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kaworu

[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

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Looking at some of the combo videos daymendou posted, Helios now has wallstick in the corner. Maybe worth confirming into early in a corner combo for new double (or even triple) seal combos. And dust can be ground combo'd on some characters now thanks to new 6 follow up

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I know I am late but man I am loving how air task B downs people now in 1.1 lol. I am a bit behind, are there a decent amount of bedman 1.1 footage now?

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Ah, I see thx. Yeah it sucks he isn't that much popular in japan. I agree, watching his vids he does look similar but i can see the difference in terms of reward. Man I love those matches of him vs that eddie player lol he is so interesting to watch at that level.

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Is Sol the only character that safejump j.S doesn't work on properly after a task B ender? Also, is sj.882j.P/K/S fast enough to safejump? I love safejumps over task A' sometimes because you get more mindgames.

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I think safejump j.S loses to elphelt's wakeup OD from the task B knockdown.  iirc anyway

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I know that feeling when throw game is not respected at all and was wondering the same thing - how to blow up mashing 5P/2P. I was experimenting with j.3P > 2P > 1/2H to get a decent reward. It works to a certain extent, but it's straying into hard read territory so I can't really recommend it. Maaaaaybe with j3PP prior to 2P>2H chain you'd get better range, but dunno.

 

Other than that, depending on the matchup you can try going for 2P linked to 2K > 2D. 2K is rather good at blowing up other character's 2P. It should work against Ky and nets you quick knockdown.

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Bedman has no + on guard ground normals so the only way to do a frametrap from a ground normal is with a gatling string.

2p > 5H leaves very tiny gap so can frametrap

2p > 6H may work but I think it trades with most 2ps

2p > 1H probably works but I haven't tried

From a blocked jump in though you will be at frame advantage and can frametrap by slightly delaying a c.S.

@GKHiryu

You can't frametrap 2K from 2P. If you gatling to 2k it will be blocked and if you wait till 2P ends then 2K you'll lose to their mashing since 2p is -1.

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It's a ghetto frametrap, I'll give you that. However it does work in certain situations, hence why I suggested it's very dependant on matchup and spacing. Against Ky it's ok because the tip of our kick goes under his punch. Of course point blank we'll lose. Obviously as well, It won't work most of the time against elph or ram, but then again what does.

Besides we can't analyse blowing up mashing with FD alone. If you do 2P, then take a step forward, then 2P again, that seems stupid as hell from FD perspective. Yet 50% of the time it works all the time thanks to human factor. Out of your suggestions I think 2P>5H seems to be the best, I'd never go for 2P > 6H more than once per set due to how obvious 6H is.

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Well turns out I was wrong, you CAN frametrap 2K from 2P.  Delayed gatling from 2P to 2K makes it a frametrap and it's still a combo if the 2P hit.  I find it somewhat odd that I can't seem to delay c.S from 2P at all but I can delay 2K.  

 

Just doing a normal into another normal and beating them is not a frametrap.  Like sometimes I get blocked c.S into coutnerhit c.S.  Yeah that can work but it's not a frametrap cause you aren't actually at advantage.  The thing to keep in mind is that holding 1 and mashing P is basically an option select that only loses to frametraps.  Stuff like 2P walk 2P or 2P walk grab will lose every time if they are doing it right.  

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Well turns out I was wrong, you CAN frametrap 2K from 2P.  Delayed gatling from 2P to 2K makes it a frametrap and it's still a combo if the 2P hit.  I find it somewhat odd that I can't seem to delay c.S from 2P at all but I can delay 2K.  

Huh. Figures I was doing it right and never noticed. I need more lab time.

 

Look, I really don't want to argue. We have a character that's minus on everything (and zero on that one move), so I just called what we discussed a frametrap because we have little to no legit ones. Especially since it's rather easy to recognize a chain and just keep blocking instead of mashing.

I'll keep my terminology in check, but what's important the most is writing down our knowledge and sharing what works.

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2S, c.S and 5P (lol) are all neutral on block, so what this DOES mean is that you will beat FD into mashing.

Thinking about it though, even at disadvantage, cant you frametrap if you're close enough with IOH j.D? Technically its a grab bait, but it serves the same basic purpose. And I only bring this up in this situation because I'm not referring to directly cancelling into j.D, but like 2P, walk, j.D. I dunno if the hitbox of j.D can be 2P'd and is the reason I'm bringin it up

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Thinking about it though, even at disadvantage, cant you frametrap if you're close enough with IOH j.D? Technically its a grab bait, but it serves the same basic purpose. And I only bring this up in this situation because I'm not referring to directly cancelling into j.D, but like 2P, walk, j.D. I dunno if the hitbox of j.D can be 2P'd and is the reason I'm bringin it up

Gotta check this one out more to really answer, but I can say this much. Never attempt that against Sol that's worth a dime. If he grabs with OS 5K he'll take you on a trip to salt lake city.

I've been playing way too much against sol >.>

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Hey, so it's known that Hemi Jack can absorb hits right?  I don't see it in the wiki and that's kind of important.  Bedman wont have to block them, seals are also protected, and it doesn't cancel Hemi Jack either.  It's kinda like when Little Eddie takes a hit for Zato, or when a fish takes a hit for Dizzy.  Except that he can take multiple hits.  I'm messing with it right now and he can absorb all 3 hits of either of I-No's supers.  You can hit him to push him out, but if you use the wrong move he'll just float back in during your recovery and hit you anyway.

