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AtTheGates

[Xrd] Chipp Zanuff Gameplay Discussion

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Your problem is that standing HS has really slow startup (10 frames!), so when you do 2369P immediately after pressing the HS you aren't giving Chipp time to finish the HS's startup and transition to jumping. What you need to do is perform the input slowly enough so that you get the jump cancel, but fast enough so that you actually get it as a combo.

 

That said, I'm pretty bad at actually getting the combo consistently outside of training mode myself, so I don't really have any tips for you in regards to actually executing it. Hopefully knowing why it's not working will help you though.

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I don't think much advice can be given. If a ground alpha comes out instead of air alpha, you did the TK input too fast. If air alpha didn't combo, you did it too slow. You have to build muscle memory with the right timing, pretty hard.

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I found something strange (at least for me) in training mode:

when I do a combo like this

midscreen gamma hit -> run up 5S 5H j.P j.P j.K(2) j.D 236P(whiff) wallcling

 

why is there a huge recovery on empty dive from wallcling? It makes it impossible to do the dive -> 2D on oki. There is never this much recovery on it when you do standard oki from standard corner combos.

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Crossposting from the combo thread, I'm pretty sure this is the reason: 
 

Regarding landing recovery, as far as I know (feel free to correct me) you get additional landing recovery if you do wall cling after alpha, and this applies no matter what, even if you roman cancel afterwards or do one of the followups.

 

It's the same reason you can easily followup after air leaf grab if you do it from a neutral wall cling, but can't do it from the alpha blade wall cling tech trap.

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Hey guys. I was wondering if there's any tips on how to get a backwards airdash after a wall cling to wall dive. I know it's possible, but I can't seem to get it out of a 22HS teleport to wall cling. 

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you have to do the TP with 228HS command. It's not that hard to do. And after the wallcling you have to input the directions like lightning. 236P46 4 66  is a pretty ridiculous motion to do in that short time.

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you have to do the TP with 228HS command. It's not that hard to do. And after the wallcling you have to input the directions like lightning. 236P46 4 66  is a pretty ridiculous motion to do in that short time.

Ahh, I had to do 228HS, makes so much sense but completely slipped my mind. Thank you.

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havent posted in a grip so heres a forbidden sarvets technique.

 

fast star cancels all recovery on jump d. use this on a grounded opponent.

make sure to toss the fast star just before you hit the ground. This will give you a no recovery landing jump d forever as long as you have a fast star spent as you land.  feel free to experiment with other moves  

 

 

its even better than it sounds.

 

Chipp can do backwards air combos with c.6d run, halt, 8 into whatever. he faces backwards after neutral jump if you time it correctly. not a solid thing but more for style etc.

 

hope everyones doing good out there! long live chipp. 

 

also for anyone that knows mamiya in hnk.

 

i tested for about an hour and a slow star, even at full height in opposite corner 

...

will not appear in the next round for a hit after a round win. this game does not store a projectile from one round to the next. 

 

while im at it i run into a pretty hefty amount of chipps that didnt know:

 

do a regular jump. as soon as you land do any teleport. anything post teleport has been jump installed for you. including air etc.

reg jump to air tele on landing is no joke. 

 

 

I have more info...but i aint telling until you buy me a drink

 

 

@sarvets 

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Ahh, I had to do 228HS, makes so much sense but completely slipped my mind. Thank you.

 

you have to do the TP with 228HS command. It's not that hard to do. And after the wallcling you have to input the directions like lightning. 236P46 4 66  is a pretty ridiculous motion to do in that short time.

 

 

Ahh, I had to do 228HS, makes so much sense but completely slipped my mind. Thank you.

 

 

You have to keep in mind that if you did/ didnt already spend an airdash up to this point. in certain situations even post j.i you may have spent the airdash up to that point and not be able to air dash off of wall. it is VERY important to know this because thinking you have one when you dont can get you lit up. as for back wards air dash off of wall my best advice is to just know thats what you intend to do and commit to the input fully. there is a point close to the ground where he will not be able to airdash off of wall so be mindful of that.

 

for wall to air back dash combos i just input the directions immediatley after the down ward dash. you can also use the high wall jump with any variation of air dash as well. the are both very useful so be sure to experiment alot 

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you have to do the TP with 228HS command. It's not that hard to do. And after the wallcling you have to input the directions like lightning. 236P46 4 66  is a pretty ridiculous motion to do in that short time.

you can wall dash to backwards air dash raw. you dont have to enter into it that way. any situation where you go in without a an already spent air dah will let you do this. in a combo make a habit of ALWAYS j.i as much as you can because yes what freelander said is true it allows you triple jump and airdash post knockup teleport etc. but just to clarify wall dash does not have to be part of a combo. he just has it

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In the Revelator streams I noticed that Chipp was able to recover and perform another move after slow shuriken. He did fast shuriken, j.D and alpha blade. I don't know if you keep air options after slow shuriken but I definitely saw him throw 3 shurikens in a single jump. I guess there are secret balance changes that we weren't told about.

