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[Xrd] Sol Badguy 101/Q&A/FAQ Thread

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  • Have a question regarding Sol in Xrd? Feel free to ask in this thread for an answer!
  • This first post will be updated with a FAQ section once more info is available to help prevent redundant questions.
  • Before asking a question, please see if you can find the answer in the below FAQ or on the Dustloop Xrd Sol Badguy Wiki.
Q: I'm having problems with the Dustloop, what am I doing wrong?
Collapsed: A:


The typical problems with Dustloop execution are generally one of the following:
 
1. You're going for the second j.D too early, or too late.
--Is the move not coming out, or just whiffing? Though you have a bit of a window here, it's not large. Not as large as it used to be in XX/#R, anyway.
-If you're pressing the button when Sol's already falling close to the ground, it's probably too late.
-If you're pressing the button after the first and you're not even hearing the move come out, it's probably too early.
 
2. You're going for the first j.D too late.
--You want to start the move pretty much as soon as you leave the ground. j.D should be connecting before the peak of your jump. If it's at the peak or after, you're not doing this fast enough.
 
3. You're letting the opponent float too high for the second j.D to connect.
--Though j.D has a decent vertical hitbox, sometimes the opponent is just too high for it to connect. If this is the case, if you're using 6P to float them, into 5H, j.D, you might be cancelling 6P into 5H too early. 6P has a fairly wide gatling window, so you want to delay the 5H afterwards for as long as possible so the opponent is as low to the ground as they'll get before you jump cancel into j.D.
 

-If they're already in the air when you're starting the combo, if you're doing it with 5K to 2H to relaunch, they might be so high up that regular reps won't work from that height, which would force you to do [j.D, j.K dj.D, fall j.D], or just [j.D dj.D, fall j.D].


-Lastly, I-no, May, and Millia are lightweights and float higher than most of the cast. Ram and potentially Elphelt also fit into this category, but their vertical hitboxes are low enough that you can generally get by with standard timing.


 
 
This is understandable, DLoop is now harder than it's ever been due to increased recovery on j.D, and thus makes the number of reps you can do significantly less than before (if you want a comparison of how stupid easy it used to be, go watch GGXX vids of PC/NOB/Daigo). High jumping is not necessary to DLoop.
 
Try each of these at a time and see if you can spot the problem.

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Don't really have a question just wanna say thanks for putting the work into all these threads and the wiki - I don't feel like I have much to contribute so I havn't posted in anything but its helpful.

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Don't really have a question just wanna say thanks for putting the work into all these threads and the wiki - I don't feel like I have much to contribute so I havn't posted in anything but its helpful.

Cool glad to hear it helps.

Question, has anyone been able to land air hit 5HS > IAD j.K without high jump cancelling? I'm curious because I have never landed it without HJC. I can get j.P with a regular JC, but never j.K. I prefer to HJC anyways since it feels easier, but I'm curious if that is actually changing anything or if it's just how I time it when I HJC vs JC.

With HJC, both seem easier to me than they were in +R for whatever reason. I get j.P pretty consistently now, and j.K I can land but still miss it sometimes.

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I think I've gotten 5H IAD j.K out of a normal jump ONCE in +R. Haven't gotten it in Xrd at all.

 

On that note, I've been practicing it because I could never get it consistently in +R, but in Xrd, throwing the j.K out of the IAD immediately works most of the time, but I can't get an IAD j.P to work for some reason. Do you normally cancel the IAD immediately, or delay the button a bit?

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I think I've gotten 5H IAD j.K out of a normal jump ONCE in +R. Haven't gotten it in Xrd at all.

 

On that note, I've been practicing it because I could never get it consistently in +R, but in Xrd, throwing the j.K out of the IAD immediately works most of the time, but I can't get an IAD j.P to work for some reason. Do you normally cancel the IAD immediately, or delay the button a bit?

