[P4U2] Sho Minazuki (Tsukiyomi) General Discussion

[Kikuichimonji]

It's cool, I just wanted to let you know about the resources available to you.

[Kikuichimonji]

I've been looking at combos to punish bursts. The best I have is 5AA 5C 5B(1) 2B(1) 5C 214B 4B 4A.

[Cashus]

Decided to learn 4AB>2A route. Whats the tip to landing the 2A? Im doing -5A>5AA>2B>5B>2AB>214A>4A>4AB>2A>5B (1 Hit) >2B>2AB>214B>4B>4A

[Kikuichimonji]

Decided to learn 4AB>2A route. Whats the tip to landing the 2A? Im doing -5A>5AA>2B>5B>2AB>214A>4A>4AB>2A>5B (1 Hit) >2B>2AB>214B>4B>4A

Do the 4AB as late as possible, which is probably later than feels natural. Then you can barely connect the 2A. Doesn't work on Yukiko, Shos, and I think Kanji.

[Skye]

https://twitter.com/okusan_nikuya

 

This guy has the down-low on Minazuki loketest changes, we need a translator, stat!

[xlolxlolx]

ill translate them soon tm.....though i barely touch this game anymore

[xlolxlolx]

5a>4a cant delay as long

5c>sweep gatling removed

5c ground bounces, combos into 2c

anti air 2b>5b>5c>2c>5d stuff did ~3700

j.d/5d/j.c recovery reduced

sb metsu>2a combo is easier, 5b pickup works on everyone too

b shou's float changed, easy for them to fall behind you and drop the combo if you don't hit it properly on airborne opponent

b metsu hitbox changed, right next to opponent after hitting, has very little recovery, a sen>a shou>b metsu>2a~ pressure doesn't end

j.b(1) downward hitbox alot weaker, attack level decreased, air hit ch untech time decreased can pick up if low in air

ground throw doesn't down, throw>rc>5c>2c stuff works

ground dp doesn't down on normal hit and floats higher, comboing into c rengoku floats really high

trajectory changed slashes horizontally now, increased recovery on air dp, cant easily enter awakening

c rengoku startup slower?

getsumen fatal recovery

c and sb mugen superflash only happens on successful counter, recovery is pretty short and hard to punish on whiff

d mugen fullscreen strike like akihiko's mahaziodyne 

 

lol this character, this game

[Cashus]

Do the 4AB as late as possible, which is probably later than feels natural. Then you can barely connect the 2A. Doesn't work on Yukiko, Shos, and I think Kanji.

thanks. I can get it but its weird. Sometimes I delay the 4AB too much and it doesnt combo anymore. very weird

[xlolxlolx]

well i typically do b rekkas into it, max delay pretty much always works best

[Cashus]

^wow that works too. Wonder why I dont see it used as much

[xlolxlolx]

i dont think this is just me but i feel the trade off of damage to meter cooldown isnt good enough to make it worth spending 25 meter, especially early in a round, also the metagame is primarily to try to do as much damage as you can before they enter awakening so you blow your meter and whatnot to kill

 

i find myself doing burst combos much more often 

[Cashus]

Thats what im thinking when im in a match too. Itll be useful to end a match with though if you have low meter. 

[Ohno]

Decided to randomly translate stuff. Most of these are from loketest day 4.

 

5A nerfed (doesn't say how).

Less recovery on D moves.

Float on B Soaring Fang is different (can cancel into Destruction Fang earlier).

B Destruction Fang is super plus on block.

SB Destruction Fang > B Flash Fang > B Soaring Fang possible on grounded opponents.

Since 5C ground bounces, 5C > 2C loops are insanely good.

    antiair 2B starter:  2B(1) > 5C > 2C > 5B(1) > 5C > 2C > 2B(1) > 5C > 2C > 5D > 236C > 2A > 5B > 214A > 4A > 4A does 3850dmg

 

Also it was mentioned elsewhere that 5B is no longer jump cancelable on block

[TheHitmarkersPro]

 

    antiair 2B CH starter:  2B(1) > 5C > 2C > 5B(1) > 5C > 2C > 2B(1) > 5C > 2C > 5D > 236C > 2A > 5B > 214A > 4A > 4A does 3850dmg

 

thank you asw-sama for enhancing our dark messiah

[Kikuichimonji]

Decided to randomly translate stuff. Most of these are from loketest day 4.

