[Xrd] King Ky - Combo/Setup Listing and Discussion

[MechaBaphomet]

Another thing I'm working on is my oki mix up. Trying to lock down with CSE, jump, air dash in, then jS, jH, 5K, into stuff. Mixing up the first set of inputs is great, but I'm not sure what to do after. jH doesn't always combo into 5K (height dependent I guess) and I'm not finding a KD route after.

One of Ky's most powerful oki option is to get a knockdown with 2D>236D. After the patch, Split Ciel pushes the opponent far less then it did before allowing you to get the Charged Durandal Call oki anywhere on the screen.

After you send the CSE through the grinder, you can:

YRC>running empty jump>5K>whatever

YRC>running jump>low airdash j.S>j.HS>5K>whatever

YRC>running jump>very low j.S>GS>whatever

These are just some examples of what I use after getting that knockdown. If you mix up enough patterns, it will force your opponent to guess what you're going to do. 

[Tong]

Gonna add and say that empty jump 2S is better. I wouldn't use GS to open someone that way, you'd lose all the advantage and even get punished if blocked.

Empty Low/Airdash are strong mixup options and true 50/50's, that let Ky keep the advantage even if blocked.

[Koga_Noid]

@ehuangsan I tested SVT trade burst IK setup against Faust j2K; burst took way too long to activate.  We landed at the same time.  I also saw your post in your +R Trade Secrets thread and wanted to ask--are you using the invincible startup (which doesn't start on frame 1 for Ky IIRC) to get the setup?  In Xrd, I'm just using IK activate as a flashy burst bait and killing off of AA c.S or 2HS instead of gambling with frames.

@Koga_Noid I like this idea midscreen, especially since it's pretty much impossible to kill otherwise.  Can Ciel stagger be mashed out of at further ranges, perhaps off of max range 5K or 2S? 

Also this new forum upgrade is sweet.  Being able to tag people seems neat.

A raw 5K and 2S wouldn't combo into Ciel, and you'd have to be relatively close for 5H < Ciel. The last option works pretty well, I set the dummy stagger and stun recovery to quickest possible.

Man I gotta get used to this new forum system lol

[Kizzercrate]

A raw 5K and 2S wouldn't combo into Ciel, and you'd have to be relatively close for 5H < Ciel. The last option works pretty well, I set the dummy stagger and stun recovery to quickest possible.
Man I gotta get used to this new forum system lol

Heh, I should have specified.  I was thinking short combos like 5K > c.S > 6K > Ciel RC and 2S > 5H > 6K > Ciel RC.  I was going to test it last night but got distracted by a juicy player lobby (actually I just forgot lol)

[Trep619]

Hey guys is there a corner combo that starts with 6HS that works on everyone and leads into split ciel oki?

If it's a close 6HS, you can get a lot of damage with this:
6HS < micro dash < 5HS < 6K < 236D < 236K
OR if it's REALLY close, and they're already against the wall (Like Sol derping out a ground viper), you can do this:
6HS < micro dash < 5HS < 6k < 236D < 5HS < 236K
Not sure if the last one is character specific, but it might be.

[Trep619]

Does anyone have a reliable 5D opener wall combo that does more damage than mine, and works on all characters (ending with ceil oki)?
Mine does 132 damage to ky and is:
5D < 6HS < 6HS < c.S < 6K < 236D < 236K

[Codename Exia]

The one that I jacked from Kizzercrate is:

5D > c.S > 6P > c.S > 2HS (both hits) > GS > HSVT > c.S > Ceil

Might not be entirely right, but that's the one I do now that's pretty consistent.

[Trep619]

The one that I jacked from Kizzercrate is:

5D > c.S > 6P > c.S > 2HS (both hits) > GS > HSVT > c.S > Ceil

Might not be entirely right, but that's the one I do now that's pretty consistent.

Nice! 135 damage over my old 132. It also gives more time to hold them under ceil CSE, so more time for more mixups like jump airdash. (but less ability for bad players to think they can jump out and get hit by the projectile).

Also is there a mechanics trick to easily do GS into HSVT? Or is it simply a tight timing? That's the one thing I sometimes mess up during VT loops. If I try it a few frames too early it'll throw out a 3HS. It feels like GS landing clears the buffer or something.

[Kizzercrate]

Well, the idea with GS > HSVT (and much later on, dash VT) is you get a lot of time as you're landing to put in the input.  Make sure your input is clean (turn on inputs in training mode so you have hard evidence) and adjust your timing as such. 

There's more cool stuff to do off of 5D6, but it becomes character specific and finicky.  Por ejemplo: 5D6 > c.S > 6P > 5HS > GS > c.S > 2HS(1) > HSVT > 5HS > Ciel.  Works on most normal weight characters not named Zato or Venom (they can tech the Ciel ender and then you get kicked in the face).  The combo Exia gave is consistent and universal (though if you're super pro, you can stick in a 2HS(1) after the GS and before the HSVT on normal weights for a touch more damage).

