Jump to content
VR-Raiden

[Xrd] Sol Badguy 101/Q&A/FAQ Thread

Recommended Posts

Sorry, I meant to post outside of the quotes, but forgot to write under the line. 

Thanks for the tips. Is there a way to make it hit consistently -- does it depend on the frame in hitstun you cancel out of? Does dashing effect it at all?

2D > BR > RC in the corner can lead to sweet combos.. even better to gatling into the 2D. Just doesn't seem reliable thanks for the tips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tips. Is there a way to make it hit consistently -- does it depend on the frame in hitstun you cancel out of? Does dashing effect it at all?

2D > BR > RC in the corner can lead to sweet combos.. even better to gatling into the 2D. Just doesn't seem reliable thanks for the tips.

It really doesn't matter which frame you hit even you delayed BR from 2D. Dashing does help a bit, since it brings you closer to them in order for BR to connect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That challenge is stupid, if I recall you just need dash momentum and starting point blank.

You don't generally bother with 2D BR in corner, you use 6P instead wherever possible for free big damage thanks to the wall bounce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, just want to start off by saying that this character subforum is very well curated and extremely helpful, so I have a pretty thorough understanding on how to do most of Sol's combo routes.

The only route that I am unable to figure out is Sol's midscreen command grab wall carry conversions. This might seem really obvious to everyone, but does anyone have any tips on how to do command grab > (Gunflame >) dashing jD > jD fafnir? For some reason I keep missing the initial jD hit so I don't know if I'm just not doing it fast enough or I am just misunderstanding the timing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For landing dash j.D after Bukkirabou ni Nageru, you need to delay the dash j.D. Reason being that the opponent needs to be at the correct height so that Sol's collision hitbox pushes into theirs rather than passing underneath. It's not the easiest thing to time, so just try to get a feel for it. For the Gun Flame variation, you just need to perform Gun Flame as quickly as possible, as the hitbox of the flames relative to the bounce of the opponent creates a short window between Gun Flame becoming active and the opponent getting hit, delaying the hitstun from Gun Flame and giving you enough time to recover and perform a dashing j.D. The dash j.D in this instance must be done immediately after recovery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey dudes. Flipped from Millia to Sol because she got boring. I'm having a ton of fun with Sol, but I have one question. Where are places you are able to use Wild Throw? I'm not doing it nearly enough and it's leaving my pressure a bit weak. All I really know is to go for 2P tick throws, but there has to be other spots you can sneak one in to your strings. Any tips?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wild Throw is very effective after 2P as you mentioned, but 2K can also be used for tick throws and a low. It's good to learn to see it connect to convert to 6P>5HS>sj IAD>j.P>j.HS>HSVV-TO (or a j.K>j.D>Kudakero>ender variant near the corner). 

Frame traps are essential for Wild Throw pressure too. Even the basic 2P delay 6P delay 2S things will discourage your opponent from pressing buttons when pressured. Many strong options for Wild Throw become available after 2S. While it's not really a tick throw (has too much pushback), it's +3 on block, so you have plenty of time to get in their face. What makes it so good are the other moves you can do after 2S though. Just go for dash f.S>2S pressure string again to keep them blocking and yourself at an advantage. Alternate this with dash>dash brake to stay safe and discourage them from attempting risky moves that will beat you, like DP's and such. 

Moves like 2S>6HS, 2S>Fafnir or 2S>Gunflame YRC have great utility here. Landing Wild Throw isn't as much about where in your strings you place it. It's more a case of making the opponent so respectful of your strong moves, that you can land it anywhere. As you start landing Wild Throw more often, your opponent will open up to getting punished by the options you used to set it up in the first place. Observe your opponent's reaction to all your other moves to find the right spot. 

If you want more gimmicky ways to land a Wild Throw, here are some:

- Fafnir YRC>WT - It's actually really good, but be careful to not get interrupted before you YRC. If they jump out, go for an air throw. 
- Kudakero YRC>WT - cancel the Kudakero as soon as you gain downwards momentum from it to surprise your opponent and land straight on top of their head. If they jump at you on reaction to Kudakero startup to gain advantage, attack while falling down. 
- blockstring ending with 5HS/6HS>Gunflame RC> dash WT - this is a personal favorite of mine, but it costs plenty of meter. Lengthy blockstun of 5HS/6HS allows you to get an RC after Gunflame, which will travel slower for quite a while. Dash in in front of the projectile and Wild Throw. If they start interrupting this option, just dash>dash brake and watch them get hit by the CH Gunflame. Unfortunately this looses to dashing out, but you can prevent that by doing dash f.S>2S after the RC instead. 