I didn't see any Chipps use the new sideways dust but I think it'll probably be really useful for Chipp, since you can get a knockdown after using it so it's basically free corner carry. 

Also I might be (not) seeing things but find me looked slightly different, it's hard to tell but I think the transition between invisible and visible and back again happens slower than 1.1 so you get more a tiny bit more time where you are actually invisible.

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it's possible in Xrd already to move after slow shuriken, no idea if they cut recovery even "more" in revelator.

i asked chappu yesterday whether he noticed any changes, he said "no". hopefully something will surface, but it's looking grim.

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So, at 1:05, the uppercut part of the Banki Mesai doesn't come out? Why? Is it because Pot is high enough so the last hit before the uppercuts doesn't connect?

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I picked up Chipp recently and I have some questions

  • On confirm is actually worth finishing off the rekka? I can usually do 236 S twice but finishing off with 236 K or HS doesnt seem worth since one has startup and one has a bunch of endlag even on hit
  • Is it generally better to use 6P or 2HS as anti-air?
  • Since you can't reallly combo much with Alpha Blade is it better to use it an occasional surprise attack on the ground and sometimes in the air for Wall Cling?
  • Gamma Blade is slow so often should it be used. It seems to be decent for okizeme and maybe if you can get a hard read from a good distance?
  • How often should you use Invisibility/Tsuyoshishiki/214K? As an occasional mixup when safe or with YRC?
  • When doing 22S/HS teleports in neutral are there any other good options to follow up besides jHS, FD cancel or YRC?
  • His command grab is pretty slow and can be hit out of (especially with reversals) so it should only be used every so once in a while right? Seems best if you can get a wall cling.
  • With Shuriken since it alternates I'm trying to find good ways to take advantage of the different speeds and angles. Is it better to use Slower version for stopping some approaches and maybe YRC? Faster versions seems better since it can be used both to get in and to zone.
  • Is there any use for Wall Cling > P, S, H? I can see the use for Kunai and the other movement options but Alpha and the Genrouzans seem like they have too much startup/endlag.
  • In Neutral some different options to do are.. all 22x, occasional Alpha Blade, double/triple jumping around opponent, cS/fS pokes, occassional Gamma Blade, occasional command throw, Shuriken depending on distrance. Any other options to consider?
  • As far as Overdrives go it seems most good players tend to use Ryuu Yanagi / j214214K as a sometimes neutral option and combo ender. Is there much of a reason to save/use meter for his other two overdrives?

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I picked up Chipp recently and I have some questions

  • On confirm is actually worth finishing off the rekka? I can usually do 236 S twice but finishing off with 236 K or HS doesnt seem worth since one has startup and one has a bunch of endlag even on hit
  • Is it generally better to use 6P or 2HS as anti-air?
  • Since you can't reallly combo much with Alpha Blade is it better to use it an occasional surprise attack on the ground and sometimes in the air for Wall Cling?
  • Gamma Blade is slow so often should it be used. It seems to be decent for okizeme and maybe if you can get a hard read from a good distance?
  • How often should you use Invisibility/Tsuyoshishiki/214K? As an occasional mixup when safe or with YRC?
  • When doing 22S/HS teleports in neutral are there any other good options to follow up besides jHS, FD cancel or YRC?
  • His command grab is pretty slow and can be hit out of (especially with reversals) so it should only be used every so once in a while right? Seems best if you can get a wall cling.
  • With Shuriken since it alternates I'm trying to find good ways to take advantage of the different speeds and angles. Is it better to use Slower version for stopping some approaches and maybe YRC? Faster versions seems better since it can be used both to get in and to zone.
  • Is there any use for Wall Cling > P, S, H? I can see the use for Kunai and the other movement options but Alpha and the Genrouzans seem like they have too much startup/endlag.
  • In Neutral some different options to do are.. all 22x, occasional Alpha Blade, double/triple jumping around opponent, cS/fS pokes, occassional Gamma Blade, occasional command throw, Shuriken depending on distrance. Any other options to consider?
  • As far as Overdrives go it seems most good players tend to use Ryuu Yanagi / j214214K as a sometimes neutral option and combo ender. Is there much of a reason to save/use meter for his other two overdrives?

236K doesn't combo unless the low rekka was a counter hit, only use it as a very ocassional mixup, prefereably with meter to RC it if blocked, you can't really get much off of low rekka. if you delay it and it counter htis then you can 2D for a knockdown or off a normal hit you can RC > run up 6P > 5S > 6P > 5S > 2D.

Depends on the move you're trying to counter but generally 2H for jump ins and 6P for air dash in.

You can combo with Alpha blade if you do the instant air version, but generally it's not super common in combos outside the corner. You should not use it in neutral unless it's very occasional as a gimmick. maybe yrc it for the momentum or something and come down with j.H.

