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Umareru

[FB] THE-O

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Boasting high maneuverability, strong defenses in pressure and the Bolinoak Sammahn as well as a top class melee moveset, The O is a weapon of choice for frontline specialists. All movelist info is taken and probably correctly translated from the Japanese Wiki page at http://www4.atwiki.jp/arcgundamexvsfuvo/pages/34.html

Movelist

[A] Beam Rifle [70DMG, 3 second reload per shot]
While only sporting 5 ammo, this BR comes out fast.

[AB] Palace Summon [30-83DMG, 10 second reload]
Palace Athene rushes at the enemy with decent tracking and slashes the opponent. If hit, the enemy will be stunned. 3 ammo.

[AC]Bolinoak Sammahn Summon[50DMG, 100HP, 15 second reload]
Summons Bolinoak Sammahn to follow you around and assist you. It will absorb up to 100dmg for you, and fires intermittently whenever you do.

[bC] Pressure [0 DMG, 23 second reload]
Charges for roughly 2 seconds with superarmor, before releasing a huge sphere of energy that stuns all units in the radius. Cannot be blocked.

[csB] Beam Rifle Full Assault [48-100DMG] >>> Melee followup [109-134DMG]
Moves the suit towards the enemy and fires a beams in a wide row. Has a melee followup if you press B afterwards, which can be cancelled for free into any other melee origination.

[ABC] EX burst attack: Giant Beam Sword [289 DMG in Assault Burst, 270 DMG in Blast]
A quick and extremely powerful EX burst attack, 4 giant swords come swinging down and does immense damage in a single hit.
 

 

Combos

 

BR Starters:

BR>BR>BR: 147DMG
BR>AB>BR: 153DMG
BR>AB>5BBB: 169DMG
BR>AB>8B: 181DMG
BR>AB>2B: 205DMG
BR>5BBB: 171DMG
BR>5BBB>BR: 181DMG
BR>BD B(1HIT)>2B: 208DMG
BR>2B: 153-203DMG

5B Starters:
5BB>5BBB>BR: 226DMG
5BB>6BB>BR: 230DMG
5BB>2B: 203-246DMG

8B Starters:
8B(1hit)>6B>BR: 216DMG
8B(1hit)>2B: 159-229DMG
8B(1hit)>8B:175DMG
8B>BD B: 203DMG
8B>2B: 210-250DMG


6B Starters:
6BB>AB>2B: 237DMG
6BB>5BB>BR: 233DMG

2B Starters:
2B(before the kick)>8B: 175-255DMG
2B(before the kick)>6BB>BR: 216-296DMG
2B(before the kick)>2B: 159-300DMG
2B(before the kick)>BD B (1hit)>2B: 182-322DMG

BD B Starters:
BD B> BD BB:187DMG
BD B> 5BBB >BR: 207DMG
BD B >6BB > BR: 217DMG
BD BB>8B: 232DMG
BD BB >2B: 272DMG

Combos into EX Burst: (First number is Assault, Second is Blast)
5BBB>ABC: 329/308
6BB>ABC: 324/304


 

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I spent over an hour ripping stuff from the Japanese wiki because I really want to discuss this suit, and I'm surprised a topic hasn't been made yet for this guy.

 

Basically, the Japanese wiki says that The O is top tier in all aspects and has no problems going up against 3k suits. The only aspect it's weak in is that the body is large. Everything else from this point on is my opinion.

 

The BR has very little ammo, a simple zunda will use up almost all your ammo so you almost always won't do this. Make up for the ammo loss by meleeing when possible after a landed BR, or cancelling into the AB. 

 

The AB has decent tracking and goes a good distance, so it's really something you want to just cancel into freely after BRs. This has very little value being done on its own, IMO.

 

8B (The Giant Swing) has great melee priority and dash speed, but the interval between the initial grab and the throw is quite long, and as such you will do low damage if interrupted. The best way to overcome this is to immediately cancel into 6B or other melee moves after the initial grab. 

 

Pressure is such an aptly named move, because simply having it in your arsenal makes opponents wary of coming too close. The O can comfortable stand right in front of the enemy on wakeup and watch experienced players choose to run almost every single time. Suits like Epyon and Master have a tough time against you as long as you have this move, and when you add the fact that you have great melee damage and priority, it's not hard to imagine The O facing those melee monsters down as an equal. 

 

I find it very difficult to use the csB effectively, so if anyone of you have tips for it that would be awesome. I don't see many Japanese players using it though, and I find it very risky because of the slight chasing animation before the beams are fired. I think it's a great move to use on a fleeing enemy, but if they choose to attack instead you're probably going to lose out.