These are gimmicks though. They are useful, but they just exploit your opponent, not condition him. The fundamental idea of landing Wild Throw is to make the opponent afraid to act against it, in fear of all the other options you can throw out. . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a reason people like to do Feint Gunflame during knockdown? I don't really see the advantage Feint Gunflame holds in general. I usually just do 2k > 5s and then gunflame as they recover, but it starts to feel really repetitive and weak after a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a reason people like to do Feint Gunflame during knockdown? I don't really see the advantage Feint Gunflame holds in general. I usually just do 2k > 5s and then gunflame as they recover, but it starts to feel really repetitive and weak after a while.

Do GF on oki. Follow with Fafnir. They block.

Do feint GF on oki. They try to mash Fafnir's startup. CH 5H/Fafnir.

It's all about conditioning, my boy :^)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So does anybody here think Sol can just completely wipe the floor with some characters? I feel Potemkin is one of them, but can he wreck other people's shit without even breaking a sweat? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So does anybody here think Sol can just completely wipe the floor with some characters? I feel Potemkin is one of them, but can he wreck other people's shit without even breaking a sweat? 

Potemkin is not the case (or with any other cast of this game), taking note that Pot can almost punish any shit that you throw at him for 100+ damage 

With normal blockstring, he can just IB, IB, IB Pot Buster

Trust me, I usually play with a good Pot every now and then

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I need a basic logic check to understand the game better. If any of the statements I make are wrong, let me know and I'll learn!

Sol's Wild Throw is a great tool for turning pressure into damage. Because Sol has a weak grounded high game, and because corner IADs in Guilty Gear are easy to react to and block (or even punish), Wild Throw/frame trap is Sol's primary mixup, where Wild Throw is the threat that makes people want to do things that lose to frame traps.

And yet, good Sol players rarely use Wild Throw (relative to the number of times they opt to push buttons at frame advantage instead). And Sol's opponent still gets caught doing things that lose to Sol's buttons.

I think there are two major reasons for this. First, if Sol goes for a Wild Throw and his opponent jumps or hits Sol with a button, the opponent gets decent damage, knockdown, gets out of the corner if he was there, and now it's the opponent's turn. Momentum is huge in Guilty Gear, so this is an enormous win for Sol's opponent; not only did he get out of Sol's offense, but he starts his own. In contrast, if Sol goes for hitconfirms instead of Wild Throw, at worst they turn into safe blockstrings from which he can spend meter (on Gunflame YRC) to try again.

That makes Wild Throw high risk, high reward, unless the risk:reward ratio is tipped in favor of the reward, via the opponent having bad hit confirms, or blocking a lot.

The second reason Wild Throw isn't often used but opponents still get hit by Sol's buttons is because of Guilty Gear's offense. In Street Fighter, when you have frame advantage you get a brief period of  mixups, but once you get pushed out by the opponent's blocking, there aren't many ways to recreate the advantageous situation, you just have to win the neutral game again. In Guilty Gear, especially in the corner, offense is a lot scarier, and the attacker has options to keep the pressure going. As a result, the defender is further incentivized to take risks to find a way out, because not pushing buttons/jumping is a big risk in itself--Sol will Wild Throw you eventually, and that leads to more damage than Street Fighter's universal throw.

And some quick questions: in Guilty Gear, should I expect (with any character) to always get small combos midscreen, and huge ones in the corner? Every game has corner-specific combos, but Guilty Gear's seem far more important.

Because of Sol's weak high/low game, is it alright (or even advised) to use 2P/5K over 2K for confirm strings?

I typed this on my phone before reading the whole Q&A thread because I wanted to get this off my mind. I hope this wasn't all asked already. There's a lot of good info here, so I'll read it all later today!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Vizer-1 said:

I need a basic logic check to understand the game better. If any of the statements I make are wrong, let me know and I'll learn!

Sol's Wild Throw is a great tool for turning pressure into damage. Because Sol has a weak grounded high game, and because corner IADs in Guilty Gear are easy to react to and block (or even punish), Wild Throw/frame trap is Sol's primary mixup, where Wild Throw is the threat that makes people want to do things that lose to frame traps.