5A nerfed (doesn't say how).

Less recovery on D moves.

Float on B Soaring Fang is different (can cancel into Destruction Fang earlier).

B Destruction Fang is super plus on block.

SB Destruction Fang > B Flash Fang > B Soaring Fang possible on grounded opponents.

Since 5C ground bounces, 5C > 2C loops are insanely good.

antiair 2B CH starter: 2B(1) > 5C > 2C > 5B(1) > 5C > 2C > 2B(1) > 5C > 2C > 5D > 236C > 2A > 5B > 214A > 4A > 4A does 3850dmg

Also it was mentioned elsewhere that 5B is no longer jump cancelable on block

The 5A nerf is probably the thing mentioned on Twitter where the window to do 4A chains is reduced.

Why does that AA combo need a CH? Does 2B(1) no longer combo to 5C on normal hit? Also, you can't end that combo with 2B(2) 2AB rekka stuff?

I really hope they keep 2B(1) jump cancellable on block, otherwise he has no safe blockstring enders.

[Ohno]

Why does that AA combo need a CH? Does 2B(1) no longer combo to 5C on normal hit? Also, you can't end that combo with 2B(2) 2AB rekka stuff?

 

I went and reread it and you're right, it doesn't need CH. Don't know why I thought it did...

[TheHitmarkersPro]

http://www.arcsystemworks.jp/p4u2/images/imp/list_ver.2.00.pdf

full minazuki changes here, http://www.famitsu.com/news/201501/09069209.html video here

5c ground bounces, you can do the 4ab > 2a combo without sweep midscreen even on sho now

[tomato of doom]

UPDATE: I read through as much of the Minazuki stuff in that final changes PDF as I could and compiled it here (moved to Evernote): https://www.evernote.com/shard/s157/sh/0b593e3a-f0d7-4485-9d14-551892f3af98/d312afb69e19e2b7df70c84cbfc0f7bc
Let me know if you find any errors (I went through it kinda fast, so I don't doubt I fucked up somewhere lol) or have any info that's missing, which isn't too much now.

 

[Skye]

Is that air dp losing head property change real? I've never seen that change listed before.

I mean if its true, then theoretically it will now beat AAs, which is great.

[Koopa_Klawz]

So is there any say on what happened to 5/2B being jump cancelable on block?

[RWA Announcer]

I know there seems to be a pretty large air of positivity amongst us, but nerfs to Command Grab, even if they were justified, Moon Smasher, Survival Knives disappearing on hit and throw no longer knocking down seem like some decent hits to me.  I know it's SUPER early regardless, and there's are CERTAINLY things I'm hyped about, like 5C Ground Bounce and the crazy Rekkas, but it's like R-Squared was telling me earlier, "What's to stop people from just blocking when Command Throws aren't as threatening and his Teleport seems to be even more punishable?"  Would somebody more knowledgeable than me, like Hitmarkers or Vulcan mind breaking that list down for me a bit more?

[TheHitmarkersPro]

I know there seems to be a pretty large air of positivity amongst us, but nerfs to Command Grab, even if they were justified, Moon Smasher, Survival Knives disappearing on hit and throw no longer knocking down seem like some decent hits to me.  I know it's SUPER early regardless, and there's are CERTAINLY things I'm hyped about, like 5C Ground Bounce and the crazy Rekkas, but it's like R-Squared was telling me earlier, "What's to stop people from just blocking when Command Throws aren't as threatening and his Teleport seems to be even more punishable?"  Would somebody more knowledgeable than me, like Hitmarkers or Vulcan mind breaking that list down for me a bit more?

