit) *stuns*, dash Respect > Bukkirabou ni Nageru, dash j.D, falling j.D |> Fafnir, Instant Kill Mode (Gold), Branding Breach

Combo #7, or rather the fact that it stuns, is only possible thanks to the inherent increase in stun damage that Sol has been granted as a result of 6HS's damage increase. Previously, Sol had to spend Tension to stun Chipp in a single combo, but no more. It should be noted that there are alternative ways to trigger the stunning blow. Replacing 6P > Bandit Revolver (2nd hit) with 2HS (JC) > j.D will stun Chipp while keeping him in the corner, but stunning with the second hit of Bandit Revolver has the advantage of forcing Chipp to the ground much earlier, enabling an airtight follow-up at Level 3 Stun Recovery as opposed to Level 2. The follow-up combo used was chosen because it kills Chipp in the fewest additional moves. It also helps demonstrate the Tension Gain of the two combos, as Sol is able to reach 50% Tension from nothing at the exact moment he needs to in order to secure the finish.

Combo #8 - (starting position, Elphelt preps a Berry Pine, Sol forces her to block until the Berry Pine timer dips below 2 seconds remaining) Dragon Install, dash [(DI) Gun Flame, (DI) Bandit Bringer] x2, (DI) Bandit Bringer, (DI) Gun Flame, (DI) Bandit Revolver (last hit), c.S > 2HS (JC) > j.D > P.B.B.

Combo #8 was routed to show how Sol can capitalise off the fact that Berry Pine's timer continues to tick down during super freeze. Dragon Install has a post-super freeze start-up of 0 frames, allowing Sol to act freely as soon as Elphelt is forced into hitstun. c.S being able to connect in this combo is a result of its vertical hitbox increase in Ver.1.10, previously you had to use the second hit of 5K instead. You may be wondering why I bothered to add a combo that only deals 160 damage in a video of high damage and stun combos, but let's not forget that Berry Pine's self-destruct deals 10 damage and has 50% initial proration. Based on the situation, this is about as high a damage as you can get without spending an additional 50% Tension.

There was originally going to be another combo here showcasing a full screen Calvados punish. It was going to consist of Sol activating Dragon Install in response to Calvados' start-up cinematic, then performing (DI) Grand Viper to go underneath the beam. If the (DI) Grand Viper did 6 hits or less, because Ramlethal is a lightweight, the gravity would still be low enough to allow Sol to land a (DI) Gun Flame afterwards and then continue from there. Sadly, as of Ver.1.10, Calvados' hitbox now reaches the ground, so you cannot low profile underneath it anymore.

Combo #9 - (VS Chipp, starting position, Sol at 20% life) Dragon Install, (DI) HS Volcanic Viper (1) (RC) > walk [(DI) Gun Flame, (DI) Bandit Bringer] x3, (DI) Gun Flame, (DI) Bandit Revolver (last hit) *stuns*, Taunt > 5HS (JC) > P.B.B.

Combo #9 is a continuation of the stun combo concept introduced in Combo #7, but this one worked just as well back in Ver.1.04. Sol's combined damage and comboability is so high in Dragon Install that he is able to stun Chipp without requiring a Counter Hit. To put it into perspective, the base stun damage of the combo is as follows: 120, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50 *stuns*. With the time spent waiting out the slowdown on (DI) HS Volcanic Viper (1) (RC) causing a not-insignificant amount of untechable time decay, landing [(DI) Gun Flame, (DI) Bandit Bringer] x3 was previously only possible on Chipp, although with recent hurtbox tweaks to certain characters, this may no longer be the case. As before, stunning with the last hit of (DI) Bandit Revolver forces Chipp to the ground rather quickly, and with Sol not needing to dash, he has more time to prepare for the follow-up combo, hence why a Taunt is performed instead of a Respect.

Bonus Clip - Chipp attempts to Burst that last 5HS and... well...

The bonus clip demonstrates that the follow-up combo is completely Burst safe. P.B.B. does 160 base damage now, so this is frankly overkill.

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In 1.1, thanks to Faust hurtbox in air reaching lower, the burst safe WT works on him too. WT > jump delay j.S > j.K > j.D |> Fafnir etc.

I'm wondering if this is max possible non-Hellfire DI combo damage off corner WT. It uses the character specific Fafnir BB and BB GF. This route is also nice because you build more pre DI tension.

WT dash under 5HS (JC) > j.D, falling j.D |> Fafnir, BB, GF, 6P > DI, (5K/c.S) 2HS (HJC) j.D > Kudakero |> GF, dash j.D (JC) > j.D > Kudakero |> delay TR, dash 2PxN f.S > 5HS > GV

Most I got was 272 on Sol. Works on SO, KY, LE, FA, EL, PO. For the BB, specifics are outlined in character specifics thread. Number of 2P can range from 3-5 or so depending on character. Works from WT starting at 50% tension.

Edit:

Now I'm trying to see if you can do BB, GF, 6P > GF > 6P before DI, might need to JI to get Kudakero and it's gonna be more character specific.

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I dunno if you guys already know this , but you can wild throw, dragon install, and combo carry them to the corner:

 

wild throw, di, cr hs js jh kudakaro, iad js jh kudakero x n,

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