Your main assumption here is that Wild Throw is the main thing that puts pressure on the opponent, and that is of course true to an extend since Wild Throw is ALWAYS an option. In the majority of the cases however, Wild Throw is not done to pressure the opponent. It's to catch him off guard. There are other ways to ensure that the player wants to press something. One of that is obviously frame traps, the other is the RISC-Gauge. With moves like Fafnir, Bandit Bringer and 6H absolutely skyrocketing the gauge of the opponent, they want to taste as few block strings as possible, as far away from the corner as possible. This basically means Sol puts on pressure the same way the bread n butter fighting game character puts pressure: Space control and damage potential.

Im not sure what you mean with weak grounded high game, but his ground game is amazing and his air game is good. While he lacks the mobility of an air master (Millia, Chipp), he still is quite fast and has good buttons in the air (Break, jH, jK, jP) that can lead into knockdown/setups easily.

12 hours ago, Vizer-1 said:

And yet, good Sol players rarely use Wild Throw (relative to the number of times they opt to push buttons at frame advantage instead). And Sol's opponent still gets caught doing things that lose to Sol's buttons.

I think there are two major reasons for this. First, if Sol goes for a Wild Throw and his opponent jumps or hits Sol with a button, the opponent gets decent damage, knockdown, gets out of the corner if he was there, and now it's the opponent's turn. Momentum is huge in Guilty Gear, so this is an enormous win for Sol's opponent; not only did he get out of Sol's offense, but he starts his own. In contrast, if Sol goes for hitconfirms instead of Wild Throw, at worst they turn into safe blockstrings from which he can spend meter (on Gunflame YRC) to try again.

That makes Wild Throw high risk, high reward, unless the risk:reward ratio is tipped in favor of the reward, via the opponent having bad hit confirms, or blocking a lot.

I think thats about right, tho I rather think the reason why certain Sols do not opt for a WT is rather because of the fact that they do not want the other player to get accustomed to the habits of when the WT is coming. Reducing the usage of a tool gives you less data on that tool, meaning its harder to anticipate its future data.

12 hours ago, Vizer-1 said:

The second reason Wild Throw isn't often used but opponents still get hit by Sol's buttons is because of Guilty Gear's offense. In Street Fighter, when you have frame advantage you get a brief period of  mixups, but once you get pushed out by the opponent's blocking, there aren't many ways to recreate the advantageous situation, you just have to win the neutral game again. In Guilty Gear, especially in the corner, offense is a lot scarier, and the attacker has options to keep the pressure going. As a result, the defender is further incentivized to take risks to find a way out, because not pushing buttons/jumping is a big risk in itself--Sol will Wild Throw you eventually, and that leads to more damage than Street Fighter's universal throw.

I wouldnt say that. Guilty Gear might seem like a very offense oriented game, but in my opinion it's actually just the reverse. The player has a ton of defensive tools to his arsenal in order to counter the opponents offense, and in most cases, the player with the better defense and/or calmer mindset while defending will outplay the other. Dead Angle, Throw, Just Block, Faultless Defense, Roman Cancel Slowdown (which makes reversals much more reliable), Blitzshield are only the general defensive options the player has, and character specifically have even more (Sol has VV, Riot Stomp, DI, TW, Air Throw...). It's just because of these tools that it's pretty difficult to safely setup a WT attempt. Sure, you can do 5K, 5S, 2S run up WT. But if the opponent FD everything of that, you're going to be bloody obvious if you run all the way just to WT.

12 hours ago, Vizer-1 said:

And some quick questions: in Guilty Gear, should I expect (with any character) to always get small combos midscreen, and huge ones in the corner? Every game has corner-specific combos, but Guilty Gear's seem far more important.

Depends on the character but thats the gist of it. That goes for every fighting game tho. Preferably every combo in the corner results in a clean okizeme, so if you sacrifice 1 point of damage to get a clean gunflame YRC mixup instead of a combo that enables the opponent to recover in the air its worth it(unless you do it on purpose to plan a air throw attempt).

12 hours ago, Vizer-1 said:

Because of Sol's weak high/low game, is it alright (or even advised) to use 2P/5K over 2K for confirm strings?

I typed this on my phone before reading the whole Q&A thread because I wanted to get this off my mind. I hope this wasn't all asked already. There's a lot of good info here, so I'll read it all later today!

