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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Changes and Discussion

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Speaking of which, I'd really like some more info about his post-patch w[j.B].

What's going on with that normal, I'm still a bit confused since there's conflicting information.

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I take everything Suya says with a huge grain of salt. Doubt that match-up list was meant for post-patch as well.

I also doubt that Valkenhayn is "RIP", just a bit worse (and bit less fun since they took away combo routes).

But we'll see I suppose, it's hard to gauge how bad certain nerfs are right now.

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I think he mostly was talking about pre-patch.

As for jB, do you mind giving the source for "jB leads to the same combo" Errol ?

That sentence would either mean that jB leads to the same combo as jA pre-patch or that jB isn't an S starter but a special starter so it's quite vague.

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it was a takenoko tweet. i was only reading some of his stuff because someone retweeted him laughing at/apologizing to people who thought valk might not be top this time.

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Sorry, the tweet was wolf B and C (grounded) lead to the same combo. wolf j.B is short I guess. same as old wolf j.A.

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Do you mean the tweet translations in general or the question about Tao? Anyway, sorry Kiba, Imma respond to 50-50罠 since I'm already posting XD:

Ah it's alright. I was referring to the tweet translations, as it wasn't relevant to this thread in particular.

Anyway, appreciate the translations Shyn & Errol.

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Ah it's alright. I was referring to the tweet translations, as it wasn't relevant to this thread in particular.

Anyway, appreciate the translations Shyn & Errol.

The tweet translations are actually here to help us get more information about stuff found during JAEPO. This is the most suitable thread for that.

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Sorry, the tweet was wolf B and C (grounded) lead to the same combo. wolf j.B is short I guess. same as old wolf j.A.

Ah, okay. Well, I should have figured as much I suppose.

Things are starting to become much more clear now, thanks.

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Valkenhayn was "RIP", then he didn't have any unfavorable match-ups, and Takenoko's tweets were ambiguous. So I'm still a bit confused, is he dead or as strong as ever :v: ?

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Valkenhayn was never RIP, his w[j.A] is though. The match-up discussion had nothing to do with post-patch.

He's not dead nor is he as strong as ever. He is, without a doubt, weaker than he was pre-patch. Which is perfectly fine and it's what he deserved, just wished that they would have went about it differently, but oh well.

At any rate, he's probably still going to be a strong character in CP.

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More stuff from famitsu:

Valkenhayn:

  • Backdash (human) - duration increased from 13 to 22 frames. Invul frames last from 1 to 7 (rather than from 1 to 5). Now considered airborne from 1 to 15 frames (rather than from 1 to 13). Traveling distance is increased.
  • Backdash (wolf) - duration increased from 13 to 25 frames. Invul frames last from 1 to 5 (rather than from 1 to 10). Now considered airborne from 1 to 21 frames (rather than from 1 to 13). Traveling distance is significantly increased.
  • Negative Penalty Resistance - increased from 2 to 5.
  • Wolf Gauge - after changing from wolf form to human form manually, the gauge recovery is slowed down for a while (the recovery rate equals 1 for 90 frames after switching back to human form, and equals 3 afterwards).
  • Forward throw, backward throw, aerial throw - the damage is now 1400, like with other characters.
  • Wolf j.A - combo rate time is now Moment.
  • Wolf j.B - combo rate time is now Fast.
  • Ground Konig Wulf - start-up is reduced from 22 to 20f. Can now combo from [w]5C.
  • B Konig Wulf - now floats lower.
  • Eisen Wulf - on hit, the hit stop is increased for the opponent (from 0 to 3 frames).
  • Sturm Wulf - the animation now comes out only if the first hit lands. The animation is now faster. Now -22 on block (rather than -32).
  • Stagger - now falls on his back if staggered.

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I honestly didn't expect them to nerf the backdashes THAT hard and for the both of them.

I'm relieved to witness though that the recovery is slowed down instead of stopped.

We already knew the rest however. I wonder though why would they change the stagger.