I'm not an expert on Gamma blade but I know a few things, it can't cancel from anything, it's +5 so good in blockstrings but risky because of long startup. useful for OTG. If YRC'd you can H teleport and if blocked it will cross up. you can use it after a rekka if you're far enough to punish trying to poke out. If it lands midscreen you should probably do something like 5S > 5H > IAD > j.P/j.K(2) > jD for corner carry. Zato mu specific thing: Gamma blade does kill Eddie but does not dissipate, if Zato runs to where Eddie was he will get caught.

Use it whenever you feel is appropriate, there's no hard rule on this one. Generally any time you can go invisible and not be at disadvantage is a good time to do so. If you end a combo with j.214214K super you should have enough time to do it and still get a mixup.

FD cancel doesn't do anything to teleports afaik, and YRC just gives you opponent more time to react to which side you are on. after an air teleport your options are: j.H, j.D, do nothing land then throw, block or airdash if you super jump installed. if you're going to do j.H then hold 4 or 6 to OS a throw in case they jump.

You're right about command throw, it's pretty easy to counter and doesn't lead to anything unless your opponent was in the corner or you RC. generally normal throw is preferable midscreen unless you have some gimmick set up since you can special cancel into command throw. With the opponent in the corner you can wall cling > wall dive > 5S(JI) > 2H > etc. off the wall you don't get anything unless RC'd.

Slow shuriken is for controlling certain spaces in neutral or getting the opponent to block on wakeup after a j.D and fast shuriken is for stuffing certain approaches, sniping Eddie or punishing an attempted anti-air

Wall cling P is mostly for combos, if you're gonna attack from the corner outside of combos then generally fall j.H is better. the command throws are basically just mixup tools. If they are just blocking every time they're in the corner you can command throw them. If they are trying to jump away or air throw you off the wall then you can pre-emptively wall H to catch them.

That's pretty much your options, but don't forget about airdash, either to approach quickly or backwards to fake your opponent out and see what they try to do or keep yourself safe if you messed up a jump. If they refuse to approach you then this may be a good time to 214K. 2D is also a good poke for Chipp, decent range, fast and a low that gets you a knockdown.

j.214214K is good because it grants a knockdown off of an air combo which Chipp can't get otherwise. Most of the time you'll want to use this. Samitto often gets a corner knockdown, runs up and and does TK j.214214K to get the opponent to block a lot of things and the visual effects hides the mixup. 236236K is useful if you confirm a combo and you know it will kill. It's dangerous if FD'd though because most characters can get a very damaging combo or even IK you in hellfire state. 632146H is rarely used, I'm pretty sure it can only combo from 6H which can only combo from very specific things such as counter hit 6P or a corner combo. It does have full invul starting from frame 6 so maybe you can use it to punish an unsafe approach, very risky to do though.

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Anyone see the psudeo unblockable setups that have been found off of corner 5D wall stick combos.  Basically looks like your command throw / throw is either prioritized over frame 1 meaty attacks or throws can be trigger earlier in the recovery of the wall stick animation before meaty attacks occur.  Instead of shrui I'm thinking Chipp may be able to do something similar with a 5D 214K, 5S, 6P  tk.kuni super, command throw setup.  I'll test it out sometime today any report if I see anything more useful.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s625/sh/0b9eb656-dcb1-4fee-97ab-1b2902696928/d926440e0053c74c42a55e0290a86171

 

Edit: I messed around & didn't seem like this would be possible =(,  bummer!  You just don't have enough time to land and command throw, you might be able to do it if you RC but it seemed like it'd be pretty inconsistent and a waste of meter at that point.  

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Asked samitto for matchups:

 

disadvantageous  KY SI SO EL

normal MI MA FA PO  CH  SL JAC VE IN LE JO

Advantageous  AX BE RA JAM ZA

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I can't find a reliable wall oki falling j.HS cross-up setup against Ky that can also act as a safe jump to his DP.  Best I can do is if he's in corner you can do instant 22HS wall grip ungrip instant j.HS (chipp needs hold back away from corner to safejump & block the DP).  Am I missing something?  His dmg off a CH DP can be really scary to chance.  Most of the setups I've tested are really unreliable based on how far you are away from the corner to begin with.

If you pull Ky out of the corner at all (like he isn't quite in the corner) its completely unreliable.  I know I could YRC to eat his DP input but Id pref not to waste meter like that.  In other news - its very easy to safejump his DP with just 22HS (no wall grab).  Mid screen you can 2D 22P micro dash 7/9 FDC j.HS Drop for a free safe jump (this works against most DPs inc from what I've tested Sol / Axl & Leo... but Leo you gotta time it with him bouncing off the ground).  

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Any good Chipp primers outside the Wiki? I find it lacking. I'm still trying to figure out how to make the JI BNB consistent after a week.

 

- Kimosabae

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