2P is amazing to fish backdashes since you can OS 2P, 5K against most characters. 2K would not be fast enough. 5K is very fast and because of that a reliable frame trap tool. I'd say almost every normal of Sol has its uses for confirm strings dependant on what you want to achieve. I tend to ignore 5K outside of neutral because of its great damage scaling, but thats only personal preference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Vizer-1 said:

I need a basic logic check to understand the game better. If any of the statements I make are wrong, let me know and I'll learn!

Sol's Wild Throw is a great tool for turning pressure into damage. Because Sol has a weak grounded high game, and because corner IADs in Guilty Gear are easy to react to and block (or even punish), Wild Throw/frame trap is Sol's primary mixup, where Wild Throw is the threat that makes people want to do things that lose to frame traps.

And yet, good Sol players rarely use Wild Throw (relative to the number of times they opt to push buttons at frame advantage instead). And Sol's opponent still gets caught doing things that lose to Sol's buttons.

I think there are two major reasons for this. First, if Sol goes for a Wild Throw and his opponent jumps or hits Sol with a button, the opponent gets decent damage, knockdown, gets out of the corner if he was there, and now it's the opponent's turn. Momentum is huge in Guilty Gear, so this is an enormous win for Sol's opponent; not only did he get out of Sol's offense, but he starts his own. In contrast, if Sol goes for hitconfirms instead of Wild Throw, at worst they turn into safe blockstrings from which he can spend meter (on Gunflame YRC) to try again.

That makes Wild Throw high risk, high reward, unless the risk:reward ratio is tipped in favor of the reward, via the opponent having bad hit confirms, or blocking a lot.

The second reason Wild Throw isn't often used but opponents still get hit by Sol's buttons is because of Guilty Gear's offense. In Street Fighter, when you have frame advantage you get a brief period of  mixups, but once you get pushed out by the opponent's blocking, there aren't many ways to recreate the advantageous situation, you just have to win the neutral game again. In Guilty Gear, especially in the corner, offense is a lot scarier, and the attacker has options to keep the pressure going. As a result, the defender is further incentivized to take risks to find a way out, because not pushing buttons/jumping is a big risk in itself--Sol will Wild Throw you eventually, and that leads to more damage than Street Fighter's universal throw.

And some quick questions: in Guilty Gear, should I expect (with any character) to always get small combos midscreen, and huge ones in the corner? Every game has corner-specific combos, but Guilty Gear's seem far more important.

Because of Sol's weak high/low game, is it alright (or even advised) to use 2P/5K over 2K for confirm strings?

I typed this on my phone before reading the whole Q&A thread because I wanted to get this off my mind. I hope this wasn't all asked already. There's a lot of good info here, so I'll read it all later today!

You're pretty spot on for the most part I'd say.

I'll add that another reason you don't see much WT in high level play is the existence of fuzzy jump/backdash techniques (buffering in jump/backdash on defense). When players get good at it, you have to really catch them off guard to land a WT. Stuff like empty jump WT or basic tick throws in general aren't as effective on people who are good at it. They can use it as a lower risk escape (in comparison to mashing out, which can result in them eating a huge counter hit starter).
 

Typically that's how combos work in GG yeah. If you don't have corner, it usually takes resources or special hit conditions (like counter hit) to get strong combos.

Yes, the opponent isn't worried about blocking high usually, since 5D is pretty easy to react to. But 2K has some advantages as a low other than hitting an opponent for trying to block high. Say for example they're in blockstun and you run up to pressure (like after GF YRC). If they hold upback, they will high block any non-low attack, or jump if they exit blockstun. 2K would hit them here. The same would be true of an opponent mashing backdash. 2K is good to stick in blockstrings to catch people trying to jump or backdash out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, thanks for the responses to my earlier midscreen Wild Throw question, I am able to do them for the most part (with the exception of a few characters where the timing seems to be much stricter).

Here is another execution question if anyone is kind of enough to answer. So Mocchi has been doing 5S RC > dash tk S VV > 5K etc. as his 5S confirm midscreen. Seems useful for corner carry.

