[LM] Kamui Tokinomiya

[Tigre]

 

Introduction

Welcome to the Kamui thread! Please discuss character strategy, combos, Arcana synergy, match-ups, and other relevant topics here. Please also feel free to post up any questions you may have about the character as well.

 

Kamui Wiki Page

 

Notable Players

Archer

Shimatsuri

OTK

[LordSpectreX]

j,A

 

Thread Complete. Good job guys, hopefully the other character's strategies will be finalized soon.

[SolxBaiken]

Wait, is j.A that legit? I mainly use j.B [for air-to-air] or j.C [for air-to-ground] in y Homing approach.

 

Also people said 3B was made faster and more viable as an anti-air, but it seems just as borderline worthless as it was before .v.

 

also it should be 5B > 5C > Super /thread :x

[7thFonon]

jA has a much longer hitbox than it did in AH3. It's pretty good now (not that it wasn't already a decent move to use in AH3).

 

3B is really good for combos, air unblockable setups, and anti-air versus some characters. The clashbox isn't too bad either.

[SolxBaiken]

Hmm, guess I'll go experiment with those in a bit . . .

 

Also how am I supposed to be using 6A?

[nadakaineko]

6A is a combo stability move!

[SolxBaiken]

Stability?

[nadakaineko]

Shoulda just said a combo move -- you use it in combos to stabilize the opponents height while comboing them (usually to raise their height).

[SolxBaiken]

Hmm, I see . . . I guess I shall try experimenting with that as well . . .

 

Think that is all the Qs I have right now, thanks for the As.

[M19Kamikaze]

So aside from BC > Super, what are some notable combos for her?

[nekohime]

Since there's not much info here yet and wiki page is blank I guess I'll post a few basic combos.  Most of this is carried over from vanilla, and if anyone has better stuff feel free to contribute.

Meterless

2A 2B 2C [4]6B - 5 hits 4,440 dmg, pushes opponent away from you a bit, needs to be right up on them for [4]6B to combo.  You can also replace 2C with 1E and use either [4]6B (3370 dmg) or [4]6C (4170 dmg) which will leave opponent in the air.

5B 5C 41236C - 3 hits 5,818 dmg, 5B needs to connect at about half of it's max range for 41236C to combo.

2B 2C 41236C - 3 hits 5,444 dmg, combos from closer to the edge of 2B so distance may be easer to judge than 5B.

41236C 41236C - 2 hits 4,760 dmg, opponent can tech before you recover so may be unsafe outside of certain combos.  The second 41236C needs to be input in the same direction as the first, before Kamui stands up.  I find it easiest to input while she is sheathing her sword.

j.A j.B dj.A dj.B dj.C 421C - 8 hits 7,412 dmg, air combo ender.  In some combos 421B will be easier to connect

1 Meter (super, homing, or EFC)

5B 5C (or 2B 2C) 236A+B - 4 hits 7,160 dmg (or 6,786 dmg with 2B 2C).  If you are too far away to combo 41236C after B C then 236A+B will at least get you some damage and a knockdown.

5B 5C (or 2B 2C) 41236C 236A+B - 5 hits 7,968 dmg (or 7,594 dmg with 2B 2C).  Immediately after 41236C hits, input 236A+B in the same direction.  This is really only useful if you can't 6HC or EFC in your combos yet, as there are much better things you can do after comboing into 41236C.

5B 5C (or 2B 2C) 41236C 6HC 3B j.A j.B dj.A dj.B dj.C dj.421B - 11 hits 9,397 dmg (or 9,023 dmg with 2B 2C).  6HC needs to be input in the opposite direction as 41236C.  Fairly simple with decent damage from 1 meter.  421C can be used but may only hit twice anyway. dj.236A+B or arcana super can be added after 421B for extra damage and/or oki setup, although you may be too high up for oki to be effective.

5B 5C (or 2B 2C) 41236C EFC 5A 5B 3B j.A j.B dj.A dj.B dj.C dj.421B - 13 hits 9,667 dmg (or 9,293 with 2B 2C).  EFC version of the above combo.

Plant Meterless Combo

5B 5C (or 2B 2C) 236E 5B 5C 236E 5A j.A j.B j.C 421C - 15 hits 9,453 dmg (or 9,079 with 2B 2C).  When 5A hits the opponent will usually be behind you, so use 7 to jump cancel instead of 9.  Omit the usual double jump from the air combo because hitstun proration without HC or EFC tends to let them tech out. j.214214E can be added to get seeds out, or j.236A+B for 10,053 dmg (9,679 dmg if you start with 2B 2C).  Keep in mind that unless you are playing against large characters like Cathy, Kira, Nazuna, and Eko, 236E will not pick up crouching opponents, so do a 41236C combo or something instead.  Against some characters such as Kira with unusual falling properties you may need to omit the second 5B 5C 236E in order to get the air combo.