 

Play style wise, I feel comfortable switching in and out of the front position, and the suit is versatile enough to operate in close and mid range, much like Sinanju. The suit teams well with just about any suit from any cost, although you'll have to adjust your playstyle depending on your teammate.

 

If any of you have good replay videos or your own tips to share, please do! 

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Small question with Reccoa if anyone knows, I notice sometimes 2 br + ab isn't enough for a full knockdown.  Does this have to do with how down value is restored over time?  Because it seems it only happens at long ranges.

 

Also thanks for taking the time to write down the damage numbers.

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The O's csB->Melee Followup doesn't need to be rainbow stepped to cancel into a melee string. It cancels directly into any pretty much any melee.

 

You can do things like csB->Melee Followup->6B(1)->2B(mash) when in overheat, and the entire sequence is just a string of cancels. It's not all that uncommon to just see BR->csB->Melee Followup->2B(mash) at the end of an extended chase that leads to an overheat punish.

 

 

csB is also useful for changing your falling momentum or adjusting your trajectory. I believe it also has low profile properties, in the sense that you can slide under opponent BRs with it similarly to Master Gundam's 8B.

 

 

By the way, the wiki link in the OP has the right bracket ']' stuck in it right now, so the link isn't working properly.

 

Small question with Reccoa if anyone knows, I notice sometimes 2 br + ab isn't enough for a full knockdown.  Does this have to do with how down value is restored over time?  Because it seems it only happens at long ranges.

 

Also thanks for taking the time to write down the damage numbers.

 

Down value doesn't restore over time. It resets after 3 seconds during which a player takes no damage. There's no gradual progression on that.

 

The reason you'll see BR >> BR -> Sub not down people at long ranges is likely because you're so far away that the sub doesn't land all of its hits before disappearing. It needs to hit the opponent 3 times with its sword grind before they'll get downed. This can, if I recall correctly, also occur if your sub hits the opponent from a very awkward angle.

 

 

 

Here's the basic info related to this:

 

- Suits will yellow out if they accumulate 5+ down value.

- BRs cause 2 down value per shot

- Each hit from The O's sub causes 0.4 down value, up to a maximum of 3 hits for 1.2 down value

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Thanks Tari, made the necessary changes.

 

I played some rounds with The O today but I'm having a lot of trouble with it. My main issue is I find his melee moves quite awkward and difficult to use, for example 4B, while having good priority in close range, doesnt travel very far or fast and as such I find it's not suited for chasing.

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Thanks Tari, made the necessary changes.

 

I played some rounds with The O today but I'm having a lot of trouble with it. My main issue is I find his melee moves quite awkward and difficult to use, for example 4B, while having good priority in close range, doesnt travel very far or fast and as such I find it's not suited for chasing.

Get used to landing and gaining boost advantage rather than relying on melee travel speed to catch up to people.  The O isn't necessarily a "melee" suit but he has fantastic priority on his melee.  You will find yourself either able to br their landing or punish them with melee when they try to sneak one.(all just depends on how you+your opponent end up moving)  Although you will have times where you just want that extra little bit of "oomph" to punish a landing or chase someone who can only just barely inch away from you and that's where some finesse with his 8b/csB can come in handy.  Most of the time though I just stick to br unless I'm underneath my opponent or I know he's going to be in a panic situation.

 

If you just try to run up and melee people recklessly your opponent is just going to do some variation of turn around and shoot you.

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Get used to landing and gaining boost advantage rather than relying on melee travel speed to catch up to people.  The O isn't necessarily a "melee" suit but he has fantastic priority on his melee.  You will find yourself either able to br their landing or punish them with melee when they try to sneak one.(all just depends on how you+your opponent end up moving)  Although you will have times where you just want that extra little bit of "oomph" to punish a landing or chase someone who can only just barely inch away from you and that's where some finesse with his 8b/csB can come in handy.  Most of the time though I just stick to br unless I'm underneath my opponent or I know he's going to be in a panic situation.

 

If you just try to run up and melee people recklessly your opponent is just going to do some variation of turn around and shoot you.

 

Yes! That's exactly what I'm working on doing better. I thought he's more melee oriented like X1 due to the low ammo count, but it seems I gotta use the summons to make up for the ammo count. Thanks!

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What is the deal with people discounting The O's ranged presence.  There is absolutely nothing horrendously flawed with the suits ranged gameplay outside of really frantic matches where your partner cant handle himself because you cant br spam people away from him, which are already fairly dire matches as any suit.

 

The br has great startup, ammo correction, and travel speed.  Sub gives you plenty of time to hitconfirm a followup(you basically can tell when a shot is about to hit and shoot your 2nd br way late), and AC makes up for your lack of ammo quite well. 3s reload is not very bad either.

