Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Changes and Discussion

Recommended Posts

I'll answer your question here.

 

Ok and some how dreize has made it all better. Just curious are you saying w5c> 236a isnt practical because it's not hit confirmable or something. Just would like to understand why you say that.

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

 

Pretty sure that this is how it's going to work. Combo routes that utilize w[5C > 236A] should be practical off of certain starters, such as w[j.C] for instance wherein you're able to properly visualize and react to the initial hitconfirm. 

 

Taking a look at some of his pressure options off of w[5C] and how they lead into his combos:

 

-w[5C > brj.A] leads into 5D > h[5C > 236A, etc]

 

-w[5C > 6D > j.A] leads into 5D > h[5B, etc]

 

-w[5C > 2D > 4C (hold)] leads into w[6D > j.A, etc]

 

But, since w[5C > 236A] is not a legitimate form of pressure it wont always work. For combos that utilize the w[5C > 236A] route to be practical you need to know that the initial w[5C] will actually hit. You don't have the time to properly visualize the confirm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how I didn't realize this earlier but we're still going to have to use w[j.A] for mix-up, don't have much of a choice in this regard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that I've been saying ja will still be used. Just not as a combo tool per say.

50¥ via s3 on tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea and we always have and will always have to, again it will never be a useless normal.

50¥ via s3 on tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea so you just say fuck it, and just know you at least have one bitch on ya dick at all times lol.

50¥ via s3 on tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that I'm done with my break, let's see what we got so far.

About the videos posted by Kiba.

-Like I speculated, cooldown happens whether you're on the ground or in the air. It implies that wolf regen for midscreen BnB is roughly the same than in CP.

-It seems that doing the tk214B>6C>3C ender will give us back the whole wolf gauge used. Doing 6C>3C>236B>(236B) would probably be the way to go for gaining wolf gauge while sacrificing oki. Here's the explanation below:

In this video, Manato used the following combo: wAAABC>wjA>5B>236A>2C>tk214B>6C>3C close to the corner with ~60% wolf gauge. At the end of the combo, he had 60% left.
In CP, the combo gives you back around 10-15% more.

-Seems like instead of doing close to the corner 2C>6C>dash>236A we can now do 2C>6C>5D>w236A. Guess that would be a way to optimize the corner carry combos.

-Wolf backdash is slow and the distance barely changed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Takenoko has moved on to Kagura.

Valk players are slowly becoming a dying breed it seems. This is pretty upsetting honestly. Takenoko is the player I got all my tech from...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who in their right mind drops Valkenhayn for Kagura? Probably has something to do with how Valk plays now. 

 

Did he say why he did it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who in their right mind drops Valkenhayn for Kagura?

 

Did he say why he did it?

I'd like to know as well. First Hima playing Terumi and now this. If the best of the best are dropping Valk, something must not be right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

During the CP1.1 preview, Takenoko twitted first about Kagura and his combos then Valk's and kept talking about Kagura afterwards.

Hima played Valk a bit in CP and stopped playing him completely afterwards. During the preview, he only tweeted about Terumi and didn't mention anything about Valk at all.

For those 2 players, I think they just lost interest in Valk in the first place before 1.1 was even available. 

Also, in case you guys didn't notice, we usually don't have that much Valks per videos/tournament. It's true that we never/barely heard of most of them but I wouldn't call Valk players extinct yet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess the same thing could be said about Zekuso. In the videos we've seen him in, he's been using Azrael. Granted he did also use Azrael before the patch.

 

Uma no Hone also uses Relius so I won't be surprised if he swtiches. We've only seen him once.

 

I believe Yuitaba is still playing Valk, I remember him being the top ranked Valk at one point post patch. Souji has gone back to Arakune.

 

Rankings are here: http://sp.bbcp.ac/ranking_view.php?mode=exe&type=psr_rank&couse=&charactor=vh&pref=0. I have no idea who the 2nd ranked Valk is...profile doesn't match any of the Valks I have listed in the Video Thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanna sub a Valken. Should I wait for the patch or can I work on some stuffs right now? If yes, what? :)

 

When you start off with any new character, always start with normals.  Pokes, anti-airs, overheads, lows etc.  

I would also suggest you familiarize yourself with wolf form/movement as well.  Get comfortable with transforming back and forth.

Most people get hung up on combos, but it's always better to start from the bottom up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only really significant difference between pre and post-patch is wjA substituted to wjB. So you should start grinding him now and simply adjust later considering how steep Valk's learning curve is.

Go first in training mode and get used to move around in wolf mode and use ways to get in like wj66D. I believe that's the first thing someone who wants to pick him up should try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Valkenhayn strategy guide would be a good start. Just the beginning for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First Impressions:

 

I've played about 25 or so matches with CP1.1 Valkenhayn and he feels pretty similar to his 1.0 iteration. Things to note:

 

-You have to play passively a lot more in neutral. The negative penalty buff helps out with this.