Example vid with timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHpe5lDzOO0#t=16m35s

I am assuming the input is just 66923S and I am assuming my execution is weak and the inputs just aren't tight, but I'm just going to throw this out here and see if anyone has any insight. Whenever try to input the dashing TK uppercut I seem to end up too high, so I end up not recovering in time to hit the 5K.  Any tips?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm a venom player that's been messing around a lot lately with Sol. He kinda reminds me of Terry Bogard in KoF, whom I play and really like his overall stuff. I'm decent with his execution (for what it's worth, I finished his challenges mode) and can do his Dloops pretty consistently... my problem comes from neutral. I'm noticing this mostly against Ky, Ramlethal, Venom, Zato, and Faust.

What tools do I have to get in? Since Venom covers the screen with projectiles, I have that as well as teleports and a few other things I can do with him - but it seems Sol has limited tools. Can't YRC ground viper and the 214K is ass... What are his good buttons? I've won most of my matches with focus on 5K, cS, and air dash P into confirms. His Dust is ass...

Basically, anything that just gives me some general insight on his neutral... that'd be awesome!

Run at them and 5K, f.S, 6P (CH combo), or 2D. j.H is amazing and has 0 recovery frames. Fafnir is a great poke because it's plus on block and has great range while giving a combo on CH.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First off, thanks for the responses to my earlier midscreen Wild Throw question, I am able to do them for the most part (with the exception of a few characters where the timing seems to be much stricter).

Here is another execution question if anyone is kind of enough to answer. So Mocchi has been doing 5S RC > dash tk S VV > 5K etc. as his 5S confirm midscreen. Seems useful for corner carry.

Example vid with timestamp: 

I am assuming the input is just 66923S and I am assuming my execution is weak and the inputs just aren't tight, but I'm just going to throw this out here and see if anyone has any insight. Whenever try to input the dashing TK uppercut I seem to end up too high, so I end up not recovering in time to hit the 5K.  Any tips?

I do 6321473S

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/11/2015, 08:45:40, greatfernman said:

I do 6321473S

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

 

Tried this. This does allow you to get the tk at a lower height easily, but unfortunately it negates the dash momentum needed for the combo since you're jumping backwards, so you end up too far to land the 5K (unless I'm doing something wrong). Thanks for the suggestion though.

That said, I figured out how to do it. There's actually a bit of leeway to doing this combo, and I was originally just trying to do all the inputs within one motion. You can actually just do 5S RC > 6[6]~ (buffer this and start holding during the RC animation) > 923S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, OmoideInMyHead said:

Tried this. This does allow you to get the tk at a lower height easily, but unfortunately it negates the dash momentum needed for the combo since you're jumping backwards, so you end up too far to land the 5K (unless I'm doing something wrong). Thanks for the suggestion though.

That said, I figured out how to do it. There's actually a bit of leeway to doing this combo, and I was originally just trying to do all the inputs within one motion. You can actually just do 5S RC > 6[6]~ (buffer this and start holding during the RC animation) > 923S.

no it doesn't i dash into it all the time. just spin the stick really fast

cancel into dp literally immediately, you have to do it low enough that it looks like you didn't even leave the ground

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, greatfernman said:

no it doesn't i dash into it all the time. just spin the stick really fast

cancel into dp literally immediately, you have to do it low enough that it looks like you didn't even leave the ground

Gotcha. I'll try it again later. Probably not doing it fast enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, OmoideInMyHead said:

Gotcha. I'll try it again later. Probably not doing it fast enough.

i mean if your way works for you then just do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got a question about Sol's safe jump oki(or rather safe jump oki in general)

Basically I have a friend who says he presses grab and block at the time that the jump in attack would hit meaty. What ends up happening is that if I go for the safe jump S he blocks it, if I try empty jump low/wild throw I get grabbed. Is this legit? Shouldn't I counter hit him if hes pressing 4HS if I go for the meaty safe jump S? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't do that kind of "mixup". In GG, there's a couple of frame after blockstun/hitstun/wake up that you're in throw invi state. So what youre friend's doing is block the expected jS for some frames after waking up then press throw - it's kinda an option select. You can avoid letting him do this by do the safe jump landing out of his throw range, or doing some throw-bait option like late airdash jS(not recommend since he can OS anti air quite safely)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but the thing is, when I do a block string from the safe jump he blocks the entire thing, yet he says I would have gotten grabbed if it wasn't a true block string or sumn. 

Like I would do safe jump S, 2p>5hs(saw mugen using this a alot recently and it has been working well for blowing up mashes) but he never gets hit? I'm very confused. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×