EX command grab seems untouched(still 5F startup, same as normal grab). Not sure how slow the new one is, so we can't make any judgements yet(currently 214C/D is 8f startup). Teleport was never part of his mixup, so it isn't really a terrible nerf. We still have jump cancels on 5B and 2B afaik(notes didn't say anything about it) so doing jump > IABD > j.B > stuff will still be viable as well. Also, remember while grabs seem to be not as threatening, calling out a jump with a 2B in pressure easily nets you ~3.8k with the new 5C ground bounce in combos(2B1 > 5C > 2C > 5B1 > 5C > 2C > 5D > 236C > 2A > ender). If people want to block, let them. Rekkas now let us continue our pressure easier(meterless too afaik, B ender is +?)

He can still frametrap you, I believe 5A still chains into itself but you have less of a window to do so.

Command grab: C&D start up slower

-Invuln removed (from the SB version? Didn't specify) -- I didn't know they had invul?

-Hitstun reduced -- as long as you can still link D wings from it midscreen and OMC > 5A, this doesn't mean anything

-More recovery -- you were fucked if you whiffed it anyway

-Less inertia from dash before startup -- This seems like a buff? AFAIK this means you have less stop on the dash before it come sout

Let's wait until the game drops before we come to any conclusions though, we're both assuming at this point.

[RWA Announcer]

Thanks.  After having it laid out like that, outside of the Knives disappearing on hit, (which I guess is to compensate for them becoming a Low, even though I thought some moves already destroyed them, like Liz's 5B?) that really doesn't sound too bad at all.  We're certainly all speculating at this point, and that's what I told him too, but I personally like the fact that they're improving his pressure and neutral, which is what attracted me to the character in the first place form watching DIE-Chan matches last year.  I'm a little worried about how he'll stack up against Yu now, but we'll all find out together and he still seems SUPER SOLID anyway.  I just thought some of those nerfs might be evening us out overall, so I appreciate the insight.

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Thanks.  After having it laid out like that, outside of the Knives disappearing on hit, (which I guess is to compensate for them becoming a Low, even though I thought some moves already destroyed them, like Liz's 5B?) that really doesn't sound too bad at all.  We're certainly all speculating at this point, and that's what I told him too, but I personally like the fact that they're improving his pressure and neutral, which is what attracted me to the character in the first place form watching DIE-Chan matches last year.  I'm a little worried about how he'll stack up against Yu now, but we'll all find out together and he still seems SUPER SOLID anyway.  I just thought some of those nerfs might be evening us out overall, so I appreciate the insight.

I disagree with him having improved neutral, because j.B was an amazing neutral tool, which is nerfed now.

I feel he's been changed to be more ground based, with 2B leading into high damage easily, and having only one good jump-in, consequently, that jump-in was nerfed.

I would like to know how fast 2C is now, since it's apparently faster via the notes. That move is also jcable on block, so if it's fast enough to throw in pressure sometimes for a chance at a FC + jc off it is nice.

Overall, Minazuki has to be smarter in pressure now, but he gets greatly rewarded for doing so. Where as in 1.1, upbacking versus minazuki was a decent option sometimes(varied depending on players), upbacking can be called out for huge damage. But, on the other side, it's harder for him to work his tick throws into pressure when they're slower(depends on startup of new 214C/D, EX would be as good as it is in 1.1), and he lost 4AA's large windows for frametraps as well as its vertical hitbox(not sure how nerfed this is, 5AA air hit 5D probably doesn't work anymore). It seems like using 2A in staggers would be more useful due to its ability to be delayed more, and possibly ending the chain in 5A to jump(2A > 2A > 5A > etc).

Overall he still seems strong, and fun. I probably just repeated myself from my last post, lol.

 

EDIT: Why is the knife change such a big deal? If you got hit, you weren't doing much with the knife anyway, since it's often during startup, or a trade. Even if you got hit post startup before the knife hit them, you aren't losing much..

[tomato of doom]

Is that air dp losing head property change real? I've never seen that change listed before.

I mean if its true, then theoretically it will now beat AAs, which is great.

Lol yep, that's what the notes said. Sho got the same change as well.

 

 

So is there any say on what happened to 5/2B being jump cancelable on block?

 

There was no mention of any changes to jump cancels for him other than 5B(2) and 2B(2) being hop cancelable now, so I assume they're still in.