Note: all damages were found using Love (except for the Plant combo) against Earth Akane.

[umgogo]

5B 5C (or 2B 2C) 41236C EFC 5A 5B 3B j.A j.B dj.A dj.B dj.C dj.421B - 13 hits 9,667 dmg (or 9,293 with 2B 2C).  EFC version of the above combo.

 

I usually do ~EFC, standing A-B-df+B, jumping B-C-B, double jump B-C, rdp+C, qcf+AB.

 

When you have Kunugi activated ("red sword", after d, d+A/B/C), you may have to change the first part to just ~hcf+C, EFC, df+B, air combo, since the Kagesuki (the powered-up hcf+A/B/C) travels farther than the normal version and standing A may whiff.

 

However, the extra range afforded by Kagesuki means that it will always connect where Uruma (non-powered-up hcf+A/B/C) may not, meaning you will never have to settle for just "B-C super." In short, power up whenever you can.

 

Plant: standing/crouching B-C, EFC, standing B-C, qcb+ABC or qcf+ABC

 

Kamui's far-reaching normals allow her to combo into Arcana Eclipse/Blaze, regaining a fair amount of health in the process.

[nekohime]

I usually do ~EFC, standing A-B-df+B, jumping B-C-B, double jump B-C, rdp+C, qcf+AB.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I usually stick to the same air combo in or out of EF so that I don't have to worry about remembering which one to do when.

 

When you have Kunugi activated ("red sword", after d, d+A/B/C), you may have to change the first part to just ~hcf+C, EFC, df+B, air combo, since the Kagesuki (the powered-up hcf+A/B/C) travels farther than the normal version and standing A may whiff.

Well yeah, if you have 22X up you don't have to worry about range, although personally I would rather just 6HC 3B > air combo after powered 41236X and save EF in case I need it shortly after (assuming it's available). Also, while I'm not very good at it myself yet, I believe that not comboing after powered 41236X is a good way to set up oki since you get an untechable knockdown with lots of frame advantage.

Afterthought: I read "~hcf+C, EFC, df+B" as "homing cancel forward+C, EFC, 3B". Did you actually mean 41236X, EFC, 3B? Cause that would make a lot more sense.

 

However, the extra range afforded by Kagesuki means that it will always connect where Uruma (non-powered-up hcf+A/B/C) may not, meaning you will never have to settle for just "B-C super." In short, power up whenever you can.

I wouldn't say you will never have to settle for BC Super. People aren't going to stand around and let you 22X whenever you want so you're either going to be trading healthy chunks of life doing 22C or creating opportunities to safely 22A. Either way eventually you're going to get hits with BC that are out of uruma range when you don't have 22X up. I'm just saying you shouldn't be ashamed to BC Super when the situation calls for it.

 

Plant: standing/crouching B-C, EFC, standing B-C, qcb+ABC or qcf+ABC

 

Kamui's far-reaching normals allow her to combo into Arcana Eclipse/Blaze, regaining a fair amount of health in the process.

I haven't really messed with Eclipse/Blaze much so I'll be trying this out too. Also wouldn't you need to dash or something after EFC for the second BC to hit, assuming you aren't starting from right next to them?

Speaking of Plant and 22X, I haven't tried it in LM yet but one thing I remember doing in vanilla was during opponent's blockstring with 22X up, 4GC j.421X (land) 2A 5B 5C 236E 5A > air combo. Got about 10k from 1 meter.

All around good stuff though, thanks for the input.

[umgogo]

Afterthought: I read "~hcf+C, EFC, df+B" as "homing cancel forward+C, EFC, 3B". Did you actually mean 41236X, EFC, 3B? Cause that would make a lot more sense.

 

I wouldn't say you will never have to settle for BC Super. People aren't going to stand around and let you 22X whenever you want so you're either going to be trading healthy chunks of life doing 22C or creating opportunities to safely 22A. Either way eventually you're going to get hits with BC that are out of uruma range when you don't have 22X up. I'm just saying you shouldn't be ashamed to BC Super when the situation calls for it.

 

I haven't really messed with Eclipse/Blaze much so I'll be trying this out too. Also wouldn't you need to dash or something after EFC for the second BC to hit, assuming you aren't starting from right next to them?

 

I. Yes, I meant Uruma, EFC, df+B (sorry, I just can't bring myself to use that ugly numerical notation, for any game ^_^).

 

II. What I meant was that you will never have to settle for B-C, super when you have Kunugi activated. You obviously won't have access to Kagesuki at all times, and you may even want to go for a reset with B-C super, okizeme TK rdp+A/B/C into df+B, air combo.

