[Xrd] Ramlethal - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Syklone]

Since Skylone was asking for Ogawa's newest tier list.

 

S: Sol, Milia, Zato, Axl, Faust, Sin, Elphelt

 

A: Ky, May, Chipp, I-No, Bedman, Leo

 

B: Venom, Slayer, Ramlethal

 

C: Potemkin

 

Also, Japan received the 1.1 update in arcades on March 19th, so they've had it for 9 weeks now.  Certainly not enough time to explore EVERYTHING by any means, but long enough that I'd feel calling these lists informed first impressions from these players.

Agreed. Daiji just found some massive damage midscreen combos that carry all the way to the corner. And Pain had a midscreen Oki video as well. She's still got some good stuff. And new stuff is likely to come. Daiji is an innovator.

[Complexity]

All the JP players who quit Ramlethal used her only because her damage was ridiculously high and that you had to navigate around her swords instead of just punching them. It makes sense that Ramlethal sucks if she is played in this way now since the patch effectively killed both braindead sword deploys and reduced her damage by about 40 on higher damage combos.

 

She still has her real dumb shit in the form of her ridiculous setplay potential, though I also honestly wish they didn't make burst drop active swords too. No character in the game should have such a huge momentum shift just because they failed to bait a burst. Then again, our burst into Trance (or Calvados YRC) is pretty much the best momentum thief in the game, so I don't know if I should be complaining or not.

[Syklone]

Welp boys it looks like our prayers have been heard by the ArcSys gods. Will we get buffs? Find out next time on "Nerf my character to shit!"

[Nyaa]

B-tier stands for buff tier.

 

Let's pray together with our dear Ramstein (That they don't nerf her more at least).

 

 

At least give us jP back. :'( (even if it's stupid dumb)

[zaeris]

For me anyway the final nail on the conffin is when they release dizzy xD

[Complexity]

Since people think she sucks, I don't think she will get getting nerfed in the next version. Maybe a few throws here and there in high profile tournaments will also convince ASW to buff her. Then again, ASW balancing is questionable. The Hazama buffs and Terumi nerfs from CP 1.1 to EX are like the finest examples of horrendous ASW balancing.

[zaeris]

When i saw those new midscreen daiji combo and kk kd my first reaction is how arcsys will nerft that. On the bb matter it could be the eternal tsubaki that never moves up a tier after being nerft

[Syklone]

Since people think she sucks, I don't think she will get getting nerfed in the next version. Maybe a few throws here and there in high profile tournaments will also convince ASW to buff her. Then again, ASW balancing is questionable. The Hazama buffs and Terumi nerfs from CP 1.1 to EX are like the finest examples of horrendous ASW balancing.

Hazama is perfectly balanced sir.....*insert smug anime girl*

[Putin]

Keep her damage as is, but give us the old swords back!

Or at least make them not drop down, but maybe delay the actual swing or something? And if you get Ram to block then they stop altogether BUT DON'T FALL DOWN, seems fair imo

Even though that wouldn't make stopping Ky from spamming fireballs any easier, since the grinder's hitbox would delay the swing long enough for him to make you block the fireball and stop the sword altogether

[Scrubplayer]

It'd be nice if the swords had some sort of armor hitpoint threshold so that the opponent would have to use a move like f.S or j.H to make it fall down instead of merely doing a 5P or j.P, similar to how Asterius works with S.Lab in P4U. At the same time, they could also serve as meatshields against weaker attacks and projectiles.

 

But yeah, I'd really like to see ArcSys make some of Ram's other moves very viable in neutral because it does feel like I'm just throwing f.S and j.S or j.H and fishing for counterhit confirms. Cassius feels like a great move to use sometimes during neutral or after a blocked f.S. The wiki says it's -1 on block, but is that for when Cassius is used point-blank? I played a lengthy set today and noticed blocked f.S > Cassius > Dauro would sometimes catch my opponent if they pressed a button or tried to jump without FDing. Cassius > Dauro feels like a frame trap when used at midrange, I don't know, I'd have to test it out or something.