[xlolxlolx]

on majority of midweights max dust combo is dust>homing dash>c.s>5hs>sweep>3hs>gs>hsvt>2hs2>hsvt>c.s>ciel for 154 on sol on non ch you can do homing dash>j.d>j.s>air s se>3hs into same combo for 1 point higher 

fun fuck you combo on chipp with dust>homing dash>j.s>j.hs>j.d>6hs>3hs>gs>hsvt>2hs1>ciel>2hs2>ciel for 194 

[StrawberryGL]

On the topic of corner 5D combos, does anyone have a good one ending with Ciel against Faust? My best is 5D > c.S > 6P > c.S > 2HS > Greed Sever > 2HS(1) > HVT > c.S > Split Ciel at 139 damage.

5D > c.S > 6P > 5HS > Greed Sever > c.S > 2HS > HVT > c.S > Split Ciel doesn't work because Ciel misses

5D > c.S > 5HS > 2D > 3HS > Greed Sever > HVT > 2HS > HVT > c.S > Split Ciel doesn't work because 2D misses

[Kizzercrate]

 

5D > c.S > 6P > 5HS > Greed Sever > c.S > 2HS > HVT > c.S > Split Ciel doesn't work because Ciel misses

 

Swap c.S after GS with 2HS(2) and see if Ciel hits.  c.S pops them higher and also unfortunately pushes us slightly farther out of the corner.

[StrawberryGL]

@Kizzercrate I'm trying that in training mode now, is it possible to connect a 2HS after GS? I can't get it to land at all.

[Kizzercrate]

In theory.  Either that, or try 5HS > Ciel ender.  It should be one of those.  If not, I'll test it when I get home and see what we can do.

[Tong]

@Kizzercrate I'm trying that in training mode now, is it possible to connect a 2HS after GS? I can't get it to land at all.

It's possible with dash or late GS. On Faust I believe you can do 5D> c.S> 6P> c.S> 2HS> GS> HSVT> etc

[xlolxlolx]

faust is a pile of dog shit and loves dodging ciel so max is probably dust>homing dash>j.shsd>6hs>3hs>delay hsvt>2hs2>ciel for 146

stable combos on him are dust>homing dash>c.s>6p>2hs2>gs>c.s>2hs1>hsvt>delay c.s>ciel and dust>homing dash>c.s>6p>c.s>2hs2>gs>delay 2hs>hsvt>5hs>ciel both for 142 but even then they're not completely stable because of how retarded his aerial hitbox is

[Wutai_Shinobi]

So the j.S, j.H, 5K stuff, I just can't seem to get. 236D > 662D is always too far or late, especially when starting with a jumping normal on the combo. Not even getting a black beat. I know these things work, but practice isn't helping me here.

Is there a less optimal option into KD or dmg? 

[Kizzercrate]

So the j.S, j.H, 5K stuff, I just can't seem to get. 236D > 662D is always too far or late, especially when starting with a jumping normal on the combo. Not even getting a black beat. I know these things work, but practice isn't helping me here.

Is there a less optimal option into KD or dmg? 

Stun Dipper is a thing, though it has tendencies to black beat/uncombo.  For 50 meter in the corner, you get all the juice:

Easy version: IAD j.S j.HS land 5K c.S 6K 236D, DC Sacred Edge, run up 6P 2HS(1) HSVT, c.S 236D

Hard version: take out the 5K when you land

side note: I probably shouldn't give advice without sitting in front of a PS3 and without finishing my first cup of coffee 

[Killey]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this 236D loop combo that Machaboo was doing on the Daigo prep vids. I checked Toushi's combo/setup vid and didn't see the combo though I might have missed it somewhere. Anyways, Machaboo does this Throw RC 236D loop combo at the 1:12:50 mark against another Ky player so I'm assuming this works on medium weight characters.

 

Throw RC > dash 5HS > 236D > 2HS (1) > GS > 236D > 2HS (2) > 236D > 2HS (1) > 236D

 

 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Killey

[xlolxlolx]

max dmg ciel loops have been floating around since january....do ppl really not know about them?

[StrawberryGL]

@xlolxlolx Where are they? I didn't know about them until a couple weeks ago to be honest. We need to add them to the wiki.

[xlolxlolx]

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/byousoku 95% of stuff on here is max damage with a few char specific exceptions

[Koga_Noid]

I practice Ciel loops for the lulz for warmups but I rarely do them in matches. VT stuff just seems better.

[Kizzercrate]

I'm starting to mess with them now and I do like the spacing Ciel loops leaves you at. I really wish they were a bit more universal though.

[xlolxlolx]

hsvt is never better because it has -10 gb