Kyle Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Baiken Stats 5.0/5.0 even Great Video examples http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHy1t7hLYuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm9Fm_1YnHQ Yes, I am aware that Reetfighter at this point was still learning, but, the Anti-Baiken strat is there. Openers Her initiative- your counter. BAIKEN J.D- Running OHK once she lands. BAIKEN Tatami – 5HS for Counter hit. BAIKEN 5S- nothing beats this, just guard or back dash. BAIKEN 5HS- backdash, 3K Punishes- Generally no tension- OHK General 25%- 66, 5S, 2HS, FBSHD, 66, 5S, 5HS, Delay, SVD, 5S, SVD, 5S, 5HS, HSVD. Suzuran (63214K)- She is Low and Throw vulnerable, OHK or 2D her. TK youzansen- Guard, CH 5S, 66, Lame loopz SlashBack the third hit of 2HS, as it always gives you CH 2HS. ^_^ Very easy to instant block 3rd hit of Baikens overdrive + anything (ohk) probably. Slashback kabari/tetsuzansen, and you are in her head. This isn’t easy though. 3K works great rtl42 Counters CH J.HS if you KNOW she will IAD Backwards and Tatami, throw your IAD J.HS. This is VERY risky though. CH SVD when she gatlins into 5D, she will gatlin into 5D. Baiken likes to air dash in with J.S/J.P/Tatami, be patient, often you will get CH 6P combo. Round winner = May. Do not 6P or 3K for CH against kabari/tetsuzansen; (chain pull). Anti Airing- PROPER anti-airing- 6P is not a catch all. 6P for Air Dash only Air throw, Jump, IB, land throw. Only Anti-Air J.Tatami is specific scenarios Run underneath her J.HS punish her landing. She shouldn’t be able to SPAM this. “As a general, you can AA the fuck out of baiken, it's just situational, a jumping baiken, is a baiken that is nervous / doesn't know what their doing / trying to lure you into a mistake, so just let them IAD backwards all day and just look out for 1mm tatami...” SH_ “While it's true that there IS a risk to doing it, since a CH air tatami is a big combo for Baiken, the thing is that if you hit Baiken while there's an air tatami out, the tatami will disappear (unlike other characters' projectiles, which will stay out even if they get hit). You CAN (and SHOULD) anti-air Baiken's air tatami if she's (mindlessly) hopping around and throwing out air tatamis. If Baiken does a late air tatami on your wake-up (you should be able to see this), you can punish this too.” rtl42 “May can run up and 3K under IAD back Tatamis if Baiken is too close or doesn't do it at the absolute lowest point possible. This is incredible annoying for the Baiken player.” Hellmonkey "Also, I don't know if you mentioned this, but one thing about May is that since she's so floaty, it makes it incredibly difficult to get a tensionless pickup after her tatami hits (with j.P). On almost all others characters (save BA, MA, JA), it's relatively easy to get j.P after Tatami. In the corner it's still doable, but make sure to tell folks to definitely tech after the ground tatami hit. If they miss 1 frame, a noob Baiken would get free combo continuation where there should have been none." Agile Zoning You can’t zone Baiken. Well… your options are limited, keep reading. Dolphin Hoops are OK, just keep your mix-up to landing low, landing throw or late air dash combo. Use this to bait alpha counters. Their game plan Use infinite Alpha-counters to get out of pressure/lock down/mix-up. IAD tatami, J.hs lockdown, big dmg, always knockdown, midscreen CH 5S/2S, tick throw in corner to get an easy 45% combo, “guard building” pressure, getting a knockdown via j.D combos ~ IAD tatami pressure. If she pressures 6P, you pretty much want to guard high b/c it doesn't gatlin to any lows, all she can do is special cancel and jump cancel. When she has tension she will do 6P, TK youzansen, RC, Tatami… On a side note regarding YZN, if it's done amidst pressure, there's only a few moves it can be done from (JC-able ones): 5P (rare) c.S (most common) 6H (rare) 2D (rare but my favorite, no one else in the game has forced low block to forced high [i think]. 