Jump to content
VR-Raiden

[Xrd] Sol Badguy 101/Q&A/FAQ Thread

Recommended Posts

There's a lot to know. Definitely check out the wiki and watch some vids. If you're coming from BB, it's tempting to compare Sol to Ragna, but they are different enough that you cannot really play one like the other. Ragna is more of a pokey character who uses his range to his advantage, while Sol is more of a bully character who pressures you offensively. Sol uses his high priority attacks to suppress his opponent's actions, then once they've been beaten into submission, he uses his command grab to threaten them into being active again. This is the most basic explanation of how he flows as a character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the wiki, it says doing a f.S > whiff 2S leaves you at frame advantage.  I'm wondering how this can be possible, given the frame data?  f.S says it is -11, with 2 active frames and 23 recovery frames.  So if you cancel it into 2S, you're cancelling 24 frames.  2S has 10 start-up, 3 active, and 8 recovery, a total of 21 frames.  So if you cancel f.S into a whiffed 2S, it should replace the 23f recovery + 1f active (24f) with the 21f full animation of 2S, reducing recovery overall by 3f.  If f.S is normally -11, that should leave you at -8, which is definitely not advantaged.  What am I not understanding here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure it's minus. The 5S > 2S (whiff) is just hard to react to, and you can mix it up with 5S > GF YRC, 5S > 5H and such. So, you've got ways to keep people from blindly hitting buttons, and it can be tricky to react to what Sol does next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's minus, but 8f recovery on whiff is really good (which normal is plus on whiff?). It's not a frame advantage (and it's not called that way in the wiki) but an advantageous situation. Try to punish a whiffed 2S, it's not that easy if not impossible. In addition to the short recovery Sol's hurtbox is far back. And if it hits on block it's +2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see where it would be misleading from 2 spots I saw it mentioned. It just says "advantage". I'll edit for clarity later unless someone does before me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really an advantageous situation, it's very much dependent upon your opponent's frame of mind and what they are looking for. Normally -8 might be barely punishable, depending upon how fast your opponent's midrange pokes are and how close/far you are. What the opponent cannot do in that situation is visually verify that you did 5S-2S whiff and THEN punish; it's frame tight, so they would have to commit somewhat. If 5S is IBed, you go from -8 to -11, so it becomes a little easier in that case. However, as Orrax mentioned, you can mix between a few different options to throw your opponent off and potentially get a big punish. Both 5HS and GF YRC are good options, GF YRC moreso since it may be more likely to draw a counter hit and gives you better options if the opponent didn't commit to a punish. Another good option if you have meter is BB; you get a huge reward if your read was correct, and if the opponent didn't commit, you can always YRC to bait out Blitz or other countermeasures. Try to use these options to prompt your opponent to be chill and just block, then you can go for more pressure. You're mostly trying to use options which require your opponent to either act immediately or to be patient and block/react, then take advantage of that to open them up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the clarification, everybody.  I thought 'advantageous' was being used as shorthand for 'frame advantage', heh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys! i am new to xrd and to sol in general, what are some things i need to know on how to start learning to play this character? i am not really sure how to play this character at all, any tips would be appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ello . i been trying to pick up sol again and put him as my new sub (geting tired of ky) and i was wondering is there any kinda trick to learning the DustLoop?

i've tryed everything i could think of , watched clips and still dont get how can you land the falling  J.D . i tryed delaying  5HS . then 2HS . even hiting J.D soon as am able to jump cancel . anyone got any tips?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try to mute all the in-game sounds except for voices and listen. Do you hear Sol yelling once when performing the j.D and then a second time when falling, but no attack is coming out? 

If you can hear him, then you either make the gap between the two j.D's bigger than it has to be or you are doing the first j.D a little too late. You literally have to press the button as soon as possible after leaving the ground for a dustloop to work. j.D has plenty of startup, so don't worry, you'll be up in the air and at your opponent's height by the time it's active. j.D also recovers for a while, but it's obviously not very long if a thing like the dustloop is possible. 

If you want to practice the timing of the rising j.D and falling j.D, I'd recommend you try my old training exercise for this. 

Go to training mode and pick a dummy that's large (Pot or Bedman). Then, from the middle reset position, do a microdash, then a jump, rising j.D as soon as you leave the ground and try to land a crossup falling j.K as soon as j.D recovers. You should hit them not too far off the ground. When you can consistently get that j.K to come out and hit (it has 3 frames less startup than j.D), then move on to the actual loop in the corner - pick Sol as your dummy, and don't do any delays between 6P and 5HS. Try to use the same timing as for that crossup j.K to get the second j.D to connect. 