 

There is just a lot of talk and even on the wiki there is the idea YOU GOTTA USE PRESSURE WELL BECAUSE YOUR RANGED GAME SUCKS.  Maybe I just play against better players who try their hardest to bait it so I never relied on pressure but I only see it as a really strong trump card when I know someones going to commit to a melee or some other desperation move.  The suit is hella maneuverable.

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What is the deal with people discounting The O's ranged presence.  There is absolutely nothing horrendously flawed with the suits ranged gameplay outside of really frantic matches where your partner cant handle himself because you cant br spam people away from him, which are already fairly dire matches as any suit.

 

The br has great startup, ammo correction, and travel speed.  Sub gives you plenty of time to hitconfirm a followup(you basically can tell when a shot is about to hit and shoot your 2nd br way late), and AC makes up for your lack of ammo quite well. 3s reload is not very bad either.

 

There is just a lot of talk and even on the wiki there is the idea YOU GOTTA USE PRESSURE WELL BECAUSE YOUR RANGED GAME SUCKS.  Maybe I just play against better players who try their hardest to bait it so I never relied on pressure but I only see it as a really strong trump card when I know someones going to commit to a melee or some other desperation move.  The suit is hella maneuverable.

 

As the one who translated the wiki and also plays The O a bit:

 

- His ranged game isn't bad, but it's not good either.  BR --> Sub only works at close-mid range, and anything farther than that gives the opponent enough time to step or shield the Sub.  

AC is amazing, but it still doesn't change the fact you're very reliant on your low-ammo BR.  5 ammo really hurts, since it really only gives you 2 zundas before you're out (factoring in the reload speed).  

When you compare it to Freedom, an all-purpose suit with comparable mobility to The O, he has 8 BRs with the same reload, a 2 ammo Sub that hit-confirms at all ranges, and an AC gerobi.  

 

- Pressure is good not because his ranged game sucks, but because his close-range game is hella good.  6B and 8B are amazing, and your BR --> Sub works stably at closer range.

It's the synergy with the rest of The O's moveset that's important.  Qubeley technically has a better Pressure than The O (greater range), but it's less useful with her since she wants to be far away from the action away, so she mostly just uses it to run away.

Comparatively, The O can get 150~200 damage off it and build meter with 2B, and in Burst can deal 250~330 damage off it with a Burst Attack.

 

- At high level play, it becomes a yomi game of "you predict that he predicts that you'll use Pressure".  i.e. if you stand beside a downed opponent, you can fake Pressure and just vector match and punish as they attempt to run from the Pressure.

 

In the end, the ranged game part is all relative.  

 

He's better than most melee suits (God, Xenon, etc.), but below most all-purpose suits (Freedom, Infinite Justice, etc.), which isn't very good.  

 

The reason the wiki emphasizes Pressure & his close-range capabilities is because it's what he excels at.  Pressure lets him beat melee suits at their own game (albeit for a single exchange), and is a near-unbeatable option if your opponent is in range.  Your melees will beat out basically every non-melee suit if they're in reach.

 

Your Burst Attack is another prime reason to be in close range, since melee combo --> ABC is a free 300+ damage in about 2 seconds if you're in Assault Burst.

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5 ammo really hurts, since it really only gives you 2 zundas before you're out (factoring in the reload speed).

 

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU ZUNDA WITH THE O.

 

Of course you go in and capitalize on damage, but spending your partners whole first life just playing a safe ranged game is very VERY strong with a lot of suits.  Once you have a significant amount of health preserved you can really go ham.  If the O was lackluster as a 2.5k back he would definitely be rated far far lower.

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WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU ZUNDA WITH THE O.

 

Of course you go in and capitalize on damage, but spending your partners whole first life just playing a safe ranged game is very VERY strong with a lot of suits.  Once you have a significant amount of health preserved you can really go ham.  If the O was lackluster as a 2.5k back he would definitely be rated far far lower.

 

The zunda example was more to emphasize his poor ammo count.  That being said, zundas are his only real way to get knockdowns at long range, and downs are important to allow your team to build momentum and approach.

 

As I said, BR --> Sub only works at closer ranges, and even with AC up you still need 2 BRs to force down.  It's certainly possible to conserve ammo and play a constant ranged game with The O, but if you're up against another top tier team that has a good ranged presence (i.e. S-rank 3000 + S-rank 2000), you'll be at a distinct disadvantage.

 

While playing the ranged game is perfectly viable (primarily due to AC & The O's mobility), a lot of suits just do it better.  Pretty much all the S-rank 2000s (Kshatriya, Delta, Zeong, Hambrabi) all have better ranged weapons, and have lower cost at that.

 

The wiki (and by extension, myself) aren't trying to tell you how to play The O.  If you enjoy playing The O as a 2500 back role, that's all that really matters.  However, it's hard to argue that The O's ranged game is good, when you consider his competition amongst the strongest 2500s & 2000s (hell, even some 1000s).

