Jump to content
Kurushii

[Xrd] Ramlethal - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

Recommended Posts

So.... would you guys say this is a bad time to start learning her?

This version is still this version. She's still one of the strongest characters in the game and nobody can know how many of her current nerfs (If any) will stick in their current form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted up 3 vids in the video thread of Dei's Ramlethal. I think it was either Japanese netplay FT3's or a netplay tournament but Typical East Coast was streaming it before uploading the archive to youtube. There's some interesting stuff to take away from the way Dei's plays Ramlethal that I want to note mostly for myself to remember.

 

I haven't watched Dei's Ramlethal before but the way he plays neutral and corner pressure & oki is very different from Karinchu, Batako, and Daiji, imo. I really like how Dei uses sword retrievals followed by a sword re-deploy to stall his air time even further. That's something I've maybe seen once or twice but completely forgot about so I'll need to use that when I'm on the defensive in the neutral game. His corner pressure & oki is usually go for smaller damage (relative to Ramlethal damage) into favorable reset positions and just try to get multiple mix ups in rapid succession. Karinchu wants maximum corner damage into a reset/knockdown so that the subsequent mix up kills. Batako kind of opts to do shorter combos into resets as well but he has the most varied oki game between the players, imo. He's one of the few Ramlethal player that implements fuzzy guard setups, safe jumps, 5K,4K setups, and various resets from c.S, 5HS off of wall splats.The oki and pressure options you get are different between the various styles though and none of them are right or wrong, imo.

 

His corner pressure and oki when swords are already deployed far away is short combo into wall splat, c.S, 5HS, j.2S, c.S xx 623P, j.2S hits, dash j.8D. His post oki from that is 6HS, dash j.2S then make them guess between 6K, 2D, or command grab. If they happen to block through all of that it lets him dash for 4P pressure into 6S for continued offense.

 

His corner pressure and oki when swords are deployed in the corner is wall splat, c.S, 5HS, j.2S, 2HS and then make them guess between 6K, 2D, or command grab. Again, if they block all of that he gets continued offense since the swords are staggered enough that he can dash in for continued pressure. There's some additional mix ups he can go for so it becomes a multi-layered mix up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

excelent setups, and without too much microdashes and other strict stuff... Its a shame when he drops in midscreen but the corner setplay its delicious, thx for the interpretation killey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I like the most from Dei, specially in these videos, is how he can just be in front of a standing opponent and just keep him there blocking, while using his swords and mixups until they get hit

 

Thats often what I struggle with the most, after my opponents block one or two mixups they always have such an easy time to get out by pressing a button, a reversal, or even just jumping out sometimes... guess I'll only get that with matchup experience

 

He does actively dismiss a lot of free damage from easy opportunities to combo into at least one dustloop though... it's not like he needs to do that for his setups, maybe he's afraid of netplay delay?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He does actively dismiss a lot of free damage from easy opportunities to combo into at least one dustloop though... it's not like he needs to do that for his setups, maybe he's afraid of netplay delay?

 

After playing around with his set ups in training mode the reason he doesn't maximize his damage in the corner with IAD loops is because it prevents his setups from working due to hit stun/time scaling. If you do IAD loops and try to go for his reset off of wall splat at some point the combo stops working due to hit stun/time scaling so you need to shorten the combo starter significantly to get those set ups going. 

 

The corner sword deploy combo he uses (I've seen Batako use this originally) does comparable damage to 2 reps of IAD loops and is a lot easier to do in comparison and works on more members of the cast. The end result is still a knockdown but the timing on the oki setups is significantly different than going for a 2D knockdown into a jump cancel j.2S/HS. 

 

For me, I use the hit stun scaling and increased push back of longer combos as part of my oki set ups. Some set ups require short combos so that the push back is minimal to allow the set up to work while others require maximum amount of push back to properly space the subsequent mix up. I really like this because it allows Ramlethal players to really define their own play styles and it still surprises me how no two Japanese Ramlethal players play alike. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming the loktest goes through as it stands right now, is Dei's playstyle going to become more the default?  How much will his style be weakened by the upcoming nerfs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He uses meaty 2H a lot which shouldn't change even with the current nerfs, but whether confirming a mixup after that with the help of the S sword will work or not is still unknown.

 

I also picked up a lot of stuff from him, was actually considering sharing the poorly written notes I took before Killey's analysis.

I only got to play one -long- set after watching him, but the thing that seemed to help me the most was his j.8D ender setup with both swords deployed far away. You can't always do double PK > resummon, so knowing that you can set them both at any time while also getting some decent oki is pretty huge imo.

 

For anyone that's wondering, this is what I'm referring to:

 

-HS crumple > j.2S > c.S > Dauro > j.2S hits > dash j.8D > slight walk 6H > 66 j.2S > mixup

http://youtu.be/7Da-E9Ureg8?t=55s

http://youtu.be/c072FpKqrMc?t=52s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should be doing j.2S as low to the ground as you can, right after you are able to act coming out of the jumping animation. If they're able to tech out after the 5HS before reaching the floor they're too high up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can add a bit of delay between c.S, 5HS for the proper crumple to avoid them teching if the PPP wall splat is too high up. Also, make sure that the S Sword is deployed far away from the opponent. If the S sword is deployed near the corner than they're able to tech after the j.8D for some reason. You might be able to squeeze in a PPP hard knockdown in those scenarios but I didn't do enough testing with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Timing for that HS crumple is kinda tricky for me... any tips? They seem to recover quite often. Am I doing the j.2s too slowly?