As silly as this may sound, it really helped me get a better feel for it. The dustloop is not all that hard once you "feel" the timing. If you try too hard to "see" when you're supposed to press D the second time, you'll usually press it too late. 

EDIT: when I'm home from work I can take pictures of how high you should be when connecting the j.K or just record doing a dustloop with input display enabled, you should see all the timings nicely then. 

Edited by LockedAndClush

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a venom player that's been messing around a lot lately with Sol. He kinda reminds me of Terry Bogard in KoF, whom I play and really like his overall stuff. I'm decent with his execution (for what it's worth, I finished his challenges mode) and can do his Dloops pretty consistently... my problem comes from neutral. I'm noticing this mostly against Ky, Ramlethal, Venom, Zato, and Faust.

What tools do I have to get in? Since Venom covers the screen with projectiles, I have that as well as teleports and a few other things I can do with him - but it seems Sol has limited tools. Can't YRC ground viper and the 214K is ass... What are his good buttons? I've won most of my matches with focus on 5K, cS, and air dash P into confirms. His Dust is ass...

Basically, anything that just gives me some general insight on his neutral... that'd be awesome!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you stumbled on one of his primary flaws. Neutral game depends heavily on the matchup but I'll try to list some general things.

For an idea of how each move is useful in neutral, you can check out his wiki page.

For the ground game, in general you need to know what you can do to punish opponents that try to swat you away with attacks as you approach, or back away as you approach. Often if they notice they're losing out in attack exchanges as you move in, they may start backing up.

Attacking as you approach examples: if Venom keeps doing f.S every time you enter it's range, you can BB in anticipation to whiff punish. Similarly if Ram keeps doing f.S, you can do dashing 2D to low profile it. Say Faust tries to f.S, you can counter it with CH 6P in anticipation.

Backing up as you approach example: if the opponent backdashes when you reach about max 2D range or so, keep running and 5K as theIr backdash finishes. Normally getting Sol's counter-focused pokes to whiff is favorable, so they may try this to create space.

These rely on reading how you expect the opponent to react to your approach.

One of the best tools for getting in is YRC. Neutral YRC allows you to confirm the situation and act accordingly. This is a more costly but safer method of approach. Sol has lots of great moves to take advantage of this. YRC > Fafnir can hit stuff with slow startup, or catch backdashes for example. It's helpful on characters that summon stuff since it can hit from so far (Venom balls, Faust items).

YRC also greatly increases your chances of safely approaching from air. Kudakero YRC and YRC airdash for example.

Could go on forever but I recommend looking over his wiki movelist and strategy pages for other details. Feel free to ask more in here on anything that comes up. 

Also watching match vids of good players is good for seeing how to approach the neutral game in a matchup.

Edited by VR-Raiden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you stumbled on one of his primary flaws. Neutral game depends heavily on the matchup but I'll try to list some general things.

For an idea of how each move is useful in neutral, you can check out his wiki page.

For the ground game, in general you need to know what you can do to punish opponents that try to swat you away with attacks as you approach, or back away as you approach. Often if they notice they're losing out in attack exchanges as you move in, they may start backing up.

Attacking as you approach examples: if Venom keeps doing f.S every time you enter it's range, you can BB in anticipation to whiff punish. Similarly if Ram keeps doing f.S, you can do dashing 2D to low profile it. Say Faust tries to f.S, you can counter it with CH 6P in anticipation.

Backing up as you approach example: if the opponent backdashes when you reach about max 2D range or so, keep running and 5K as theIr backdash finishes. Normally getting Sol's counter-focused pokes to whiff is favorable, so they may try this to create space.

These rely on reading how you expect the opponent to react to your approach.

One of the best tools for getting in is YRC. Neutral YRC allows you to confirm the situation and act accordingly. This is a more costly but safer method of approach. Sol has lots of great moves to take advantage of this. YRC > Fafnir can hit stuff with slow startup, or catch backdashes for example. It's helpful on characters that summon stuff since it can hit from so far (Venom balls, Faust items).

YRC also greatly increases your chances of safely approaching from air. Kudakero YRC and YRC airdash for example.

Could go on forever but I recommend looking over his wiki movelist and strategy pages for other details. Feel free to ask more in here on anything that comes up. 

Also watching match vids of good players is good for seeing how to approach the neutral game in a matchup.



All of that is really helpful. My problem with videos is I don't know how things work yet. For example, I see people do a dash fun flame where it's almost behind them, but can't get that to come out. I'm also not yet comfortable with his jump arc and dash speeds yet.

