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[Xrd] Ramlethal - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

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You only have 1 chance at a mixup with Trance now. Doing a second jump will probably get you smacked by any character's AA or even 5p. Trance nerf also reduces its enders to about 40 minimum damage from about 55 last game. Good thing it still carries the poor guy almost halfscreen on block and lets you do 1 mixup when you reach the corner.

 

I haven't found a use for the new kpp knockdown yet, but I doubt it will lead to anything much. Ramlethal's oki has always been horrible midscreen because you can just backdash out or jump out of most setups.

 

New dust combo seems to be 5d j.s j.s dj.s dj.2d? Gives you hard knockdown and following up with 6h probably hits pretty meaty but I'm not sure how you are going to close the fullscreen distance that the dj.2d puts you at.

 

New standard combo route in c.s Daruo 5pk4k 5pk 5kk4k 5ppp? Seems to almost corner carry all the way.

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New standard combo route in c.s Daruo 5pk4k 5pk 5kk4k 5ppp? Seems to almost corner carry all the way.

 

Same restriction on characters as before or did Ram gain / lose possible characters to combo on with her near-fullscreen auto combo route?

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Hard for me to get more than one or two dustloops now. Probably because I'm a F U C K B O I

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Ram 1.1 thoughts:

 

1) j.P. felt more like they slowed down the chaining because rapid firing it didn't feel the same to me but you could be right on her falling faster.

2) KPP knockdown is not good at all and doesn't give you enough time to set up any good midscreen oki

3) IAD loops are the same timing

4) 4/5P seems has a bigger hitbox above her. If true this might be useful in some match ups as an AA like against I-No dashes. It makes the old microdash PK combos universal on the entire cast after a JF Daruo. I remember if you did JF Daruo on light weights the microdash PK combos wouldn't work properly.

5) JF Daruo seems easier to get out if you just hold down forward. However, the window to press P to get Daruo to come out at all seems like it has been shortened. If true this shortens the confirm window into Daruo.

6) Damage output seemed like it was nerfed considerably. She still does good damage but it's not as absurd as 1.04.

7) Using deployed swords to tank a hit is hard to set up properly. The minions hurt box needs to be in front of Ramlethal for this to work and getting the spacing right is tough.

8) If the opponent hits the minion hurt box they can't jump cancel, RC, or special cancel. It's treated as if the normal whiffed.

9) The old corner oki set ups still work same with the post combos.

10) Getting bursted when a deployed sword is active causes the sword to fall. If both swords fall after getting bursted this is the worst situation for us. Usually, you can force a situation after getting bursted by doing tech recover j.6S/HS YRC etc... If both swords get hit by the burst you're totally exposed. It's a fair nerf but something to be aware of.

 

From the top of my head these changes, system changes, character buffs would make the Faust, Bedman, Slayer, and Ky match ups more difficult than before. I'm not saying they'll be disadvantageous match ups just require different approaches than before. The Faust match up in particular is going to require a very differrent approach, imo.

 

EDIT: Can we get the old 1.04 threads closed down and create new 1.05/1.10 threads opened? This is something I hated with SRK. Any new players trying to learn a character are going to look at the threads and see information that may be out of date. It's better to have the information organized by version number.

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I noted down the damage of a few combos I personally used, and compared them after the patch.

 

15-20 points of damage loss at the sub-200 range, anything that used to hit at 200+ or used deployed 2SH is rip

This is especially noticeable in oki combos utilizing 2HS, where in some cases I'm getting over 30 less damage points.

 

A weird thing I noticed is that my old crumble oki combos did 234dmg off j.K and 240 off 2D. Now, it's 199 and 187 respectively.

Leaving the huge damage gap aside, why the hell does the 2D variant do less damage lol. Is it because its P1 got nerfed, while j.K's intact?

Also having to use Toranshi to get the same damage we used to get meterless ayy

 

The only thing I noticed in the 200+ range that didn't get hit that hard are double Dauro combos.

