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[Xrd] Ramlethal - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

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As far as I know and tried to translate with my good pal Google, the important parts are:

 

1) All variations of j.d have increased recovery from 20 to 28.

2) j.6s/j.6h have their recovery increased from 29 to 35. j.2s/j.2h have their recovery increased from 26 to 37.

3) Opponents are now further away when you hit with combination 5pk. A new combination route has been opened with 5pk4k.

4) Green Daruo recovery increased from 15 to 16 frames, which pretty much makes it -2 on block. Input on green Daruo is stricter.

5) Calvados becoming 7+7 from 12+10.

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As far as I know and tried to translate with my good pal Google, the important parts are:

 

1) All variations of j.d have increased recovery from 20 to 28.

2) j.6s/j.6h have their recovery increased from 29 to 35. j.2s/j.2h have their recovery increased from 26 to 37.

3) Opponents are now further away when you hit with combination 5pk. A new combination route has been opened with 5pk4k.

4) Green Daruo recovery increased from 15 to 16 frames, which pretty much makes it -2 on block. Input on green Daruo is stricter.

5) Calvados becoming 7+7 from 12+10.

 

The fuck? I understand wanting to remove various J.D loops, which I believe this will do........ but making sword activations, which were already slow as shit, even slower? Green Daruo stricter? Arcsys please, you might as well change I-No's Chemical Loves back to an overdrive input.

 

Are these changes final?

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its probaby due to its ability to be safe on block even with -2 your 4 frame 5p does add extra pressure, combo wise i dont think it would make much difference.

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Just as long as they make 6P a better anti-air and f.S > Daruo combo on standing then I don't care what nerfs they give her...  :toot:

 

The fuck? I understand wanting to remove various J.D loops, which I believe this will do........ but making sword activations, which were already slow as shit, even slower? Green Daruo stricter? Arcsys please, you might as well change I-No's Chemical Loves back to an overdrive input.

 

Are these changes final?

 

Well remember that this is just a location test so don't panic and/or rant just yet... :eng101:

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Just as long as they make 6P a better anti-air

 

Seconded, would be nice to use the move without wondering whether you'll get smacked in the face over half the time.

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If landing recovery cancel out j2hs recovery then it wont change much but a nerf to double jump falling j2hs j2s set up. I kinda like her mix up potential i be sad if its less interesting as before.

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Uh, so wait. Does this kill Ramlethal's wall loop? I spent ages practising that. Hopefully we can at least do one rep because it looks flashy as hell. Recovery on her sword set in the air seems to majorly nerf her corner pressure and mixups. And by nerf I mean eliminate?

 

The change they made where close projectiles can be parried with Blitz Sheild also seems to be implemented almost solely to prevent set play characters like Millia, Ram, and Zato from having advantage up close/on wakeup.

 

I can't help feel like this will make Ram a character more focused on staying back, her playstyle might become significantly more dull.

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I really hope that landing does cancel out the extra recovery, but all summon > falling / air dash j.K setups are probably dead.

Maybe 2D / 5H > instant j.2H > 2S will work? Or 2H > j.2S, idk. I just hope that she can still get actual setups, the universal BS change alone would suffice as a huge nerf anyway

 

I get that too much setplay is never good, but the new BS seems like it will kill all oki characters. Which is dumb since that's what they designed them to do anyway.

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Not necessarily since you can only meaty under few condition it still be meaty low high or command grab what might be gone is the safe oki route with double sword, in worst case it be a degenerate blitz shield battle.

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Most of Ramlethal's setups used the swords to combo off whatever move they were using to mixup (like 2k/2d/6k/236k) anyway so I don't see how the Blitz Shield change severely affects her setplay. The only setups that the change affects are:

 

1) c.s 2d 6h where the sword is used as a meaty to cover for high low mixups.

2) Various j.2h j.2s setups.

