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[Xrd] King Ky - Gameplay Discussion

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Would we say Ky vs Sol in 1.1 is even now or still in Sol's favor?

 

Along with Ky vs Sin is it still in Sin's favor slightly now in this version?

 

Ky/Sol is even until Ky gets hit.  

 

Ky/Sin I feel is actually tipped in Ky's favor despite Sin's MONSTER damage and generally not having access to grounded Stun Edges due to slide.  Ky just has a better time on both offense and defense unless Sin gets his magical distance while Ky's stuck in the corner.

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Any of you guys have some good gimmicks or block strings for Potemkin?  Having a hard time figuring out what i can and can't punish, and what to avoid so i don't get bustered.

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So what started as me trying to hold on to everything I heard since the beginning of Xrd and getting answers to questions turned into a massive detailed project that might even end up surpassing the wiki.  

 

A good portion of this is personal musings and experiences I've had.  The other half is copy-pasta of conversations and questions veterans have given me.  There's still a few character-specific sections I just haven't gotten to write/finish yet, and I have a list of things I'd like to add, including but not limited to:

 

-screenshots of examples of matchup concepts

-video links of top players doing stuff

-writing character-specific combo cheat sheets to compile them in one easy-to-read spot per character

 

But it's what I've got, and it's open to all feedback, suggestions, complaints, thoughts, and most important, information.  

 

Presenting the Holy Ky-ble

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  • Bullet-point the doc, it's kinda hard to read
  • Caution the reader that VT can be low-profiled
  • Ending in Grinder isn't always safe, specifically in the f.S > 3HS scenario you're probably safer ending in fireball against chars like Elphelt and Zato
  • You probably want to add fuzzy-jump into the defense section, it's almost mandatory in some matchups, specifically Zato, El, Sol, Pot, really just almost anyone.

I honestly just skimmed the doc, but it's a little lacking right now. The only thing I completely can't comment on is combos because I don't even lab them.

 

The meat of any primer should be an analysis of the normals of the character; without that there's no solid understanding of any of the tools the character has, and if the person is new they're still at a loss; so until then you don't quite have the Ky-ble yet.

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  • Bullet-point the doc, it's kinda hard to read
  • Caution the reader that VT can be low-profiled
  • Ending in Grinder isn't always safe, specifically in the f.S > 3HS scenario you're probably safer ending in fireball against chars like Elphelt and Zato
  • You probably want to add fuzzy-jump into the defense section, it's almost mandatory in some matchups, specifically Zato, El, Sol, Pot, really just almost anyone.

I honestly just skimmed the doc, but it's a little lacking right now. The only thing I completely can't comment on is combos because I don't even lab them.

 

The meat of any primer should be an analysis of the normals of the character; without that there's no solid understanding of any of the tools the character has, and if the person is new they're still at a loss; so until then you don't quite have the Ky-ble yet.

 

 

Will bullet point, or at least seperate the word vomit better.  Should have a lot of it cleaned up by the weekend.  Also adding in the VT and grinder and fuzzy points.

 

Actually, if someone far more knowledgeable than I wants to write the fuzzy jump section, that would be great as I'm just now learning it myself and am bound to miss a lot or insert wrong information.  

 

Once I get permission, @strawberryfc wrote a fantastic base about Ky's normals that I'll be putting in.  We can expand on it from there.

 

I also wanted to add this section in each character specific matchup for character-specific combos that deviate from the BnB (example: VT loop 5S 236D ender tends to miss on Venom).  Would also like to know if I'm missing any common confirms to add to this list:

 

Character:

Weight:

Wonky hitbox (y/n):

VT Loop:

6H Combo:

f.S CH/crouching punish midscreen:

f.S CH/crouching punish corner:

2H Ciel loop:

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read the doc. it's alright although i don't have too much to add myself, aside from like 2 things.

 

- when i hit a corner dust, i prefer to do 5D6 -> c.S 6P 5H GS 2H VT c.S ciel. i think the damage is about the same compared to c.S 6.P c.S 2H etc, but the big thing i find with it is that you can get ciel ender vs lightweights (the girls). it can be a little finicky based on distance, though.

- i think maybe with matchups, you should have a list of strong normals in neutral? like for example, 2D is notably strong in the millia matchups, beating pretty much everything except 6K, which then gets beaten by f.S. might be able to just cover that in the normal explanation section though.

 

could probably think of more, but i'm a little tired.

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read the doc. it's alright although i don't have too much to add myself, aside from like 2 things.