I guess  we need to hit the lab to find new routes using at least one Dauro in 2HS combos which didn't utilize it at all in vanilla.

 

I'll admit it though, whenever I see the opponent's health after a 2HS oki combo I think "yeah that's about right" :v:

 

Also yeah, chaining j.P into itself is a lot slower, I'm afraid that if the first one hits at a weird angle it's very likely for the second one to whiff.

j.2D looks promising though, too bad that if you cancel it into Detruo in the corner it hits them allowing them to air tech

4PPPP is also slower on whiff

 

What's left for me to see is how bad neutral is now, unless it proves to be super bad I don't really get why she's at the bottom of some recent tier lists.

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I advise whoever still wants to play this character to learn how to play with both swords equipped from now on. I played a fair bit of games already and I can feel that in a majority of situations where my swords are deployed in neutral, I would rather be keeping them on my back. Too many damn things can accidentally hit the sword while it's starting up, and even if the opponent plays like he's fighting 1.0 Ramlethal and goes for face, whichever sword is active drops when Ramlethal blocks and that really, really sucks.

 

It's time to get good with fundamentals and quit mashing on deploying swords, thinking everyone's going to block them nicely. Of course, chucking them out in the corner is still a great idea.

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I was playing around the batz taken hit and its not that great or impressive. I dont even think it can even tank a hit rather takes one active frame off an attack.

Ram f.s can hit both the bat and hit ram so it functioning as a shield of some kind is not true.

Anyway i was hoping for better mid screen option but she can still corner carry so what is the point lol. I do like pk4k on standing since it has a great distance and timing for kd okizeme.

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I do like pk4k on standing since it has a great distance and timing for kd okizeme.

 

There's almost no difference between 5pk4k and 5p2kk except that the latter does about 10 more damage.

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Guess i will see although the value for face up and face down wake up timing should be different for each character. Guess i will re-examine if 5pk4k is face up since i didnt take a good look but the value for face up usually gives longer kd timing on most cast.

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I'm suddenly having major problems doing cS into Dauro from the right side. Like, from hitting 10/10 to 1/10. Just me?

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^ Haven't played much recently, but I can confirm enough from waffing around a bit that I also noticed that getting dauro's after cS or 2D seemed rather dodgy.

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It might just be rust, I'm getting 623p out with no problems, I'm a bit sketchy on the just, but that's mostly rust.

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I've dropped c.S > Dauro and 2D > Dauro quite a few times today but I was thinking that those moments were just my execution being scrubby/hands freezing early in the morning.

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I'm suddenly having major problems doing cS into Dauro from the right side. Like, from hitting 10/10 to 1/10. Just me?

I've been doing it fine...in match however, it's different story. 

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Just focus on downforward and it should work 10/10.

 

Does anyone else feel that Ram got less fun in neutral? I don't like her options right now in some matchups (played vs Sol, Chipp, I-No, Ky, Bedman, Millia so far).

 

You have to be conservative with both meter usage and summons. No meter restricts the summoning game, hence it's really hard to keep some characters away from you. Cassius took over as my main keepaway tool in neutral, together with H sword summon every . Being able to go into a full dustloop off of a CH Cassius is great and will make people think twice about killing the orbs. Due to Cassius long recovery though, you really have to pick the spots to throw it out without meter. Cassius whiff without YRC will shift the momentum into the opponents favor and that's a big no-no.

 

One of Rams greatest strength, in my opinion, has been the high posibility to interrupt your opponents gameflow and gain it for yourself pretty easily. This got turned around, now Ram has to be really careful to not lose her momentum. With it she basically plays the same as in 1.0, but once your enemy decides to bursts, DAs or breaks it through some other means you have to work really hard to gain it back. I'm pretty disappointed how she turned out at the moment. 

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^I don't know about you but I've based my playstyle around Karinchu for the most part in 1.04 so neutral doesn't feel very different for me since I'm used to keeping both swords equipped. But yeah, with the recent changes, I've started using YRC Cassius A LOT more now than YRC deploy in neutral.