3) Trance setups you can probably only do 1 instead of 2 since you need to keep out of the Blitz Shield 'range' and then after Trance makes them block you can go for usual stuff.

 

And do remember that Blitz Shield on wakeup is still a terribly risky choice for your opponent, since you can't hold back and do it. Miss the timing and you give away 25 meter plus a free combo to your opponent.

 

Tl;dr: Blitz Shield change is not that big of a deal for Ramlethal compared to other oki characters if I'm reading this change correctly.

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Yeah most setups just enable her to confirm her mixup into a combo if it hits, but there ARE setups where the first sword is meant to hit meaty and protect you from everything.

You pretty much get one really safe mixup instead of two, relatively safe ones in a row. Of course you can mix them up again after both swords are done, but the reward is not worth it in either case

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On the plus side...at least I don't need to finish learning the Daji combo. It's also pretty cool that Toranshi is unchanged from what I read. I think she'll be okay if this is all (though I sure more changes are to come), but stricter input on Daruo is kinda...ugh. I do like that this change list looks a lot more...sane, compared to some of the BB loketest stuff I've seen. I just want the green dauro change reverted (the input timing)  and I could also do with sword sets being left alone speed wise.

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My overall thoughts on the system and character changes:

 

-j.D's getting universal 8 frame recover probably kills the IAD loops. I'm not sure if one rep of IAD loop is possible since the starter involves c.S, j.8D or c.S, 5HS, j.8D. I'm not sure if there's enough time to pick up with one rep of IAD j.K, j.S, j.8D. It definitely seems like it would kill this option vs heavy weights and weird outlier characters like Ky, Zato, Slayer, Leo, and Venom. Would probably get one rep on light weight and middle weight characters but might need to do a c.S, 5HS, j.8D starter for more height to compensate for the increased recovery.

EDIT: Untechable time decreased and increased recovery definitely kills IAD loops. Not sure if one rep is possible might have to do dash PPP after c.S, j.8D.

-Just Frame Daruo being 1f more recovery makes combos 1f tighter and I'm not sure if we have enough time for micro dash c.S after wards. People who think that her 4f 5P after Daruo is free pressure are greatly mistaken and you never see the high level Jpn players do this. In several cases Daruo puts you outside of 5P range especially if they FD it and you end up losing to their buttons after wards.

-Just Frame Daruo being even tighter is contradictory to them making buffer windows larger and special/super motions easier. They want to lower the execution barrier but make JF Daruo tighter?

EDIT: Proper translation notes makes JF Daruo easier so disregard previous statement.

-Need to see how far the push back is with 5PK because that could potentially make Daruo dash 5PK , 5PK, 5PPP not possible. The new buffer window on micro dashes makes that combo easier now.

-5PK4K route seems like it could open a new oki route if the 4K is the same as all other combinations involving 4K but the nerfs on sword deploys might nullify this. You might be able to RC the 4K into a combo extension midscreen but it's probably not worth the meter.

-Blitzshield change effects a few meaty sword oki routes. However, most sword oki was done at a distance and it's probably outside the new effective stun range of blitzshielding a projectile but this really needs to be researched.

-Sword oki combo conversions were when one of her normals hit first then the sword hits. ie. j.2HS, air dash j.K

-Something like wall splat c.S, 5HS, jc, j.2S/HS, air dash j.K may not be viable with the additional recovery frames to j.6/2 S/HS. It might actually force us to do j.2S/HS YRC air dash j.K instead which may also affect combo conversion.

-Increased recovery to all sword deploys makes screen control during neutral much harder when you want to stall in the air. This instantly makes the Sol, Millia, Zato, Chipp, and Faust match ups that much more difficult pending any nerfs they got. All other characters now have a bigger window to approach Ramlethal when swords are deployed which is something they needed. Without bigger hit boxes or reduced start up on her sword equipped normals to compensate it makes playing the neutral game more difficult.

-Calvados having reduced start up does nothing even if we're plus on block.