 

 

This could have some gimmicky but strong defensive applications in some matchups.  I don't play Bedman so I'm guessing that most of the time that you'd want to use Hemi Jack, you'd probably need 75% meter to set it up with a YRC, or to YRC it to be safe.  You have options like... get one of your Deja Vu seals, then summon it on oki, YRC into Hemi-Jack.  If they weren't blocking they get hit by your seal during the super freeze for Hemi jack, which you might be able to confirm into knockdown (which might be timed so that they wake up into Hemi Jack).  Otherwise you'd really only be able to summon it when you have Deja Vu pressure going and are willing to YRC it to be safe and resume pressure.

 

Task A and Task A` both get canceled when starting Hemi Jack, so you might have some gimmicks there, but for the most part this seems like it would get in the way.  You can probably set up the gimmick unblockable with the Deja Vu versions though, or maybe use the 2 hits on Deja Vu Task A to safely summon Hemi Jack without using a YRC.

 

 

Anyway, I figure you guys have already talked about the difficulty in getting Hemi Jack out and know more about it than me.  I just want to make sure you know that you can use it to take hits for you, which is especially good since it doesn't go away when it takes hits for you.  If you cross them up and get Hemi Jack between you and them, you should have incredibly safe rushdown and pressure options.  Hell, as I-No if I try to get on the other side of Bedman (so Hemi Jack is behind him) and use HCL, Bedman and any seals along HCL's hitbox wont get hit if the HCL reaches behind Bedman and touches Hemi Jack.

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Thanks for sharing info on Hemi Jack, TheRealBobMan. Most of what you said is known and unfortunately, doesn't make this super any less useless. Still, kudos for exploring it. We never know what can be found out with enough lab monstering.

 

And speaking of lab monstering, how do bedbros utilize training mode? I spent hours working on my execution to get proper airdashes, corner combos and still work on improving my defense, but I've very little idea on how to work on gameplan and offense in training. Ofc okizeme is simple enough to practice, for the most part. Aside from that however, do you have any particular techniques to practice matchups solo?

 

So far I've been trying to record and replay blockstrings/oki setups of other characters, to decent results. Unfortunately I've found no reliable way to practice real match situations. Like for example what are my options after TK Task A fullscreen - it's very hard to record and replay opponent's behaviour in neutral. If anyone came up with anything worth trying out, please share. I'm frustrated to no end when I get beaten, work in training on stuff that I can improve, then play versus again and still lose. For the most part, my opponents have their gameplan figured out while I have to try and work on mine during the match, to very poor results so far.

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My training mode experience after just warming up combos shifts to exploring tick throw setups.

I'll see the timing of stuff like varying j.P/K/S heights, see what I can do to make them aftaid of mashing/dping (really good with safejumps), see if I can confirm into knockdown off setups, etc. Also a very good time to work on perfect timing with task YRC's, as well as the none-too-useful-but-still-present task C JI (it does NOT auto JI).

Also, I try out multiple recording for different enders to make sure I can safejump certain characters, make sure A' hits like it should, meaty YRC DV moves properly to avoid DP's.

You cant recreate someone's neutral, but you can work on setting up yours. I suppose you could record doing task A into task B or C, throw in a YRC'd move in there, and try punishing it with certain characters, see what they CAN do vs these moves.

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Anyone else uelse IOH j.D>RRC>j.236HS as a combo? The damage from the combo itself isnt much, but the task seal is perfectly placed to convert 1/2HS into very high damage in the corner. Using chipp to make it sound more impressive, I got 190 damage off 2k

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Not really it's kind of a waste of meter in my opinion considering you can do the j.S 5H into 1H task C which will net more damage for that combo. The Air Task C seal is nice but i don't think that it a good invesment of meter as although it does allow u more combo potential from 1H, the pressure u get from it is lower compare to Grounded Task C. If the opponent is familiar with the match up chances are he gonna tighten his defense and block till our seal run out so we would better be off with the more damaging combos.

 

Personally i only use RRC for 2D into 6H or Task C into 6H for the kill frequently. YRC is  a much better use of meter on Bedman as the thing u can do with it is very rewarding.

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Anyone else uelse IOH j.D>RRC>j.236HS as a combo? The damage from the combo itself isnt much, but the task seal is perfectly placed to convert 1/2HS into very high damage in the corner. Using chipp to make it sound more impressive, I got 190 damage off 2k

Too weak, not worth it.

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I didnt get too much time to mess around with this before I had to go to work, but it seems that taller characters can be IOH with meaty j.k on wakeup before they complete their crouching animation (common knowledge?)  On Sin, I did a combo into Task C, then did DV Task C > 9k > Air Task C.  Which combos for an Air C Seal (though IIRC the Air C hits OTG).  I struggled getting a more effective combo off of it since the second hit of the DV C forces knockdown on grounded opponents, but perhaps y'all can find some fun stuff with it.

 

I've only tried this on Sin and May so far. It did not work on May

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I play versus a friend who plays Axl almost every day, and this match up isn't very difficult but he's the only one who does BS against the task A' on oki.He immediatly follows it with a grab. Can I do anything about it or should I just omit task A' on everyone when they have 25% meter?

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