Understanding that I'm looking for counter pokes and then moving in really helps though.

What is kudakero?

Sent from Xperia using #SonyFanboyism

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kudakero is the divekick, j.214K. It's good at beating anti-air attempts because Sol stalls in air then dives down quickly. It's unsafe unless spaced well, but with YRC he keeps the downward momentum so you shoot down during YRC slowdown. Which makes it a hard to punish approach from the air. If you YRC too early you just fall slowly vertically, to get the fast diagonal drop you time YRC for when he starts the dive. If you watch Kazunoko he uses this quite a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kudakero is the divekick, j.214K. It's good at beating anti-air attempts because Sol stalls in air then dives down quickly. It's unsafe unless spaced well, but with YRC he keeps the downward momentum so you shoot down during YRC slowdown. Which makes it a hard to punish approach from the air. If you YRC too early you just fall slowly vertically, to get the fast diagonal drop you time YRC for when he starts the dive. If you watch Kazunoko he uses this quite a lot.

Gotcha.

Suppose I'm used to the Murrican terminology, so I know that as "break"? I think that's what it's called.

Anyway, thanks for the tip on that. I'm guessing it keeps the same speed as the dive kick too? That sounds sick. I'll keep an eye on that in Kazu's videos - also, that's precisely what I don't understand quite well yet, how to make him move utilizing things like that, so I really appreciate the explanations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ramblings: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snfq1e
 

TLDR; when are Dragon Install combos a good idea?

I only ever use Dragon Install when:

a) I'm at least at 75 meter (so I can easily build it up to 50 in DI or have 25 for some YRC shenanigans)
b) I'm already pressuring the opponent
c) I got Hell Fire (very rarely I will skip that part, usually when I have a 100 meter, some advantage and am confident this will secure the kill)
d) Observing the enemy's play doesn't hint at them being capable of handling DI pressure - meaning they will sit and block for the most part

My plan in DI is always the same - pressure pressure pressure for as long as I can to build meter, scare the opponent and either take away their Tension or build some RISC. Then all I need is an opening to get a WT>j.D>PBB>RC>PBB combo. Since people usually expect things like GV, BB or GF when you're in DI, the WT can catch a lot of people off guard. This also does great damage anywhere on the screen. Build some RISC, and it goes through the roof. 

Obviously this complicates when someone becomes aware of this plan after a few times. This however is always good, because then you can start utilizing other DI tools to get the enemy literally frightened, assuming you don't do stupid stuff like GV or HSVV without 50 meter to RC. 

This may not be theoretically "correct", as it puts you at huge risk with no guarantee of a reward, but I see Dragon Install as a pressure scare tactic. I hate using it in combos, because you miss out on advantage after the knockdown and all the meter you'd build during the combo. Also, a Burst might ruin your day, while my typical DI route is either unburstable, or will straight up steal the Burst (and then the damage is insane). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I think doing whatever starter to DI combo that isn't capable of killing is pretty much always a bad idea. You end with 0 tension, they end up with tons of tension and Burst gauge from your combo. Even if it gets you a hefty life lead, it doesn't mean that much when it results in you losing your resources and them gaining so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trouble landing 2D > BR consistently in the corner. Sometimes the BR just goes in front of them, when I've comboed into it.

It's one of his early Challenge levels and I'm not sure why BR sometimes hits or doesn't, any tips?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trouble landing 2D > BR consistently in the corner. Sometimes the BR just goes in front of them, when I've comboed into it.

It's one of his early Challenge levels and I'm not sure why BR sometimes hits or doesn't, any tips?

It depends on the character and BR's really weird hitbox. Sometimes ending 2D is a better way to ensure a knockdown and possibly go for safejump and oki. BR Doesn't connect too well from afar on some characters in corner. The easiest characters to hit BR with is Slayer and Potemkin, since they have big juggle hitboxes. 

You should also try using 2D > GV against Ram/May, since their juggle hitboxes allow for a GV followup. It's harder to do on May, but consistent with Ramlethal overall. BR in general is weird in the corner since the corner negates 2D juggle potential from the back. Your other best choice is to not do 2D and go for 2K > 6P > Dustloop instead. 

If you do land 2D through a frametrap, just let them fall to the ground and setup safejump or GF YRC Oki.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trouble landing 2D > BR consistently in the corner. Sometimes the BR just goes in front of them, when I've comboed into it.

It's one of his early Challenge levels and I'm not sure why BR sometimes hits or doesn't, any tips?

Sorry, I meant to post outside of the quotes, but forgot to write under the line. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×