 

III. Yes, depending on the range you may have to dash. Looking through my old notes:

 

standing/crouching A-B, ABC, (dash), standing B-C, qcf+ABC

 

standing/crouching B-C, ABC, (dash), standing (B-)C, qcf+ABC

 

Also, many Arcana Blaze/Eclipse moves that are reasonably fast and can hit an airborne opponent will connect after ~hcf+A/B/C, EFC, standing A-B-C. Off the top of my head, it works with Wind (Blaze only?), Evil (Blaze only), Sacred, Ice (both?), Punishment (Eclipse only), Sin, Tyr and probably Dark (Eclipse only) and Tone (Blaze only).

 

Lastly, this works in Vanilla, at least:

 

(Evil Arcana, opponent moderately far from the corner)

 

…db+E, standing E, qcbx2+E, standing A-B, ABC, standing A-B-C, qcf+ABC

 

After the standing E, you teleport to the other side of the flying opponent. This, sans the standing A-B part, was my favourite combo in AH1 (where there were no Extend Forces).

[nekohime]

I. Yes, I meant Uruma, EFC, df+B (sorry, I just can't bring myself to use that ugly numerical notation, for any game ^_^).

No worries, while I personally find it easier to be clear using numeric notation, I'll agree that it's not exactly succinct.

 

After the standing E, you teleport to the other side of the flying opponent. This, sans the standing A-B part, was my favourite combo in AH1 (where there were no Extend Forces).

Ah yes, AH1. Back when there wasn't even an E button and people complained about getting an arcana special instead of a homing cancel, or vice versa. I still miss it sometimes.

[someAzNdude]

Oh snap, I made an account

What's up my fellow Kamui enthusiasts

[nekohime]

Oh snap, I made an account

What's up my fellow Kamui enthusiasts

Watching Kamui's metagame slide backwards a few years as I post my scrubby combos. I'm just hoping that by getting conversation going we'll get more good info from people better than me, and maybe even some stuff for the wiki.

Anywho, just tried using j.BCB dj.BC in the EFC combo so...

5B 5C 41236C EFC 5A 5B 3B j.B j.C j.B dj.B dj.C 421C - 14 hits 9,890 dmg (9,516 starting with 2B 2C).  421C seems to hit all 3 times pretty consistantly and does about 200 extra damage.  I still need to try it against the rest of the cast but seems worthwhile so far.

 

And does anyone have any good non arcana specific corner combos?  The best I can do right now without getting too much pushback is to leave out the double jump and only use 3B after canceling uruma, such as...

 

5B 5C 41236C EFC 3B j.A j.B j.C 421B - 9 hits 8694 dmg.  236A+B can be added.

 

Using j.B j.C j.B works too but seems a lot harder to hit without 5A 5B 3B first, which pushes me too far back.  Also 41236C EFC seems much more difficult in the corner than midscreen.  41236C 6HC 3B I can do all day long, so right now I guess it's a matter of efficiency vs stability.

[someAzNdude]

As Kamui you generally want to get knockdown into safe kunugi or oki as much as possible.

 

Unless you're going for the kill you should just stick to doing the uruma loop efc combo which allows for better positioning and oki.

 

And does anyone have any good non arcana specific corner combos?  The best I can do right now without getting too much pushback is to leave out the double jump and only use 3B after canceling uruma, such as...

 

Just do the standard uruma loop as it works on all characters and arcana (except earth) in and outside the corner, although you might have to add some delay on certain characters. 41236X EFC 5A 5B 41236A 5A 5B 41236A into ender of choice (eg. Arcana Eclipse, 5B/5C otg 22A, extra rep of uruma)

 

For combos outside of ef (when you don't have access to it), my go to bnb is 41236X 6D 3B 214B~C 3B jA jB djA djB djC j421C and if you want to spend the meter you can add j236AB or cancel into arcana super for oki. The 3B 214B~C will not work on some characters (Scharl, Lieselotte) and will need to be adjusted to 3B 214B 5A.

 

For that same non efc bnb you can omit the air combo and just go for uruma ender for better oki. 41236X 6D 5A 5B 214B~C 5A 5B 41236A/B here you can either do 22C 5A otg into immediate mixup (dash up tk seizan or kagetsuki) or, if you don't want to spend that huge chunk of health, 5B/5C otg 22A for safe kunugi setup.

 

As much as I hate to say it, as a long time Kamui user, if you're using any arcana that isn't Earth BC SUPER may not be the most optimal confirm you can do if you hit at max range assuming that you have extend force ready. Off max ranged 5B 5C you can EFC 66 5B 5C 41236C into Arcana Eclipse, this is a more optimal confirm for 5BC as it gets you more damage and better positioning just like any other uruma ender.