I believe I'm delaying the j.P input ever so slightly after inputting the air dash when I get it.

also if you don't mind, I put your recent answer to dustloop problems in the first post, since it comes up quite often and that's a good explanation for the common problems.

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Does Sol have a safe jump/reversal backstep catch OS? I couldn't make it work with jS, 5K.

Yes he can do that, but it depends on the opponent character's backdash what the best option is. 5K won't hit Bedman's for example but f.S/5HS/6HS will. I went through the cast in +R testing that stuff, but haven't gotten to it in Xrd yet. Most are probably the same.

As for ones I have gotten to testing in Xrd, I got these to work:

Bedman: 4f.S, 4HS, 6HS (all safe to super if timed perfectly, kinda iffy there)

Elphelt: 4c.S, 1D (both safe to reversal super)

Sin: 4f.S, 4HS, 6HS, TR (beats DP as well as backdash). Also good to know OS backdash vs Sin so you can whiff punish if he did DP.

Ramlethal: 4K (safe to reversal super)

The notes I had from +R are in +R forums in the character specifics thread, I was thinking of doing something similar for Xrd at some point.

Example I had saved of it working with 5K on Faust:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=MT0ZjA9qBxY&t=5m10s

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It must've been me not doing it late enough. Because I also tried 4H on Sol when 4K didn't work, and he was backstepping that too. Thanks, I'll try it out again. 

 

Ah, based on the video, I wasn't hitting the jS as late as I needed to.

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I believe I'm delaying the j.P input ever so slightly after inputting the air dash when I get it.

also if you don't mind, I put your recent answer to dustloop problems in the first post, since it comes up quite often and that's a good explanation for the common problems.

Thanks, I got it out, but even the timing for j.K is tighter, I'm finding it more reliable because of the range and damage. Though I'm trying something out and the distance to make it work is kinda wonky.

 

(from midscreen/starting position) [f.S RC]/CH 5H(JC) > IAD j.S > j.D |> 5H (HJC) > IAD j.K > j.D > Break/Kudakero > whatever.

 

The problem is though it seems like I'm close to the corner, the Break/Kudakero isn't connecting after the second j.D, unless I push them forwards a bit at the start (it could be character specific, I'm currently testing against I-no because I'm testing other things)

 

 

Another question: What motion are you doing for tk.DI? I'm trying to do it for the ambiguous high-low, but when I do 2142147H, I get a backdash, and when I do 2147214H, The input comes out too late for the mixup to work.

 

 

Lastly, I don't mind at all. I was planning on adding it to the wiki after some editing, anyway.

 

 

How does JI work with sol just curios to find out more info

Sol has multiple forms of JI the same as everybody else.

 

1. Input a jump during a jump cancellable normal, then gatling/special cancel into another move before the jump comes out. E.G. c.S > 8 > 5H (HJC)

2. Perform a combo with a jump in without expending your double jump, then combo into something. E.G.  j.S |> 2H (HJC)

3. TK a special input, but hit the button before jump startup. E.G. 2147 S (RC), double jump

4. RC an auto JI'd move. However, the rules for this seems to have changed for Xrd.

  -Performing an Auto JI'd move on the ground and RC'ing it allows you only to airdash after the arc

  -However, performing an Auto JI'd move in the air and RC'ing gives you both a double jump, and an airdash.

  4+. If you jump install through another means prior to using and RC'ing a grounded, auto JI'd normal, you'll be able to double jump like any other JI.

 

Sol's auto JI'd specials include Bandit Revolver, Bandit Bringer, Riot Stomp (this move is an exception to point 4, you can still dj out of an RC/YRC).

You must manually JI Volcanic Viper and Grand Viper.