 

- when i hit a corner dust, i prefer to do 5D6 -> c.S 6P 5H GS 2H VT c.S ciel. i think the damage is about the same compared to c.S 6.P c.S 2H etc, but the big thing i find with it is that you can get ciel ender vs lightweights (the girls). it can be a little finicky based on distance, though.

- i think maybe with matchups, you should have a list of strong normals in neutral? like for example, 2D is notably strong in the millia matchups, beating pretty much everything except 6K, which then gets beaten by f.S. might be able to just cover that in the normal explanation section though.

 

could probably think of more, but i'm a little tired.

 

Thanks!  Really appreciate the feedback.

 

I'll expand on the dust section this morning, though I wish I was at home.  I know on most medium weights, you can do 5H > Ciel and tack on a bit more damage.  However, last time I did this in tournament, it missed on Zato.  I believe there are three other characters that 5H > Ciel ender doesn't work on, but again, I'm sadly at work lol

 

Re: normals in matchups, I started doing this with Venom and I'm gonna work my way around the cast.  I can get the basic framework down, but it's gonna take a lot of massaging/testing/refinement to get it where we need to be.

 

As for the rest of the document, I did drop two major updates last night.  Normals and specials with descriptions have been added (thanks, Strawberry!), and I added a Katame section.  Also continuing to clean and reorganize the word vomit.

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Sin's slide, if instant blocked can be punished if they're doing something like slide > f.S/2S. Neither Ky or Sin should be going in the air since they both have very strong anti-airs, Sin in particular gets like a 50% combo off it.

 

Ramlethal's huge downward sword move is j.H (when she has a sword on her), otherwise it's just her falling down with a ball of light out if she has no swords on her. Doing jump up instant block into throw or jump up instant block - land - throw, jump up instant block, land, 5P > combo all work fairly well, since 6P/2H just won't cut it. Slapping her active swords out in neutral is important, kind of like how we have to slap out Bedman's deja vu icons whenever we can. If she throws out her laser super in neutral you can just reaction ride the lightning to counter it, assuming you're not too far away.

 

Slayers trying to catch Ky jumping out/mashing with their 6H will lose to stun dipper(will get counterhit), in case they're too far away to 2D, or if they'd enter 2D range right when their 6H would hit and it'd be too risky.

 

You should also probably mention in the Sol matchup to avoid predictably throwing out stun edges to end blockstrings, to avoid any grand vipers or if they're feeling ballsy bandit bringer.

 

 

 

In blockstrings, using 6H to reset pressure alongside 6K /can/ be useful, since 6H gatlings off of a bunch of Ky's normals, and cranks up the risc meter a decent amount. It's particularly more useful when both of the players are playing chicken, or you're up against someone without a DP or reversal super. Another thing is if your opponent seems to be mashing out throws/2P in anticipation of the 6K, a well spaced 6H as a pressure reset instead of 6K can result in a juicy punish.

 

2D > 236D > CSE is also a valid and strong oki option you should mention, since it works everywhere and on everyone. Except for Sol doing reversal grand viper of course. You'll usually get it off of something like 5K > 5H > 2D > 236D, or any other combination of "2 gatling'd normals > 2D > 236D."

 

Ky's 6K and 3H move him forward, so it's possible for him to YRC before they hit into a throw. They'd have to beat out 6K or 3H before the YRC comes out or they're guaranteed to get thrown, which unfortunately isn't too hard. Useful to close out a match once in a while when both players are just playing chicken. Examples are xx..2P/2K/5K/5P > 6K > YRC > throw. 3H is a bit difficult to do since it only gatlings off of f.S, but it's still possible.

 

Corner 236D loops do a bit more damage than HVT loops, but they're a bit specific. I don't recall all of them, but I have a few that I'm sure of.

 

Sol specific

214K/Throw > [2H(1) > 236D] x 4, last 2H should do two hits

 

Sin/Chipp/Zato specific, might work on the other medium weights.

214K > [2H(2) > 236D] x3

 

Light weights except Millia and Elphelt(?) I recall that it might be that the timing for Elphelt is really strange.

214K/Throw > 2H(2) > 623H > (2H(1) > 236D) x3
 

Regarding punishes, one of the best you can do in the corner is probably something like

5H > 6K > 236D > 236236P > 2H(2) > 214K > 623H > c.S/5H > 236D

 

 

Really nice work with the Ky-ble writeup. Looking forward for more!

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i like what you've done, but i wonder why wasn't it just added to the wiki instead? authorial control? the ky wiki definitely needs work. i've started filling in the gameplan section,  but combos is very barebones right now.