 

Also, I just read back a few posts and the Dauro drops are probably because of the shortened input window(?). If that's true, then that kinda sucks. Wouldn't want to autopilot chains into Dauro either since the move is more negative on block now.

 

 

Just wondering though, did they ever stick with added recovery frames for deploying swords in the air? I wasn't able to get a good test on it today but do some of Ram's old midscreen oki setups still work, like the IAD j.6S j.K safejump and kd into forward jump j.6S > air backdash > j.K crossup/fake crossup? I would think that higher recovery on air deployment would make some of these setups moot, but if they haven't been changed then that's great.

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^I don't know about you but I've based my playstyle around Karinchu for the most part in 1.04 so neutral doesn't feel very different for me since I'm used to keeping both swords equipped. But yeah, with the recent changes, I've started using YRC Cassius A LOT more now than YRC deploy in neutral.

 

 

Most of my playstyle was build up on his style as well. But if you revisit some of his last videos of 1.0, you'll notice that he relies on summons in specific MUs as well. 

 

In regards to your other questions, nothing changed besides Daruo input leniency.

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I feel like the MU for millia, i-no, and bedman are mostly the same(don't get knocked down/cornered). Sol definitely a little more difficult. It's like he got a lot of stealth buffs on small things, no huge nerfs and I'm noticing more pushback on some stuff (I sub him). Chipp right now feels downright oppressive though... ram getting 0 respect in neutral also doesn't help.

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I feel like the MU for millia, i-no, and bedman are mostly the same(don't get knocked down/cornered). Sol definitely a little more difficult. It's like he got a lot of stealth buffs on small things, no huge nerfs and I'm noticing more pushback on some stuff (I sub him). Chipp right now feels downright oppressive though... ram getting 0 respect in neutral also doesn't help.

The chipp matchup is fairly the same, you really shouldnt be deploying swords on him and you still kill him in 2 hits.  Sol does feel a bit harder though, need to play it some more but overall Ram is alot weaker than I thought.  The new sword change is alot worse than i thought, for sure the worst nerf she got.  They should at least let her build meter like a normal character since she needs so much meter now to be really effective....

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The games quite the same except people dont respect you and with good reasons lol. Now if your oki is geting poke by 5a or 2a your gaps are too big somewhat... you can always zpend more bar on yrc or use less sword base oki and just generic empty jump or ecteta

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Guess i will bring the 5kk 6hs/6s mid screen oki discussion here.

With regards to blittz shield it sorta effects most meaty kd set up so its really nothing new and has been an option for others to use. Although saying so there are ways around it.

In general 5kk hit air hit is not a hard kd or even a soft kd lol but rather there is enough untech time to allow a low air to ground kd.

The general tip after dauro is dash 5pk4k this sets up the correct hight and timing for a 5kk low air ender kd. Otherwise 5pk delay 4k would work but you be working with various delay time in which you would need to adjust yourself.

5kk4k.... it has been mention before but i think its fantastic as a way to mess with your opponent. Its main purpose to me is to allow ramlethal with more option. In this case 5kk4k pull your opponents towards you allowing you the steal the corner position. While the okizeme itself gives hint and visual que such as ramlethal turning around when doing corner cross over. It provides a deterrent for lazy dead angle. Those that just hold back and readying 6pk or so. Cross opponents dp input that requires 6 motion mean they will need to react for reverse dp input instead.

So anyone else holding out on trade secrets =D

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am i the only one that thinks this subforum has been a bit messy as of late? had to go trough like 4 threads just to find the pain/daiji combo video because they werent in the combo thread, or the oki thread, and the video thread is actually half discussion, half videos during the whole last page...

 

on another note just wanted to mention that ill transcribe all the 5kk oki options next week because they are quite important, nobody has done it, and i will finally be out in vacations (or at least done with finals).

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So... what do you guys think of Ram in this game?  I've been playing her but i can tell that shes much weaker than her previous game.  It really does feel like im relearning the character again lol.  Alotta matchups are different too, she can compete for sure though.

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