[nekohime]

~good stuff~

 

Now that's the sort of thing I'm looking for, thanks!  When you say 5B/5C otg 22A, does 5B/5C hit otg or is there a crouching attack before 22A?

 

Edit: After a couple hours in training mode I now remember why I never learned the Uruma loop.  So right now when I do ~41236X EFC 5A 5B 41236A the second 41236 almost always whiffs, either not getting close enough or going right under them.  On the rare occasions I do hit the second 41236, the next 5A 5B 41236A hits pretty easily.  I tried some variations with no success.  2A 5B 41236A still whiffs, and while leaving out A and just doing 5B 41236A hits consistently, they hit the ground too soon to follow up.  Got any tips or is this one of those things you just have to grind out?

 

Second Edit:  I don't know if this is already known or not (it's news to me anyway) but I just noticed that all versions of Uruma whiff against certain standing characters if you do it from right next to them.  I first saw it against Akane, and tested against Dorothy too because she has a thin hitbox.

[someAzNdude]

Now that's the sort of thing I'm looking for, thanks!  When you say 5B/5C otg 22A, does 5B/5C hit otg or is there a crouching attack before 22A?

 

Edit: After a couple hours in training mode I now remember why I never learned the Uruma loop.  So right now when I do ~41236X EFC 5A 5B 41236A the second 41236 almost always whiffs, either not getting close enough or going right under them.  On the rare occasions I do hit the second 41236, the next 5A 5B 41236A hits pretty easily.  I tried some variations with no success.  2A 5B 41236A still whiffs, and while leaving out A and just doing 5B 41236A hits consistently, they hit the ground too soon to follow up.  Got any tips or is this one of those things you just have to grind out?

 

Second Edit:  I don't know if this is already known or not (it's news to me anyway) but I just noticed that all versions of Uruma whiff against certain standing characters if you do it from right next to them.  I first saw it against Akane, and tested against Dorothy too because she has a thin hitbox.

 

When I say 5B/5C otg I meant 5B or 5C on otg hit which is done after the last rep of the uruma loop when the opponent bounces on the ground from the knockdown.

 

As I stated before, on some characters you'll need to add some delay to the efc to properly connect. 41236X (slight delay) EFC 5A 5B or 41236X EFC delay 5A 5B. After the initial delay the rest should connect normally.

 

And yes Uruma will whiff on certain characters point blank but that doesn't even matter 99.9% of the time lol

[nekohime]

As I stated before, on some characters you'll need to add some delay to the efc to properly connect. 41236X (slight delay) EFC 5A 5B or 41236X EFC delay 5A 5B. After the initial delay the rest should connect normally.

 

That helps quite a bit, thanks again.

[Bill307]

That helps quite a bit, thanks again.

 

You might find this alternative easier:

 

5B 2C 41236C EFC 5A 3B j.B > j.E j.C land 5B 41236B

 

(short delay between j.B and j.E)

 

It does more damage than 2 reps of the Uruma loop but less damage than 3 reps. It also works on Fiona whereas I can't seem to get the Uruma loop to work on her at all.

 

By the way, in LM, 5B 2C 41236C connects at longer ranges than 5B 5C 41236C. (I think it was the other way around in AH3 vanilla)

[someAzNdude]

You might find this alternative easier:

 

5B 2C 41236C EFC 5A 3B j.B > j.E j.C land 5B 41236B

 

(short delay between j.B and j.E)

 

It does more damage than 2 reps of the Uruma loop but less damage than 3 reps. It also works on Fiona whereas I can't seem to get the Uruma loop to work on her at all.

 

By the way, in LM, 5B 2C 41236C connects at longer ranges than 5B 5C 41236C. (I think it was the other way around in AH3 vanilla)

 

Uruma loop works on fiona but it is really strict with the delays

 

Kamui's old efc bnb is actually harder do in love max because of the new jC changes (less hit stun), so timing is more strict between the jC and 5B, even more so if you're starting off the combo with a jump in. Another thing about this efc combo is that I can't connect with Gier AE after the uruma ender for w/e reason (gier just leapfrogs over the opponent and whiffs), I think it is because the combo leaves the opponent a bit too close to the ground, but that's if you main Gier Kamui like I do...

[Kaori Manabe]

here are my bnbs

they bring decent success

 

Meterless

B > C

 

Meter

B > C > Super

[madworlder]

What's the deal with Kamui's clash game? A friend of mine is having serious trouble with it. I suspect that she's supposed to play clash super defensive, but he says he often finds himself without jumps in the air.