 

As for his tier placement, IIRC the tiers on exvsrank page are based on tournament results (according to the tier list thread, brett or someone with better knowledge will need to chime in on that).  As a result, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's good partnered with 3000s, just that he places well in tournaments.  He's inarguably one of the top 2500s in the 2500-1000 team comp though.

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If they block the sub you get a huge positioning advantage, you're fairly set to start closing distance and looking for a melee situation.  At this point you're probably going to land and get boost advantage and you're going to be looking for a closer ranged game.  If you have AC up you can play a normal ranged game with br pokes, your ammo reloads extremely fast.  Your mobility outclasses the majority of suits which is arguably far more important for playing a ranged game coupled with a fast BR with good accuracy you ave a great capacity to punish landings.  His BR has a low ammo count to keep him out of elder god tear due to his mobility, just like WZTV(oh wait).

 

Delta plus BR is more spammable but slower, kshatriya BR is garbage(big domage) but she funnels and amekyans for days.  Hamrabi wins clean especially when AC is up, zeong wins at midrange so you're forced to commit to close or longrange.  If the suit wasn't more than capable of playing and winning ranged with 3k's and 2.5k's I don't see how the suit could be any good at all.  All his melees are punish oriented and are dogshit for chasing.  8b being the strongest chase option.

 

The only thing about The O is that due to his slow melee travel speed outside of 8b which is punishable, and his low ammo count you run the risk of getting caught up in doing one thing for too long.  If you fight a WZTV and zeong/kshat/hamrabi team that ONLY wants to run away, you're not a suit well positioned to break that duo.  In fact very few suit combos are, and one that could got nerfed(Reborns/HeavyArms)

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If they block the sub you get a huge positioning advantage, you're fairly set to start closing distance and looking for a melee situation.  At this point you're probably going to land and get boost advantage and you're going to be looking for a closer ranged game.  If you have AC up you can play a normal ranged game with br pokes, your ammo reloads extremely fast.  Your mobility outclasses the majority of suits which is arguably far more important for playing a ranged game coupled with a fast BR with good accuracy you ave a great capacity to punish landings.  His BR has a low ammo count to keep him out of elder god tear due to his mobility, just like WZTV(oh wait).

 

Delta plus BR is more spammable but slower, kshatriya BR is garbage(big domage) but she funnels and amekyans for days.  Hamrabi wins clean especially when AC is up, zeong wins at midrange so you're forced to commit to close or longrange.  If the suit wasn't more than capable of playing and winning ranged with 3k's and 2.5k's I don't see how the suit could be any good at all.  All his melees are punish oriented and are dogshit for chasing.  8b being the strongest chase option.

 

The only thing about The O is that due to his slow melee travel speed outside of 8b which is punishable, and his low ammo count you run the risk of getting caught up in doing one thing for too long.  If you fight a WZTV and zeong/kshat/hamrabi team that ONLY wants to run away, you're not a suit well positioned to break that duo.  In fact very few suit combos are, and one that could got nerfed(Reborns/HeavyArms)

 

I think we're missing each other here.  All I'm saying is that he's not a good dedicated ranged rear guard, especially when you consider how strong Pressure & his melees are.  Your first paragraph is something that I (& the wiki) certainly agree with, in that his ranged tools are primarily for allowing him to establish his close-range game.  I'm not trying to say The O is a melee suit by any means, since you don't want to be close to opposing melee suits (i.e. God, X1) unless you have Pressure up.

 

His BR reload is completely average (3 seconds/1 ammo), and his AC has a substantial reload (15 seconds), so I don't know what you mean by "your ammo reloads extremely fast."  Yes his mobility & above-average BR lets him hunt for landing punishes, but his ranged landing punishes are mediocre (you yourself admitted zundas are bad because of his low ammo count, and Sub doesn't hit confirm at long range).  As for Wing Zero TV, he has CSA as a single-hit-down tool to preserve ammo, and has his threatening AC Rolling Buster for mid-range too.

 

With regards to the 2000 comparison, Delta Plus also has a Sub that can hit-confirm at much farther ranges than The O, and his amekyan is much more consistent (2 ammo + better reload).  I have no clue what you mean when Kshatriya's BR is garbage, it does 80 damage (10 more than The O's) with the same reload and superior ammo count.  Zeong has his free CSA, gerobi, and infinite amekyan.  This was more to illustrate that trying to play a dedicated ranged game like Delta/Kshatriya/Zeong/Hambrabi is not playing to The O's strengths when you compare them directly.

 

I agree that The O's melees are poor for approaching due to their low reach & rush speed, but that's where his excellent mobility, AC, & Pressure come into play.

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