 

Overall, it seems like if these changes stick than the current way Ramlethal is played at a high level is dead. Hopefully, there's either unannounced buffs to Ramlethal or another location tests with different changes.

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I think saying shes Dead is a little bit of an overreaction atm but some of these nerfs hurt pretty bad for sure.

 

Combo damage is going way down with loss of iad loops for sure. j.8d got nerfed hard.

 

Sword set recovery is by far the worst nerf imo. Kills many of the better oki setups but mostly I'm scared for her neutral.

 

Just frame Dauro is not getting harder. They made it so that holding 2+p forces Green every time. the stricter window is so you dont accidently green when you want normal I think.

 

Calvados is irrelevant like Killey said.

 

Main thing I think is that j.P and Toranshi slipped through (somehow) so she still has strong tools.

 

It really remains to be seen just how bad sword recovery is now and whether Ram can still do any damage/oki.

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Loving the overreactions lol. "Dead" character... come on man. With the way this character is designed, that's impossible.

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I really dont know how to feel about these sword changes, because if it is just set swords recovery, then I can still do insta j.6S/6HS/2S/2HS and be the same as before

 

it would affect timing on setups where you use swords and then airdash into the oponent before hitting the ground and such, but still sounds adjustable

 

neutral would be a little harder, but as long as the swords still come as "fast" as they do now, she'll be okay

 

on the ground you can YRC on extreme cases

 

the recovery on setting swords seems unchanged

 

... unless I'm not seeing something or understanding the nerf wrong

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Im like most of us saw these nerft coming from a mile away jd nerft was expect because it gave huge untech time for dust loop plus kd on low air hit. For a strong oki character her damage was easily above Millia and probably well above most of the cast.

Anyway slash dizzy is an example that it can be terrible if they nerft too much but with a standing overhead and command throw its quite hard.

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I said the current way of high level Ramlethal is dead, I'm not saying the character is dead and these are just first location test notes. If the changes stick then it requires Ramlethal to be played differently than how she currently is played. I'm mostly concerned with sword deploys in pressure and neutral. The changes definitely effects her more negatively then positively and I'm not sure what all the system changes are to help her out in different ways.

 

Personally, I was expecting damage nerfs, toranshi nerfs, and IAD loops getting nerfed.

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The character seems dead if these changes are final, imo, and some of the changes to Ramlethal seem contradictory to the changes they did with other characters and universal system mechanics. My overall thoughts on the system and character changes:

 

 

  You might need to edit your previous post.

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From SRK:

 

Jump 8+D:

- Untechable time decreased.

- Attack damage reduced from 50 to 40.

- Recovery time increased from 20F to 28F.

 

Jump D:

-Now causes wall bound on counter-hit in the corner.

-Initial hit damage proration 80 added.

-Recovery time increased from 20F to 28F.

 

Jump 2+D:

-Start-up reduced from 18F to 11F.

-Knocks the opponent downward on hit.

-Recovery time increased from 20F to 28F.

 

Jump Deploy Giant Sword:

-Jump 6+S and 6+HS total recovery increased from 29F to 35F.

-Jump 2+S and 2+HS total recovery increased from 26F to 37F.

 

Combination (P) K:

-Forward movement distance increased.

-Combination route to 4+K added.

 

Daruo (Glowing Version):

-Recovery increased from 15F to 16F. Input reception time decreased.

-Input reception time decreased.

-Glowing version now only activates when completing the motion with diagonally downward.

 

Calvados:

-Start-up reduced from 12+10F to 7+7F.

-Attack damage increased from 7 to 8 per hit.

-Recovery increased from 29F to 31F.

 

 

http://shoryuken.com/2015/02/04/upcoming-guilty-gear-xrd-sign-arcade-changes-detailed-by-arc-system-works/

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  You might need to edit your previous post.

 

Ah thanks for pointing that out. Just contradicting myself at the beginning and end of my post. lol

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