 

 

If you're asking what Sol's capable of with JI, well, I'm sure you've seen some of the possibilities:

 

Tk'ing a DP can afford you a safer recover if you RC it on block, 6239 S/H (blocked) (RC), airdash/air backdash

5K/c.S > 5HS/2HS > Bandit Revolver (RC) > Airdash j.S > j.K > delay j.D |> dash j.K > j.S (JC) > j.S > j.H > sVV > Tataki Otoshi

5K/c.S > 5HS/2HS (JI) > Grand Viper (RC) > air backdash |> Bandit Bringer, Fafnir, dash 6P > delay Gun Flame > c.S > Bandit Revolver

 

Lots of good stuff

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Another question: What motion are you doing for tk.DI? I'm trying to do it for the ambiguous high-low, but when I do 2142147H, I get a backdash, and when I do 2147214H, The input comes out too late for the mixup to work.

I do 2142147H, but I did have the same problem a lot when messing with it. It's a pretty annoying input, not to mention timing the button press properly to get the height right. I don't have high hopes for it being practical at all for mixups to be honest now.

I was able to get a meaty high or meaty empty low, or a low airdash, depending on timing after a corner knockdown. I haven't tried it in matches yet but I'm skeptical.

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4. RC an auto JI'd move. However, the rules for this seems to have changed for Xrd.

  -Performing an Auto JI'd move on the ground and RC'ing it allows you only to airdash after the arc

  -However, performing an Auto JI'd move in the air and RC'ing gives you both a double jump, and an airdash.

  4+. If you jump install through another means prior to using and RC'ing a grounded, auto JI'd normal, you'll be able to double jump like any other JI.

 

Sol's auto JI'd specials include Bandit Revolver, Bandit Bringer, Riot Stomp (this move is an exception to point 4, you can still dj out of an RC/YRC).

You must manually JI Volcanic Viper and Grand Viper.

 

I don't think it's a change to auto-Jump Install necessarily. I'd be more inclined to say that ground-to-air actions simply use up different amounts of jump options now. Most ground-to-air specials allow you to air dash after a Roman Cancel now (acting as an artificial High Jump rather than an artificial double jump), but some like Ground Volcanic Viper and Grand Viper lock out air dash unless you manually Jump Install, just like they used to. The same seems to be true for other grounded strike invulnerable specials that result in you becoming airborne (I say strike specifically because it applies to moves like Grand Viper and Beta Blade, but doesn't apply to Crosswise Heel, which is fully invulnerable except at foot level after the first couple of frames), as well as command normals that do the same.

In other words, I don't think Bandit Revolver and Bandit Bringer auto-Jump Install so much as they don't use up all your jump options in the first place.

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Then don't you think we should have some sort of distinction between the two? Considering that BR auto-JI'd in AC (airdash AND double jump) while BB did not, and how both now grant the same movement options on (Y)RC, I'd like to describe it with something rather than "This move grants one airdash if (Y)RC'd in the air, but does not allow you to double jump unless jump installed, and the same is true of all moves that have strike invincibility and go airborne from the ground".

 

I'd like to avoid any misnomers or mislabeling of things, such as people getting confused/upset when we talk about fuzzy guards.

 

I recall Digital Watches creating a thread for +R meant for the discussion of and definition of terms like oki, abare, etc, but I think it's been long buried.

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I think the best way to go about it would probably be to abolish the notion of auto-Jump Install altogether and start refering to moves either by the options you have left or the movement type that it resembles.

In other words...
Volcanic Viper and Grand Viper are specials that impart double jump properties (no air jump or air dash remaining).
Bandit Revolver and Bandit Bringer are specials that impart High Jump properties (no air jump, but air dash remaining).
Riot Stamp is a special that imparts single jump properties (air jump, air dash, but not both).
Aerial actions do no impart any specific property, your available options following them are the same as they were when you started them.

Jump Install grants single jump properties to a character once they've used one jump option (so either a single jump, High Jump or special that imparts the properties of a jump option, but not after a double jump). "Single jump" is an important distinction to make, because it's not as if it necessarily just gives you one option back, Chipp can jump twice when he Jump Installs.

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On a couple combos (using challenge 31 as a reference since that's where I'm stuck), I can't for the life of me get the Kudakero > delay > VV link. Could anybody give me a suggestion on landing this? It either doesn't go off or the opponent techs.