 

i suppose your doc is more of a "everything" approach and the wiki in theory is more for beginner+intermediate players, but the wiki definitely could use some of the work you've put in.

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Honestly, the original plan for my doc was to be a personal encyclopedia.  Then at Combo Breaker, I met another Ky in my exact situation and shared my notes with him.  Then it just kinda slowly expanded from there.

 

I did think about it overlapping with the wiki, though continuing my doc was in no small part due to the wiki going largely dormant for a while.  I'd love to offer anything I can (and I'm sure everyone that's helped participate in building the doc wouldn't mind spreading the word to the wiki as well).  What do we need to do to get it up to speed?

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i filled in move descriptions, started on gameplan and didn't touch combos. if you'd like to work on gameplan and combos that'd be great. just remember the wiki guide is aimed at beginner and intermediate players so listing ALL combos would be overkill

Edited by shtkn

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your oki section really lacks on some very important things such as sliding cse, rising and falling j.d, safe jumps, low air dash j.s/2s off sweep/air hit ciel, tk s se

 

you should add in basic blockstrings like 2p delay c.s and f.s 2s etc these 2 are very important in ky's katame

 

you should probably go over situational anti airs, such as using 5p, svt/hsvt against crossups, and etc

 

if ppl want i can post some optimized combos off common starters like throw rc, dust homing dash, gs, stuff into slide, etc

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if ppl want i can post some optimized combos off common starters like throw rc, dust homing dash, gs, stuff into slide, etc

By all means, yes!

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I have a free evening tonight so I'll update as much as I can from suggestions on this page this evening. 

Edit: did a lot of cleaning up on the first few pages, added some information, changed a few combos, have to edit a ton of them that are still there.  I have a lot of stuff I need to get out of my head and onto paper about AX/CH/LE/FA, but probably won't be able to do it until Tuesday.  Work + casuals tomorrow is going to eat my concentration time.

Edited by Kizzercrate
Because I'm old school and hate double posting

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So what started as me trying to hold on to everything I heard since the beginning of Xrd and getting answers to questions turned into a massive detailed project that might even end up surpassing the wiki.  

 

A good portion of this is personal musings and experiences I've had.  The other half is copy-pasta of conversations and questions veterans have given me.  There's still a few character-specific sections I just haven't gotten to write/finish yet, and I have a list of things I'd like to add, including but not limited to:

 

-screenshots of examples of matchup concepts

-video links of top players doing stuff

-writing character-specific combo cheat sheets to compile them in one easy-to-read spot per character

 

But it's what I've got, and it's open to all feedback, suggestions, complaints, thoughts, and most important, information.  

 

Presenting the Holy Ky-ble

Since the forum update, the link is not working for me.

Care to share it again? (Write the address and not a text with hyperlink on it)

 

Thanks

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Machaboo Ky showed up on the Playstation Japan stream.  He's doing this thing with Daigo training for Gods vs Pros on August 22.  Last couple of weeks was Sol/Sol to get Daigo up to speed, and last week was Sol/Zato to get Daigo ready for Ogawa.  This week was Machaboo warming up his Ky to do battle versus Susumu Chipp.  I took a few notes of interesting things he did during the netplay set (link to Youtube VOD inside the doc):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qCBJjSQP_RQ_JukHeYnUsIxbHpwfRaOmMAQKO1dwe5M/edit?pli=1

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@Cashus I don't use Skype much anymore, so i'm not sure if they're still active, but if you give me your Skype username I can get you an invite!

We're occasionally active, and did have a Ky workshop several days ago. 

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@Kizzercrate

Great job on the Ky google doc and it inspired me to do one for Ramlethal as well. I've been learning Xrd Ky on the side recently (been using Ky since X2 just learning the nuances of his Xrd counter part) and I could provide some additional insight for the Ky vs Ramlethal match-up in your google doc. Should I just request edit access or is there a better way to provide the information to you to update your doc?

 

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@Kizzercrate

Great job on the Ky google doc and it inspired me to do one for Ramlethal as well. I've been learning Xrd Ky on the side recently (been using Ky since X2 just learning the nuances of his Xrd counter part) and I could provide some additional insight for the Ky vs Ramlethal match-up in your google doc. Should I just request edit access or is there a better way to provide the information to you to update your doc?

 

First off, thanks for the kind words.  Considering the matchup boards just went up today and not everyone has the link to my doc (plus getting more input from both sides is always welcome), we should probably get a thread going on the Xrd Matchups Board.  I would make them myself, but I'm at work and can't do it efficiently.  

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