 

Just wondering, but do you guys ever use 2S+ or 2H+ in neutral at all, like to catch airdashes or anything? I rarely see these ever get used by JP players, probably because they are unsafe as heck without any meter and there's better options Ram could be using meter for in neutral. Anyone here use them for gimmicky air tech catches though?

[WOLFdizzle]

a, I do blcl v b p bx y Ev x ew arc c m y x m no. bx

[Complexity]

Or at least make them not drop down, but maybe delay the actual swing or something? And if you get Ram to block then they stop altogether BUT DON'T FALL DOWN, seems fair imo

 

I would take them falling down any day over having their startup increased to 37f like the first loketest. That was the real killer nerf and if that change had went through instead of the swords dropping, I would probably have quit the character altogether.

 

Edit: If you are referring to the 'freeze' effect on swords that we assumed would happen to punched swords when the loketest was first announced, that indeed would have been a slighter nerf than dropped swords. I don't think I would have favoured that though. I'd rather the punched swords simply return to their neutral position so I can use them again.

 

Just wondering, but do you guys ever use 2S+ or 2H+ in neutral at all, like to catch airdashes or anything? I rarely see these ever get used by JP players, probably because they are unsafe as heck without any meter and there's better options Ram could be using meter for in neutral. Anyone here use them for gimmicky air tech catches though?

 

It's nice to go ham every now and then. The move might be high risk high reward but as long as you throw it out sparingly, your opponent will probably forget that you have that 2s/2h and will space themselves wrongly against it from time to time. The hitbox is gigantic after all.

[Putin]

Yeah I was referring to that theory. There are obviously a million better alternatives (for us at least), but it'd definitely be better from now.

[hypersonic]

Generally the sword nerfs are kinda too much.The fact that they drop down by bursting is stupid.People don't respect your neutral if you don't set it up correctly and they start punching the familiars.This also affects her meter build and sildo detruo(pretty useless) and cassius don't make up for it,as far as meter build is concerned.I mean if you imagine it, the swords could have been much worse in vanilla xrd.Like 2S hitting overhead,or swords continuing their action even when Ramlethal was forced to block.Swords were strong back then, but not anything broken.

I want to believe that sooner or later in another iteration of Xrd they will revert the sword changes,but i'm not holding my breath.Anyway, Ogawa mentions that there aren't big gaps in tiers and that balance is good.What's important in this version are matchups.This version has been out for like 2 months.Ram's neutral gameplan is completely changed.So two months to adjust to her new changes and master all these matchups and how to play with the new sword nerfs,it's early.Imo she has the tools and the potential to be A tier,instead of B(one of the best corner okis in the game,still great damage for this kind of character,full corner carry so you don't have to compromise with mediocre midscreen oki,2 of the best supers in the game,command grab).Another question that arises about these tierlists,is against what Rams do Ogawa and Sharon play against (Hohiko?) and how often.Anytime i watch Jonio stream i rarely or never see any Ramlethal gameplay.

[zaeris]

In terms of match up from my view she is getting outzone which is karma lol. And when fighting up close she doesnt have an advantage there.

About super, well I do agree they are good until new mechanics are introduce supers will become somewhat redundant if yrc hasnt replace most of them already. Im looking at or thinking of FB, if eddie ever gets ex drill back our super would look fair.

[matic]

It'd be nice if the swords had some sort of armor hitpoint threshold so that the opponent would have to use a move like f.S or j.H to make it fall down instead of merely doing a 5P or j.P, similar to how Asterius works with S.Lab in P4U. At the same time, they could also serve as meatshields against weaker attacks and projectiles.

But yeah, I'd really like to see ArcSys make some of Ram's other moves very viable in neutral because it does feel like I'm just throwing f.S and j.S or j.H and fishing for counterhit confirms. Cassius feels like a great move to use sometimes during neutral or after a blocked f.S. The wiki says it's -1 on block, but is that for when Cassius is used point-blank? I played a lengthy set today and noticed blocked f.S > Cassius > Dauro would sometimes catch my opponent if they pressed a button or tried to jump without FDing. Cassius > Dauro feels like a frame trap when used at midrange, I don't know, I'd have to test it out or something.

