[LM] Heart Aino

[Tigre]

 

Introduction

Welcome to the Heart thread, where we discuss all things Aino! Please discuss character strategy, combos, Arcana synergy, match-ups, and other relevant topics here. Please also feel free to post up any questions you may have about the character as well.

 

Heart Aino Wiki Page

 

Notable Players

Gotou (G.T.O.)

Momiji

Banbaban

[Tigre]

The Heart wiki page is one of the most complete we have. So I'll go over the changes from AH3 > AH3LM in this post. Heart got hit with some fairly drastic changes. They don't exactly change the way she plays in neutral but it changes her combo and knockdown game quite a bit. Feel free to ask questions, I've been playing this character for three years!

 

The biggest three changes are the super cancel removal on EX Hisatsu Kick. The change to where the DP Follow-up throws the other character, and the removal of j.C > j.E in combo (outside of EFC Combos of course).

 

These all help to reinforce the same issue- we need to decide between solid okizeme and damage, no longer can we get full combo into EX Hisatsu Kick and get free left right mixup with an arcana special.

 

The DP Follow-up now throws the other character farther away. This can actually help Heart at very specific locations on the screen by putting the other character at a very bad angle to eat left/right in the corner (Remember that you can freely cross up in the corner!), but in most spacing it will mean that at best you'll get limited lockdown by activating EX Thunder while you get in on the other player.

 

j.C > j.E is a change that reverts Heart to how she was in AH1/AH2. This, once again limits the damage and okizeme for combos. If you want to run oki you can still end a combo in a low j.E xx Arcana special.

 

Not everything was nerfs for Heart though. You can get greater utility out of Ribbon Beam to help extend combos on the ground meterlessly  (Your meterless ground combo options are now much, much more stable than they were in vanilla) as well as some goofy left/right with C Ribbon Beam. DP Follow up can now be performed on wiff, which will help to mask wiffed reversals for at least up through intermediate play. The air clash game is bolstered with the (undocumented) change (for some reason) to Hisatsu Kick that grants it first frame clash. 

 

Heart still plays very similarly, but with a more cautious mindset. You need to pick your battles on knockdown a bit more intelligently, be ready to shift to blocking more easily from your pressure. Heart still has some of the best normals in the game and a very oppressive clash game, so she's still a very scary character! 

[.ShotS]

The j.C hitstun nerf is massive. Even CH j.C feels like it doesn't have the hitstun of AH3 non-CH j.C. j.A is still good even if the proration got nerfed, j.4B is still godlike, j.E is great and j.C's hitbox still seems good. They didn't touch her air DPs so you can still be a huge asshole with those so that's nice.

 

I feel like Heart is the same character at her core but just worse really. Still fun to use.

[AJSmith325]

What about for match up's where you need to use Love instead of Lighting (I think Scharl is one), do you still want to end with jE or DP?  I known DP works better in the corner.

 

Also what's the new EFC combo that you showed me?

[Tigre]

Arcana selection is funny in LM now. I don't think there's one definite choice for arcana, especially means you don't get oki off of every situation, and the stat nerfs to Thunder (but thunder activation is easier to combo off of now). I still think I'll primarily play Thunder, but I don't see anything bad about going for Love in matchups like Petra even. Scharl is obviously one you'd want to play love for means Clash isn't as strong there.

 

If possible for combo enders you want to go for DP > EX Hisatsu Kick (omitting DP Follow up where necessary). You don't get as strong a reward for it, but it's still your most damaging ender. j.E is a strong ender to continue pressure,  but I think you need to handle that on a player by player basis for how much you think you can push that player. DP ender is strong in the corner still, if it connects because you end up right on top of them.

 

Top three arcana I would go to are going to mirror my choices in vanilla. The beauty of playing Heart is that your arcana selection honestly just reflects how you want to play the character (with some obvious exceptions like Ice or Time). I'm going to say Thunder, Love then Flower based on personal preferences.

 

That EF combo is the only one I have listed on the wiki currently. I will fill in some other combos this week.

[Tigre]

So I entirely forgot that Examu gave Heart another change on EX Tekken Punch (besides it being air blockable now). You can charge the super by holding down A+B.

 

I have no idea what the hell we're supposed to do with this. I'm open to other peoples ideas :v

[LunaKage]

Now I'm not a huge Arcana player or anything, but I've gotten extremely interested in playing Heart. Pretty much everything I'm going to say is my experience with watching Greats play with Heart.

 

His favorite Arcana selection for her was Plant, and despite my inexperience, I can totally see why. First off the ease in which you can combo off of hitconfirms is a big draw, and while I know she's got good meterless combos in love max for both midscreen and corner, it's always really nice to have more options, since a max range 5C > 236E is gonna be much easier than doing her 2C > 421A confirm. I think it's 412A, I forget the input lol

 

Another really awesome thing he showed me with Plant is that she has an unblockable after an air combo ending in j.E > 214214E, which resets into a full combo. Forgive me if these things are a universal thing with Plant, but I still think it's worth mentioning, since, I mean come on, UNBLOCKABLES.

 

As far as the charged EX Tekken, I saw Greats combo into it I believe, does more damage maybe?

[Tigre]

Plant Heart is nerfed, sadly

First you have more recovery on blocked plant vine, to the point where it's very punishable. Second you now cannot super cancel EX Hisatsu Kick which limits your seed chances.

iirc vine won't pick up if the other player is crouching (or at least it was that way in vanilla), which is what I used to do against players I knew didn't have proper confirms.

I've also never been hit by or seen the unblockable in action, so I can't really comment on how useful it is.