6P (Often) Also, some of her tech throw traps: (note that all of these tech traps are very easy to option select FD or grab) * ground tatami hits MA (non-CH): dash forward, SJ air throw (if back/neutral tech). This one happens pretty fast so you should tech + dash back pretty quickly to avoid this one. * j.K + jump inside combo: so either at the end of a dust (or other combo) if BA still has a jump, she can just do j.K > jump > air throw (if back/neutral tech) * YZN: if YZN hits lowest point and MA spams forward tech, BA can jump straight up air throw * Dustloop false KD for airthrow reset (only when MA in corner): normally when BA goes for KD she'll do something like her BnB and end it with air dashing S>D. There's a relatively safe reset tech trap here for an opponent trying to tech here. If the BA players lets the Slash hit and omits the Dust KD, on back/neutral tech, jump straight up air throw, or for forward tech SJ backwards air throw. I'm not sure what to do here, and this one is very rare, but I've seen some JPs do this in videos. May's Strategy -You have no offense at Far-ranged ground-to-ground. Nothing gonna hit fool. -She beats you mid-range ground-to- ground. Her 5FS and 2S will lead into Tatami for GREAT damage and CH you out of everything. If you do land a 5K or 5FS your damage potential is significantly out done by Baiken 5Fs Tatami FRC... death. -She beats you ground-to-air. Her 6P is one of the best in the game; it will beat May’s J.HS at many distances. If your going to come in from the air J.S is best, because you can jump cancel it. -She beats you air-to-air. Not all the time though, as your J.HS can beat out most of her jumping moves leading to CH, in this match is the WIN. Her J.S and J.D have great hitboxes and are very annoying. -You beat her ground-to-air, unless she used Tatami. I can not stress how important anti-air is when fighting Baiken. She can not alpha counter in the air, this is your chance to mix-up air throws, tech traps/grounded hits and zoning tactics. 5HS trade is pretty good too. Beating Baiken is all about understanding close ranged ground-to-ground options. Because she can alpha-counter infinitely, there is a good sized don’t list you must follow. DON’T DO THIS SHIT AGAINST BAIKEN -Pressure strings/ Build guard bar -Pressure/Poke w/ a charged dolphin when you can’t FRC to guard -Let her guard 5HS -Let her guard 2HS -Let her guard J.2HS from high, this only works when it hits her LATE. -Eat her 5D’s they HURT, she will use 5D I promise -IAD at her, she is too short -Knock her down; always do the biggest most bad-ass damaging combo you can muster -Eat her corner throw, it HURTS, she will try for corner throw I promise -Throw Baiken 6K, its throw invulnerable -Back Dash her 6HS -Air recover, then descend with a J.HS, you will find a Tatami surprise to CH the shit outta you. -Air recover, then descend with a J.2HS, you will find a Tatami surprise to CH the shit outta you. At this point you’re saying, WTF M8, without that what CAN I do. I know, it’s fucked up isn’t it? There are 4 effective ways to fighting Baiken - Getting that 1 CH from zoning, then blow HUGE tension for HUGE damage - Baiting her alpha counters - OHK mind games - Breaking her guard with a successful mix-up option. Very Very dangerous. To successfully bait her counters you need to only poke her with jump cancel-able moves and normals with great recovery, like 5P, 2P and 2K. A well timed meaty while landing J.S or J.2HS is good too. You will recover once you land. Sounds lame I know. Because fighting Baiken IS LAME. Lolz Let’s address Baiken's counters and the proper ways to react and punish them. Baiken Alpha- Counters Mawarikomi (K counter): Dashes behind opponent - The basic follow up to this counter is a throw. You dash behind them during their string and throw them. If you're in the corner, this is the easiest way to deal tensionless damage where youshijin isn't applicable or is too risky, as Ouren will whiff into a corner and is extremely easy to punish and Sakura requires 25% to continue the combo. -Once she runs behind you, its 2D combo time baby. Hopefully you’ve had the frames to FBSHD after the 2D, if not just Jackhound…sigh. Youshijin (P counter): Ground chain counter - This counter comes out very quickly, and can be used to punish almost any high air move or slow ground move next to you. -This particular alpha-counter isn’t safe on guards as a 5S, 2HS… will make her wish she didn’t so it. This is the counter she will use when guarding a high J.2HS from May. Bait this with a J.2HS Done low enough, it is impossible to punish with youshijin and will give May a free combo. Ouren (HS counter): Crossup overhead jumping bellyflop - Besides the changes to j.D, this is by far the best