 

-Not being able to convert aerial w[j.A] confirms into legitimate combos takes a bit of fun out of the character, as you'll mainly just be doing (AH) w[j.A > 5B > j.A > j.C > dj.D] > j.C or into w[j.B] knockdown.

 

-Can't be too reckless with transformations during neutral due to wolf gauge nerf.

 

-Distance increase on human backdash isn't even noticeable. 

 

-Distance increase on wolf backdash seems to be slightly more than h[4D]'s distance. Don't really like his wolf backdash anymore.

 

-His wolf mix-up is still amazing.

 

-The w[5C > 236A] route is really only practical off of certain starters (the main one being w[j.C] in my opinion).

 

-I've had to use human oki a lot more now.

 

-I don't mind the wolf gauge nerf at all. Gotta pay more attention. 

 

-I'm still trying to decide how his overall practical damage output has changed. Off of less-used starters such as throws and w[5A] we've received slight damage buffs whereas off of primary starters/good starters such as w[j.A] and w[j.C] we've received slight damage nerfs. 

 

-Throughout all the games that I've played thus far I still haven't lost my wolf meter completely. Not even once. It's the same as in 1.0, you should know your wolf-meter-related limits and stop/act accordingly . 

 

-w[j.A] combos that use cannons use quite a bit of wolf meter. Not entirely certain if they are worth it yet.

 

 

Overall he just feels like a tamer version of CP1.0 Valkenhayn. Still a great character. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-Distance increase on wolf backdash seems to be slightly more than h[4D]'s distance. Don't really like his wolf backdash anymore.

 

-The w[5C > 236A] route is really only practical off of certain starters (the main one being w[j.C] in my opinion).

 

-I'm still trying to decide how his overall practical damage output has changed. Off of less-used starters such as throws and w[5A] we've received slight damage buffs whereas off of primary starters/good starters such as w[j.A] and w[j.C] we've received slight damage nerfs. 

 

 

-My main problem with the wolf backdash is that it was real good as an evasive tool, sometimes with a followup 4D, but now you can't even cancel it. It's now easy for Azrael for example to hit out of that with gustaf. Because I someone who relies on it alot I'll just need to adjust and use it simply when I want to create some space and take a breather. I still like the backdash but I have to use it for a different purpose.

 

-I feel that the w5C > 236A route is practical from wB or C attaks because you have some time to adjust but I guess it can depend on how good one's reactions are.

 

-Well Valk's throw damage got buffed. It used to deal 1k, now it's 1.4k so that explains why some of some of his combos are stronger by 400 points. Examples:

 

Forward Throw > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D > j.D > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C] = 2918

Corner Throw > CT > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B~236B = 4k (They tech in air after the followup 236B however)

 

Off certain starters i.e w5A we don't need 6D > j.A anymore, hence the slight damage buff. As previously mentioned any combos involving a jump attack starter will deal less damage because of the universal P1 nerf.

 

Anyway, since we have to play passively it makes some matchups a little more harder for us as sometimes you will have no choice but to let your opponent set the pace. I mean you can still try to threaten the opponent with 5C and 236A but again this depends on the character you're fighting against.

 

Lastly, I'm gonna train to be more conservative with wolf meter. It was kinda about damage before but now I don't care so much about that so long as my alternative combos are still getting the job done.

 

It's all 'bout adjustment!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a few things I found with Kaiser:

Good news:

-h4D seems to cancel much faster now. h4D>w66D in particular is considerably faster. Really useful in some matchups or to deal with people that loves to run away.

-w5C still got the phantom hitbox.

-wjB now always autocorrects after a 1D/2D/3D crossup. Makes IAD>XD crossups much more reliable.

-wjA allow some really nasty reset. Off of 6D>wjA>wjC on CO for example you can do:
6D>wjA>wjC>jump>wjC 
or 6D>wjA>wjC>w5C (frame trap)
or 6D>wjA>wjC>w236C (useful against people who try to throw reject command grabs like Kiba.)
or 6D>wjA>wjC>5D>throw

wjA being a VS now can open up new and interesting resets in order to improve our offense.

Bad News:

-Sadly, it seems that the cooldown only stops after you stick on the GROUND for a set amount of frames (90 IIRC). Basically, it means that whatever air combo ender you choose or the height you are, the cooldown will only disappear once you're in the contact with the ground for 90f. You can easily check it by doing 5D>jump>jD and keep jumping. No matter the amount of time you spend in the air, the cooldown won't lift. I guess it makes 6C>3C ender even more important than before.

-No wolf gauge gained at all in hitstop.

-7D,8D and 9D still don't have priority over jumps.

-wjC's hitbox is still the same as before so w5A/w5B>jump>wjC still isn't an option.

-Any OS relying on wolf backdash is kinda useless now. We however can do instead of brjA>44>w5B, 6D>wjA>4D>wjC. Wolf backdash is more a spacing tool than anything else now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×