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First of all, if nothing is coming out, you need to delay the input. There's quite a bit of recovery after Kudakero hits the ground, well in excess of the second hit. As for when Volcanic Viper comes out but whiffs, the vast majority of whiffs after Kudakero that aren't a result of simple mistiming are because the second hit of Kudakero has whiffed off-screen, resulting in the opponent being much lower than required by the time you recover. This can happen pretty easily in situations where you start Kudakero deep in the corner, usually off a dash momentum j.D or an otherwise deep j.D (such as combos involving dash j.D, falling j.K (JC) > j.D). If this happens, you want to put a bit of distance between Sol and the corner. If j.D is being preceeded by a jump cancel deep in the corner, try neutral jumping instead of forward jumping.

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I have a question regarding Sol's ability to keep an opponent locked down. After I VV some one, and knock them down with the kick, I generally use 2K (to force tech) > Gunflame as a method to scare them into continuously blocking. However, I have not found this method to be terribly effective. Characters like Kye, or Milia can pretty much lock you down in the corner with a constant barrage of attacks that force you to block. My question then, is does anyone have any suggestions of what I can do that would be similar?

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Well, while 2K (otg)> gunflame is decent oki, it is much stronger with yrc. Furthermore, you have to be careful when doing the otg, because sometimes your opponent can tech the otg. and CH you out of your setup. As Sol your pressure is not going to be as long or as scary as Ky or Millia pressure, but you still have frame traps up the ass and pressure resets like 2S.

Don't forget about the tools that your opponents have either, for example most people know that Sol has the most reliable dp in the game. In response, people would mold their offense so that if you try to reversal out they can hit you for good damage and then put you back into mixup. In this case, you can respect the pressure and block, or you can try to mash out differently, with GV or whatever move you feel will work better.

Now, this comes from experience but you will learn with the character how to bait certain approaches on offense. For example, if Kys are slide-attacking you out of your pressure, you will have to adapt so the gaps you leave bait the attack, so that if they try to do it again, you block the horribly unsafe move and start your offense.

This is just one example of many scenarios though, for you need to play the game and learn what pressure works best against different characters and different players. And sometimes, that is the best teacher.

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Thank you FenrirHades. I guess my next question would be, are there any forum posts, or does anyone have some good suggestions on good oki for Sol, or some really solid ways to apply pressure, while also leaving room for multiple options (i.e. 5K>c.S>f.S>gunflame could very well be 5K>c.S>f.S>GV or bandit bringer...maybe not the best example, but you get the idea)

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I'd suggest reading the okizeme section in the wiki http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sol_Badguy_(GGXRD)#Offense

It should give a good idea. There is some that needs to be updated or expanded on, namely corner oki. I'm planning to have a dedicated oki thread soon and update that. I keep learning of different nuances to it so I'm giving it time.

Watching vids of good Sol's would help get an idea of what oki to do when. When in doubt, just go for meaty Gun Flame or safejumps and continue pressure from there.

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Thanks VR. Any time I try and do a safe jump though, I get thrown, or countered. It never seems to work well, and I am not used to Sol having a crossup (j.K) so I am still trying to learn to use that effectively. 

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If you're having trouble with safejump timing, I find that walking forward slightly (sol should only take like 1 or 2 steps), jumping with j.P and immediately doing j.S works really consistently. From what I've practiced it only works after a BR knockdown though.

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If you're having trouble with safejump timing, I find that walking forward slightly (sol should only take like 1 or 2 steps), jumping with j.P and immediately doing j.S works really consistently. From what I've practiced it only works after a BR knockdown though.

You can do a safe jump after VV > Otoshi.

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Does the same timing I mentioned work for VV > Otoshi? I haven't practiced it too much, but at midscreen you are too close so if you walk forward and jump you will pretty much always cross up and the j.S will whiff. I haven't practiced this safejump timing that much with VV > Otoshi in the corner yet but perhaps it works better there.

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