[Xrd] Axl Gameplay Discussion

[Digital Watches]

IMO, Axl got a lot of good changes in Xrd as far as being able to win, and a few pretty bad changes as far as reversing some of the more fun decisions they made in AC and +R. Specifically, you've got #R punches and AC+R everything else for normals, which is extremely strong, because that means 5P, 2P, and 3P are extremely fast, but still chain into 6K and 2S, which still pull the opponent back in. You've now also got a 0-meter invincible reversal, which is a strong tool to have in general.

The main thing Axl's going to have a harder time doing is sustaining pressure. Rensen RC not being 25% meter anymore means the pressure extension it provides is no longer going to be happening all the time, which means your pressure is going to need to get tighter in Xrd, with an emphasis on either getting your opening fast (Axl still has good tools for frame traps and low-throw/rashousen mixup, as well as the janky high-low he's always had) or backing off. 

I think Axl is well-positioned to do well in Xrd, but if you were a particularly aggressive Axl in +R (Like me @.@), you're going to either learn to be more patient or get way tighter.

[SuperJ]

bit of a tangent but i wonder if rensen RC rashousen is a thing? according to math you are stuck in blockstun for literally more than a second after a well timed rensen RC

[Digital Watches]

Well, it works in +R, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't in Xrd. I'm a little iffy about how useful it is, given you'd probably need to be pretty close, you'd spend 50% just to get it, and it's either rashousen damage or 50% more meter for the RC into combo. However, what's insane to me is that oki rashousen appears to work in this game, meaning that you can spend that 50% for a near-guaranteed corner combo on their wakeup (I'm sure reversal DP can get out of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if you can space it so that they whiff).

[setsu113]

Damn... rensengeki RC.. rashousen ... 5k ... 2s ... jhs ....d ... axl boomber ??!

[Digital Watches]

Yes, these moves and more are available to you if you're playing Axl Low. And if you act now, we'll throw in a real DP for free!

[Horokei]

Xrd Rashousen is a command throw according to framedata.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bLI6KFcuPKRMJydrWQSRS8OYJom-qq4XxJtyQp2YH7I/edit#gid=1103718533

 

That sucks. Old tricks would not work.

[shtkn]

that's debatable, potemkin heat knuckle is listed as an air throw too

[setsu113]

Axl is going to be so sweet to play with that new Dp. Ive managed to learn how to play him fairly good.. cant wait to come up with some funky combos haha

Digital watches you mah inspiration dawg! Haha

[Horokei]

j.H can cross-up now

[Baf0]

I'm having problems with TK Bombers, Help? I tried doing 6239 but it doesnt work.

edit: I'm having a bit of success with 6923, is this the only way to go about it?

[Digital Watches]

Well, back in #R there was a minimum height, wouldn't be surprised if this is true again. 6923 and 6321473 are both good inputs for reliable TK bomber, but 6239 will work if you just get the hang of the delay you have to use. It's not so much about the input as when you hit the button, since you have to be a certain distance off the ground before the move will happen.

[fogelstrom]

No problem with TK bombers in Xrd for me. But I'm using 6321473 as input. I got extremely sloppy inputs so this works wonders for me as TK SRK motion.

Only issue is if I miss up or press HS to early I end up in the stance but out of like 20 quick attempts in training mode it happend twice whilst just messing around.

[EffinMadness]

Just patiently waiting for someone to make these B&Bs I'm not an innovator

[Digital Watches]

j.H can cross-up now

> Promote to article

[Epic]

This new Axl feels like a mish-mash between #R and AC version. Playing him feels the same like always (minus lack of FRC), you just have tools from several different games. Rensen no longer knocking the opponent down still pisses me off, but what can you do.

 

Oh and can they release the sticks for PS4 already, please. Playing on a pad is a nightmare.

[Hyuuga_brandon]

Hey guys, new recruit to the Axl army, i'll be around!  

[fro_of_fighters]

This new Axl feels like a mish-mash between #R and AC version. Playing him feels the same like always (minus lack of FRC), you just have tools from several different games. Rensen no longer knocking the opponent down still pisses me off, but what can you do.

 

Oh and can they release the sticks for PS4 already, please. Playing on a pad is a nightmare.

Hori released a PS4 stick already. If you don't care about Sanwa parts it's what's available now. Otherwise you gotta wait on them super-limited quality Mad Catz ones. 

Also, hi All! New Axl player from Saudi Arabia here (mained Baiken in AC+R, so... yeah)

 

I only barely dabbled in AC+R Axl before this, so the biggest standout different for me so far (apart from how the P moves work) is the DP. Having that makes such a difference in his defensive game. Now, how are you guys seeing this Sparrowhawk business? I know there was some discussion on it way back in Feb but I kinda wanted to check opinions on it now since it's the one truly new thing Axl has. I would ask about DP but I don't think there'll be much disputing that having it is awesome. :D

[trippinhobbit]

The new stance is pretty whatever.  You can use it after RC from dp or rensengeki + up ender for pretty decent damage and go right back into stance to try and catch the opponent being antsy/force out meter or do lots of chip.  It's not really a big deal, but then again, neither was the special that was previously on that input.  Right now I've been getting lots of respect when I'm in the stance full screen, but I've seen it get blitz shielded and punished, and some characters can just straight up get advantage if they block all of the hits and run at you.  One benefit of it is if you are in stance and they run at you, you can YRC it after recovering from any of the six attacks you get, just don't RC when he's spinning the sickle, you'll get PRC.  One thing to note is that it still has a hitbox attached to it like all of axl's chain normals, and I have been CH a couple times by assorted moves on the full extension of the low and mid stance attacks.