thing she got in AC. A crossup overhead that is almost completely safe on block which will knock down on hit or launch for a combo on counter-hit. -Because this move is a cross-up overhead and virtually safe on block, May’s best option is to hit Baiken as she crosses over May. How? SVD sucks in for great damage. That was a free launch mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sakura (S counter): Stabbing invincible thrust of greatness - Sakura is her counter of choice it will punish moves with long recovery that don’t put people in counter-hit state, for example Slayers 2D/6HS and Jams 6HS/puffball. -This is the beast you should be using J.2HS against, but even than it can be FRC’d to be completely safe. It’s good.When you jump cancel to be “SAFE” your best option is usually a J.2HS, but don’t dedicate yourself to just jumping then inputting J.2HS. If you’ve done this and Baiken didn’t Alpha-counter previously, you bet your ass she is going to take the free CH alpha-counter against your J.2HS that you just gave her. So, jump cancel your 5S, than watch, is she did Sakura than J.2HS the shit out of her, if she didn’t just jump away. May’s Advantage in this fight is her OHK mind games. Because of Baikens innate ability to guard, many many more opportunities for OHK arise. I am serious , May needs to empty jump OHK all-day-long. Get in Baikens head. Remember all of those OHK set ups from the beginners guide, USE MOST OF THEM OFTEN. 2K, OHK 2P, OHK 5P,OHK Empty Jump, OHK Wiff a normal on their wake-up, OHK J.P, Land, OHK SHD, Wiff, OHK SVD, Wiff OHK 2D/2HS, Hoops set Cancels! Hoop Set S Wiffs on their wake up, OHK "May can 3K tons of Baiken's stuff, and it should be used because it gets May in for free when it connects, so as long as the fear of it is there for Baiken May's OHK game gets even better." Hellmonkey Finally, the risky but rewarding method- Breaking her guard with mix-up Did you notice I didn’t tell you not to let her guard 5D? Well, 5D is 1 hit, overhead and leads to great damage. Same as 5D, [D] (low). These option include. - 5D, Pro Dust 3. - 5D, [D] (low), SVD... - 6HS, [HS] (overhead), FBSHD... - 2D, FBSHD... - TK, J.RR FRC, 5S, 2HS, FBSHD... All five of these options are acceptable to do on Baikens wake-up, when you have the tension. If they they break her guard, you just did massive damage, if they didn’t RC, or prepare to get a Sakura. This makes the match go by much faster; I would recommend this if - They have shitty Defense - They have EXCEPTIONAL zoning skills that will kill you General comments- If she pressures the chain pull, just 1F jump out. She is very pressure oriented with little mix up, so guard low, and watch for 5D, predict TK Youzenson and react to throw attempts. Bait her super on wake-up. Sometimes she uses it...it actually hurts. Punish this with 3K. Pulsr This match is 5/5 because both combatants do crazy damages and have the ability to KD. May eats the zoning, Baiken eats the OHK and alpha counter punishes. = I would like to give a special thanks to K2, SH_, Hellmonkey, rtl42, Pulsr and ReetFighter/Agile/N8, as their contributions are scattered all over this match-up. Thanks, _____________________________________________________________________ Combo Specific Details. Don’t knock her down; always go for the biggest damage you can get. It’s perfectly fine if you blow 75~100 tension in 1 combo against Baiken. I am listing combo’s that HURT and don’t KD. OHK combo 5S, 5HS, Delay, SVD, 5S, SVD, 5S, 5HS, HSVD 5S, 5HS, Delay, SVD, 5S, SVD, 5S, 5HS, HSVD, FRC, Air dash, J.HS, Land, J.HS, J.D, J.HS, J.D, J.RR 5D combo Pro dust 3, Impossible Dust with a Just frame J.HS, her Slash Back Impossible Dust combo works best. Application - 5D, [9], J.H, J.HS[/9], J.1HS+S, Delay, J.HS, Land, SVD, 5S, SVD, 5S, 5HS, HSVD 6P combo w/o a CH the 5HS wiffs. =( IAD combo Never IAD at Baiken, she is too short. Jackhound reliability Lightweights are hard to KD, Jackhound will usually wiff unless it’s incorporated EARLY into a combo, but than you give up huge damage by forcing proration. Double Dolphin Upper 2D, RR, FRC, SVD, 5P, 5S, SVD, 5P, 5S, 5HS, HSVD 2D/2HS, FBHSHD, J.HS, Land, HSVD, 5S, SVD, 5S, 5HS, HSVD 2HS, 2D 2D OTG’s . 2D, FBSHD, 6P... in corner Application - J.2HS, Land, 2D, FBSHD, 66, 6P, 5S,JI, 5HS, Delay, HSVD, FRC, Jump, J.HS, Land, 6HS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