There is like 3 scenario

For me anyway after ppp

Too high delay 5c.s 5hs for them to fall abit

Medium high normal 5c.s 5hs

Too low to ground can just go 5c.s jc into what you intended no need to 5hs.

The trick is judging the hight and distance because the only thing revelent for crumple is causing enough hit stun to lower them to the ground enough for the effect to happen. If they are teching too quickly you either use 5c.s only or have the lowest j2c and quicker time 5.cs follow up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Takeaways from this set of patch notes thus far -

 

JD series has the same untechable time as it is in 1.0 but landing recovery is increased by 4f. Corner loops are probably still possible, but there will be less reps and some other silly combos involving j.8D are probably gone.

 

Sword set recovery reverted to 1.0 but you can now "strike" swords to prevent them from setting. They're obviously trying to kill Ramlethal's "Harass with swords while running away" style of play, but at least she still retains her okizeme and "setplay" options this way. Fair changes even though i'm curious to see just how much leeway characters get in terms of "striking" the swords or what the window is. In a better state than the first test to be sure but obviously still weakened. More changes will probably be listed out soon enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheelchair reverted. Now she's a bit more like Naoto. Just as cute too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reverted chain 4P nerf

5K start up 8f -> 6f

2D 90% proration added (nerf)

6P 10f ->9f

j. D damage 50 ->34, recovery 20 ->24

Combination PP distance increased

Combination 4K untech time increased

Silde Detruo increased tension on hit

Cassius increased tension on hit

Command grab YRC gone, forces PRC

I think the first hit of Calvados is up from 8 dmg to 50, and the subsequent hits are down to 8 from 6?, bottom of hit box extended to ground

j. 2S, j. 2H, j. 6S, j. 6H recovery reverted to 1.0 

Can now strike swords to prevent them from attacking 

 

 

A few negligible quality of life buffs in the patch with 6P and 5K, but most of the nerfs stayed, and swords being cancelled when struck is really a nail in the coffin that even I didn't see coming; that's going to give her some really, really big problems match-up wise. Even with the return of jump set recovery to 1.0 levels, 80% forced proration on PPP is going to really hurt the damage on her corner combos.

 

Bad luck, lads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me im wondering if the strike sword works as an actually hit box aka eddie or dizzy fish. Meaning they can absorb hits or something like testament net absorbing 1 active frame. The forming gave raise to better dp bait while the later only works against move with 1 active frame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She doesn't look too bad Mr. 9:02 PM. I think they'll give her a little bit of something to help her out before the final version. But sword harassment is still very much there, just you know....not as good. I have hope again. If she's an ArcSys boss character and anything like Hazama. She will fall into the same cycle, where she will never be bad, and given things to compensate for nerfs taken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

A few negligible quality of life buffs in the patch with 6P and 5K, but most of the nerfs stayed, and swords being cancelled when struck is really a nail in the coffin that even I didn't see coming; that's going to give her some really, really big problems match-up wise. Even with the return of jump set recovery to 1.0 levels, 80% forced proration on 6P is going to really hurt the damage on her corner combos.

 

Bad luck, lads.

Hurt her corner combos how? 6P isn't used in her corner routes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im ok with damage nerf if the oki keeps good or decent at least

i dont know if the hitbox on sword deploy its that bad... the position of H sword its very hard to reach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a lot happier with these changes actually, like this we can definitely keep our cool-looking combos and setups, and only get less damage from them, which is fair.

 

She will probably lose one or two currently good matchups, and some matchups may become really bad with the strikeable swords, but as long as she's still fun to play I'm happy

 

I'm just very surprised on how much they changed, I expected them to water some of the changes down a little bit, but completely quitting on some of them and adding so many others that are 100% new was far beyond my expectations from Arc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm more than happy with the current changes. I don't think anyone can complain, I mean we were looking at a dead character until yesterday.

 

Hittable swords doesn't sound that bad, I guess we'll see how it plays out if it sticks until the actual patch release.

Surprisingly, it's going to make a few occasions slightly easier. I've had bad DPs whiff on wakeup, followed by the opponent getting hit by a sword mid-animation while being airborne, with me being unable to confirm into a combo that high up. I guess if they hit the sword with the DP, that won't be an issue :eng101:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ye we a char again.

 

j.8D will never go back to vanilla obv lmao but it sounds a lot more reasonable than loketest 1 now.

 

Swords being hittable is a really interesting change. I feel like attempting to hit one could very well get you blasted by another and it would also leave people slightly more open to approaches.

 

Clearly they want Ram to be more of attack in tandem with swords instead of sword runaway.

 

Wondering why they made 5k 6 frames though. Thats soo fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm kind of ok. A character with strong oki options/mixup, good normals and good range, doesn't need to be a zoner too. Let's see how this new version fares.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×