[fro_of_fighters]

The new stance is pretty whatever.  You can use it after RC from dp or rensengeki + up ender for pretty decent damage and go right back into stance to try and catch the opponent being antsy/force out meter or do lots of chip.  It's not really a big deal, but then again, neither was the special that was previously on that input.  Right now I've been getting lots of respect when I'm in the stance full screen, but I've seen it get blitz shielded and punished, and some characters can just straight up get advantage if they block all of the hits and run at you.  One benefit of it is if you are in stance and they run at you, you can YRC it after recovering from any of the six attacks you get, just don't RC when he's spinning the sickle, you'll get PRC.  One thing to note is that it still has a hitbox attached to it like all of axl's chain normals, and I have been CH a couple times by assorted moves on the full extension of the low and mid stance attacks.

 

 

Seems to be pretty similar to what I've experienced so far with it. It definitely works better if you've got them scared so that the second-guess whatever counter measure they have, but that's Axl in a nutshell isn't it?

 

I'm still feeling out how his matchups work, and since we don't have a matchup thread yet, how do you guys see the Faust matchup? I've got a local Faust rival who I've dealt with OK so far, but it feels to me like there's something he isn't doing right because I feel almost too comfortable at neutral. I've taken to using 2K to low-profile his 5S and use that to gain advantage, and otherwise just play a normal spacing game and play some janky rush-down if I get the chance (especially since 6H is silly on Faust's super-low crouch). I rely mostly on 6K for anti-air since Faust is big enough in the air and his jump angles tend to go in that direction. This is assuming I'm winning the ground game, which please tell me if that should normally be the case. 

[trippinhobbit]

While I don't have much experience with the Faust matchup, from what I've gained in the few times I've played against Faust and watching match videos, you need to play a spacing game until you can get in - and then you have to keep your pressure tight.  Throw lots of 2p and 5p and pay very close attention to the item that pops out because if he gets poison (and avoid being CH in the middle of 5p or 2p), you want to be ready to Rensen or 6k, and if he gets Hammer watch out for a CH on 5p if you've been throwing it out.  I feel like I my chains just get counter hit by a bunch of bunch of moves Fausts tend to throw out like f.s and 5k, and especially on Hammer. Gotta watch out for fishing hook too.  Also when you are rushing down take care with over using jump cancels in pressure because Faust anti-airs are tough to deal with.  He's got such good buttons I think you have to play pressure a little unconventionally, and really abuse low throw (with 2k of course) as much as possible, be careful with raeisageki and 6H YRCs. I think in neutral you should try to fish for CH 2p Rensen, and also look for neutral YRC opportunities to catch Faust's going for TK or SJ item throw. If you can get a good position after a neutral YRC you can dash 6k for easy 2s pickup and into hard knockdown from bomber.

[Sking]

Something I don't like from the new axl is that resen is no longer a knockdown... I rely to much on knockdowns with axl... So what are my options to get a knockdown with axl now?

[Mr.Sparkman]

Something I don't like from the new axl is that resen is no longer a knockdown... I rely to much on knockdowns with axl... So what are my options to get a knockdown with axl now?

You can get a knock down off a throw into (weight specific stuff) then tk bomber, sideswap move on hit, and high counter. Probably Rashousen too, but I don't use it often. I think counter hit dp gives you time for a running jump into a delay airdash/low mixup.    

[fro_of_fighters]

While I don't have much experience with the Faust matchup, from what I've gained in the few times I've played against Faust and watching match videos, you need to play a spacing game until you can get in - and then you have to keep your pressure tight.  Throw lots of 2p and 5p and pay very close attention to the item that pops out because if he gets poison (and avoid being CH in the middle of 5p or 2p), you want to be ready to Rensen or 6k, and if he gets Hammer watch out for a CH on 5p if you've been throwing it out.  I feel like I my chains just get counter hit by a bunch of bunch of moves Fausts tend to throw out like f.s and 5k, and especially on Hammer. Gotta watch out for fishing hook too.  Also when you are rushing down take care with over using jump cancels in pressure because Faust anti-airs are tough to deal with.  He's got such good buttons I think you have to play pressure a little unconventionally, and really abuse low throw (with 2k of course) as much as possible, be careful with raeisageki and 6H YRCs. I think in neutral you should try to fish for CH 2p Rensen, and also look for neutral YRC opportunities to catch Faust's going for TK or SJ item throw. If you can get a good position after a neutral YRC you can dash 6k for easy 2s pickup and into hard knockdown from bomber.

 

Thanks for the input! 2P vs. his f.S seems to make up the ground game against him, yeah. Honestly if it weren't for hammer I wouldn't be so afraid to throw buttons against him. So you don't think it's worth low profiling f.S with 2K at all? In my (limited) experience it felt like after I did that he had to respect anything I threw at him from that distance. He can't f.S again because I'll hit him first. Granted it's not a huge advantage but something to discourage him from that one button sounds like a good deal. 

[setsu113]

I miss axls ability to sweep after c.Hs. and follow up with a rensengeki. Damn not to mention him losing his 5P and 2P vacuum

Ughh.. i would love a patch

[trippinhobbit]

Thanks for the input! 2P vs. his f.S seems to make up the ground game against him, yeah. Honestly if it weren't for hammer I wouldn't be so afraid to throw buttons against him. So you don't think it's worth low profiling f.S with 2K at all? In my (limited) experience it felt like after I did that he had to respect anything I threw at him from that distance. He can't f.S again because I'll hit him first. Granted it's not a huge advantage but something to discourage him from that one button sounds like a good deal. 

 

It's always worth low profiling things with 2k.  Good for high jump ins and high flying projectiles like stunedge too (something i'm still learning to do - my main training partner is a ky player).  

 

Also yeah the 2h 2d chain loss is definitely my least favorite change.