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Ground Konig Wulf - start-up is reduced from 22 to 20f. Can now combo from [w]5C.

Called it.

Negative Penalty Resistance - increased from 2 to 5.

If I'm reading this right then I like this change. Never liked the negative penalty mechanic to begin with.

Backdash (human) - duration increased from 13 to 22 frames. Invul frames last from 1 to 7 (rather than from 1 to 5). Now considered airborne from 1

Bodied.

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do you actually get neg penalty in CP any? I got it all the time in EX, but even on tsubaki in CP with her 2 neg penalty I didn't really get it.

Was really dumb in EX though because it makes it out like tsubaki is a character that has no reason to be at a distance from anyone.

I think I have literally never gotten neg penalty with Rachel with the 7 rating. but I don't expect having 4 to really change anything either.

I didn't expect Relius/Valks backdashes to get nerfed quite that much ( I thought they would still have the best backdashes), but I didn't really expect the wolf backdash nerf, and certainly not that much. Thoughts?

The wolf gauge nerf seems like it will have a big effect on neutral too.

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Depends on the match-up. In the Tager match-up I get it all the time whereas in most other match-ups I rarely get it. It's a nice change though since it sort of lets us choose how we want to play Valk in neutral. Not only that but with the wolf gauge nerf (which is longer than we initially thought it was at 90 frames as opposed to 60) we'll be able to turtle for wolf meter without having to worry too much about getting negative penalty.

Actually, it's probably my favorite change. Though if I'm not mistaken other rushdown oriented characters (Makoto for instance) have received similar changes whereas zoners are getting a bit of a reduction. Makes me wonder.

And while I didn't expect BOTH of our backdashes to be nerfed that hard I'm still okay with the change.

Wolf gauge nerf is definitely going to effect neutral in a big way, we may have to turtle a lot more (and if you weren't doing optimal Valkenhayn combos before than you better start doing them now).

Speaking of combos, now that w[5C > 236A] has officially been confirmed we may have some new combo routes to mess around with, which is also nice.

Other then that though a mere 2 frame start-up buff on grounded beast cannons really isn't going to make much of a difference, would have been nicer on aerial beast cannons.

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The only real nerf im kinda hurt about is wolf backdash. Im mostly hurt because i didnt get to use it much. I dont think it'll matter though or stop it being a tool on oppo wake up. This makes me think i may end up bringing 44>4+D back.

Overall interested in seeing " significantly increased distance ". If thats good and true the dampened invul wont hurt.

I dont really know about the neutral thing with out playing the game. Question about the wolf meter nerf. Does manual include cancellation into normals?

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

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Question about the wolf meter nerf. Does manual include cancellation into normals?

What exactly do you mean?

Edit: Oh, nevermind, I think I understand what you mean. I believe manually covers pretty much everything aside from running out of wolf meter and being forced to transform back into human mode?

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Ok you answered my question, and i couldn't think of any other way to word it. Sorry if i made your head hurt lol.

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

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Hima has been talking about Terumi combos.

 

One of Valks (I think it was Ryu) was talking about mixing up between j.C and brake 5C, though honestly I saw it coming to this.

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More BBCP 1.1 Valk corner combos from Jasu and Ryu:

 

6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > 236C > tk.214B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3493 DMG] (I think I'm missing something) Source - https://twitter.com/Jusykr/status/446938484154961920

w[j.C > 5B > 5C > 236A > 236B > 6D > j.B > j.A > 5D] > 2C > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B [3128 DMG]

w[j.B > 5C > 236A > 236B > 6D > j.B > j.A > 5D] > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B [2559 DMG]

w[5A > 5B > (Something) > j.B > j.A > 5D] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B [2580 DMG] Source - https://twitter.com/p_RYU_q/status/447060483577638912

Throw > CT > 2C > 6B(1) > 236C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B [3733 DMG]

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Any idea how 236C's been changed to make it a tool in the corner arsenal? Between that and w[5C > 236A] working mid-screen, it seems his character specifics got simplified and combos may have a slight damage boost.

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