Just wondering, but do you guys ever use 2S+ or 2H+ in neutral at all, like to catch airdashes or anything? I rarely see these ever get used by JP players, probably because they are unsafe as heck without any meter and there's better options Ram could be using meter for in neutral. Anyone here use them for gimmicky air tech catches though?

I use 2H a lot in midrange with cassius

[hypersonic]

In terms of match up from my view she is getting outzone which is karma lol. And when fighting up close she doesnt have an advantage there.

About super, well I do agree they are good until new mechanics are introduce supers will become somewhat redundant if yrc hasnt replace most of them already. Im looking at or thinking of FB, if eddie ever gets ex drill back our super would look fair.

 

Force Breaks would be an interesting returning mechanic.Sadly i can't think a way of how Ramlethal could use it.Maybe Cassius ala GGAC I-No notes,but if it isn't fully controllable it would probably be worthless.

With GG Xrd Revelator around the corner (for arcades at least) ,we should just wait and see the new balance changes.Also keen on testing Johnny and  seeing who the new character is (except if its a revamped Bridget lol).

[Nyaa]

2S is a great move when you want to go for mad reads, don't forget you can YRC it on reaction if you see it will miss.

 

On another note, the local fgc xrd-players I play against (Sol, Millia and Faust) are complaining about Rams moves being op and easy to use... now that I'm wrecking their shit. They never complained before the patch, no no. NOW is the time to complain. You have no idea how much I hope they announce buffs for Ram now, if only to harvest their tears.

[Complexity]

It's true. Ramlethal normals are actually very strong, but the world was built around normals and gatlings. Kindly let 5k gatling into 2k and vice versa in the next game.

[Scrubplayer]

kindly let 5K or 2K gatling into c.S pls

[zaeris]

Guess im curious but what are the option for 5kk4k corner kd. I seem to have issue trying to find a mix up to puts them back into the corner but flexible enough that can be change so it doesnt become predictable.

[Layer]

I just picked her up recently so I have no idea how good she was pre patch, but I think she's fun as hell and has a lot of potential. Those nerfs from the sounds of it made sense for the most part in terms of balancing her out. Maybe it's just because I main Testament in Plus R and she has shades of him in terms of these weird set up pressures. Guess that's why I'm not too iffy about her swords being easily cancelled out by the opponent. Kinda used to the idea my traps with Testaments being easily destroyed.

[matic]

I just picked her up recently so I have no idea how good she was pre patch, but I think she's fun as hell and has a lot of potential. Those nerfs from the sounds of it made sense for the most part in terms of balancing her out. Maybe it's just because I main Testament in Plus R and she has shades of him in terms of these weird set up pressures. Guess that's why I'm not too iffy about her swords being easily cancelled out by the opponent. Kinda used to the idea my traps with Testaments being easily destroyed.

You don't really see the nerfs until you play someone who knows her gimmicks (swording her way out of bad situations) and has good pressure. The patch really just made her more momentum based imo.

The game plan basically the same post patch in that someone could easily make a ram version of the Ken flowchart. But instead of "did it hit" it would be "did I get a hard knock down"

[Nyaa]

I think he doesn't see the nerfs because he didn't play her when she was top tier.

 

Layer, just know that her neutral is worse, pressure is worse, jP is worse, damage is worse, toranshi is worse and beam super is kinda better.

[RWA Announcer]

At the risk of inadvertently bringing more depression upon us, FAB put out a tier list while he was in Germany, since he disagreed with Ogawa and Sharon. He'll also have placement explanations later this week.

S+: Zato-1, Milia

S: Elphelt, Faust, Axl

A: Sol, Ky, Chipp, Sin

B: (in order from strongest to weakest) I-No, May, Venom, Leo, Bedman, Slayer, Rammy

C: Potemkin