 

I think Plant is a fine choice, but I prefer thunder/love. The utility from plant is nerfed thanks to the removed cancel point, and plant is overall a weaker arcana. I personally feel like I have more to gain from the improved clash game from Thunder or full screen love beam > homing combos with Love, but that's what's cool about this game you can play pretty much whatever you want with Heart lol

[nadakaineko]

The only thing I can say about Plant is that you don't really use vine in strings anyway -- you can hit confirm off 2A 5C and then determine if you need to jump or continue the combo with vine.

[nekohime]

iirc vine won't pick up if the other player is crouching (or at least it was that way in vanilla), which is what I used to do against players I knew didn't have proper confirms.

I mained plant Kamui in vanilla and I know this was character dependant, so I just did some testing in LM.  Using Kamui the larger characters like Cathy, Kira, Nazuna, and Eko can be picked up with vine while they are crouching, although in some cases the tip of the vine can whiff if you are too far away.  Heart is a little shorter than Kamui but I don't think it would change who can be picked up, though it might change who/where it will whiff against.  Konoha, and I imagine other short characters, will pick up any crouching character at full range.

 

So basically, if you plan on using vine to extend combos pay close attention to whether your opponent is standing or crouching when you start the combo, and do something else if they are crouching.  Unless you're playing against a large character, then you can just do vine combos all day long.  Do be careful about using it in blockstrings though, In vanilla (with Kamui at least) a blocked vine would generally push them far enough away to be safe but after a while people start 4GCing.  Now the recovery is worse making it even more risky.

[LunaKage]

I played Plant Kamui myself in Vanilla, and the question about crouchers was one of the first things I asked Greats about. He said it was spacing dependent, due to Vine's hitbox upon retraction, he said that Kamui's 5C would push you back far enough for it to not work on crouchers. So I assume Heart's 5C would put you in a better position to hit crouchers with vine. I haven't been able to confirm this however, since I don't own the game yet ;w;

[nekohime]

I mean no disrespect to you or to Greats, and I'm sure he's much better and more knowelgeable about the game than I am, but I tested everything I posted before posting it.  Whether or not the vine lifts a crouching opponent on hit is dependant on the size of the opponent and the hight at wich vine comes out.  The taller your character is the higher the vine comes out.  With short characters (such as Konoha) the vine comes out very close to the ground and will lift anyone at any range, crouching or not.  With taller characters (Kamui, Heart, etc.) the vine comes out higher up and will not lift short or medium characters if they are crouching, even at close range.  It will lift large characters as long as it hits.

[LunaKage]

Hmm, interesting. I'll ask him about it again then, because he made it sound like it would work.

[Tigre]

So I was playing with ghostcobra last night and we sorta tested the charged EX Tekken Punch. We think it's AUB but I can't get into training mode to actually confirm that until later :v

[toanenadiz]

It's air unblockable

[Tigre]

I figured as much. Still think the charge is silly. Also the ex hisatsu kick cancel is not entirely gone, looks like it's height restricted though

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[AJSmith325]

So what arcana can I use other than Lightning and Love for neutral?

 

Also trying to find match footage of Heart is harder than trying to find that one sock that's missing its pair after doing laundry.

[Tigre]

Heart isn't a super popular character in Japan, not even when she was top tier.

There is an atwiki page that I can't seem to find at the moment with nico links. I don't remember being super impressed with the level of play.

As far as Arcana selection, I don't think there's a really bad choice as long as the Arcana doesn't change your 6HC or your Extend Force movement. I think the old standards are still the most strong because of their stats, but Thunder is a bit less useful because of the oki nerf.

[AJSmith325]

I never realized how big that jC nerf was until I finally understood that it was the reason the old BnB is so hard.

[Tigre]

The new HC combo isn't that bad when you training mode it for 10 minutes. It still sucks and I don't think the change needed to be that severe.

[Tigre]

So I've been sitting on this for a while, and i may as well share. Ribbon Beam can be used in the corner after the first tekken punch to help stabilize corner combos and leads to a really easy air route. The trade off is a bit of damage so it's good if you got pushed out of the corner and want to make sure everything connects.

[bbq sauce]

Heart isn't a super popular character in Japan, not even when she was top tier.

There is an atwiki page that I can't seem to find at the moment with nico links. I don't remember being super impressed with the level of play.

As far as Arcana selection, I don't think there's a really bad choice as long as the Arcana doesn't change your 6HC or your Extend Force movement. I think the old standards are still the most strong because of their stats, but Thunder is a bit less useful because of the oki nerf.

I know I'm wild late here, but can you elaborate on the oki nerf?

[.ShotS]

I know I'm wild late here, but can you elaborate on the oki nerf?

j.623X->j.214X is a terrible ender when you want to pressure after it now.

j.214AB got nerfed so you can't EFC(and super cancel iirc) which means you don't get shit off it.

[Tigre]

I know I'm wild late here, but can you elaborate on the oki nerf?

The oki nerf is threefold.

a.)The trajectory on Heart's DP follow up now sends them further away. This means canceling into Thunder is much worse.

b.)The EX cancel from EX Hisatsu Kick is now height restricted (Very low, so much that it's entirely impractical) so you can't cancel EX Hisatsu Kick at all even the EFC cancel into 5C for force restand.

c.)Thunder has worse stat buffs.

[.ShotS]

The oki nerf is threefold.

a.)The trajectory on Heart's DP follow up now sends them further away. This means canceling into Thunder is much worse.

b.)The EX cancel from EX Hisatsu Kick is now height restricted (Very low, so much that it's entirely impractical) so you can't cancel EX Hisatsu Kick at all even the EFC cancel into 5C for force restand.

c.)Thunder has worse stat buffs.

The thunder one doesn't matter at all...