Newbie Chie here - Some questions

[Whimsikal]

Hey there,

 

so as the title says, I am a novice in both: P4A in general and playing as Chie. I would like to have some more experienced players help me out

 

1. When Kanji does his grab, is there ANY way I can break his long and damaging combo?

2. Is there a follow up to Chies grab?

3. What is the very most essential and useful combo I should focus on? I am always doing: Something -> 236A -> 236A -> 236C

4. What am I supposed to do, when Labrys charges up her axe?

5. What am I supposed to do, when Akihiko is flashing and standing still? I usually do nothing and nothing happens, but I guess there is a better option.

 

Thanks in advance!

[MegaBlues]

Well, for starters, welcome to P4A and Chie!

 

1. No! Burst is the only way to escape a combo in this game, short of the opponent dropping a combo.

2. On counter-hit, you can follow up with a microdash 2A 5C 236B 236B 236C (Might be D).

3. With Chie, you want to focus on keeping the opponent in Okizeme. But a -very- useful combo is (CH) 5B 2D (dash) 5B 5C j.5C j.BB j.8D (land) 236B 236B > (for no SP) 236C / (in the corner) 214D 236236D / (midscreen) 214C 236236D.

4. If you mean her unblockable super, either get behind her, or use your DP (Which can be done very easily on reaction).

5. You'll have to be more specific?

[shoryusatsu999]

5. What am I supposed to do, when Akihiko is flashing and standing still? I usually do nothing and nothing happens, but I guess there is a better option.

 

Thanks in advance!

You mean when Aki is using his counter? I'm not a Chie player by any means, but here are some tips: He can't ever counter throws, and if he's not using the SB version, he can't counter lows either, so use 2A or sweep.

[MegaBlues]

Oh, if you meant his parry, you could do a 2A combo into okizeme, or wait for a 5B CH combo. Or even Power Charge into 236236D.

[Whimsikal]

Well, for starters, welcome to P4A and Chie!

1. No! Burst is the only way to escape a combo in this game, short of the opponent dropping a combo.

2. On counter-hit, you can follow up with a microdash 2A 5C 236B 236B 236C (Might be D).

3. With Chie, you want to focus on keeping the opponent in Okizeme. But a -very- useful combo is (CH) 5B 2D (dash) 5B 5C j.5C j.BB j.8D (land) 236B 236B > (for no SP) 236C / (in the corner) 214D 236236D / (midscreen) 214C 236236D.

4. If you mean her unblockable super, either get behind her, or use your DP (Which can be done very easily on reaction).

5. You'll have to be more specific?

Thanks a lot I will be reporting back with new questions :D So no need to close this thread

You mean when Aki is using his counter? I'm not a Chie player by any means, but here are some tips: He can't ever counter throws, and if he's not using the SB version, he can't counter lows either, so use 2A or sweep.

Thanks to you aswell

[Whimsikal]

Hey, its me again

I have been practicing this basic combo today: 5B -> 5C -> 2B -> 236A -> 236A -> 236C for 2,7k damage. It works on most characters, but apparently I am not able to connect the 2B on Naoto. Is the timing just stricter or is it impossibru?

[MegaBlues]

That's not a very practical combo to use, especially midscreen. Try using 5B 2B 236A 236A 236C instead. Or, if you're in the corner, 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B (Yes, again), 2AB. Okizeme is a big part of Chie's game too, so scoring a knockdown is much more favorable than a few more points of damage. So you want to sweep instead of use Dragon Kick.

[Whimsikal]

I see, thanks!

Does she have any other Oki tools besides 5DD/2DD Tomoe?

[MegaBlues]

She has her j.D series, her 5A is +1 on block (which is an advanced pressure tool, as it requires you to dash, then attack while holding back), and, personally, I've had good luck with throwing in All-Out Attacks on the enemy's wakeup, too.

 

Her 214CD also has guard point a little bit after startup, so if you throw it out when the enemy is in the middle of teching, you might catch them for a good Counter Hit combo.

[Whimsikal]

Thanks again Still questions left though :D

 

 

She has her j.D series

For some reason I am not able to use this properly. The first few hits are above the enemy and then he blocks :/

 

 

her 5A is +1 on block (which is an advanced pressure tool, as it requires you to dash, then attack while holding back)

Could you explain this in a little more detail? To me it sounded like 5A -> dash -> attack while holding back. But I don't really understand how this is supposed to work.

 

 

I've had good luck with throwing in All-Out Attacks on the enemy's wakeup

Speaking of All-Out, which follow up combo do you use? I always try: All-Out -> j.D -> dash -> j.B -> j.C -> ... but I am not able to connect the j.C. I think I got this combo from the Chie-combo-thread, so it SHOULD work :/

[Balguna]

Could you explain this in a little more detail? To me it sounded like 5A -> dash -> attack while holding back. But I don't really understand how this is supposed to work.

 

Speaking of All-Out, which follow up combo do you use? I always try: All-Out -> j.D -> dash -> j.B -> j.C -> ... but I am not able to connect the j.C. I think I got this combo from the Chie-combo-thread, so it SHOULD work :/

 

Doing 4A instead of 5A will allow Chie to essentially block DP attempts during her pressure, as she'll be holding backwards. Given her +1 on block, there aren't many non-DP skills that can counter a blocked 5A.

 

I don't know of an optimal Chie combo myself, but are you getting the Fatal Counter from all 15 hits? It might be necessary to get the whole chain to link.

[MegaBlues]

For her J.D, series as pressure on wake-up, you'll want to use j.2D as soon as you're in the air, then back-dash to bait DP attempts, or air-turn and do a mix-up with either j.5A, or 2A when you land. If you're fast enough, you can pull off a 5A microdash 2A, but it can be very difficult, even when not offline. And if you miss, you'll drop the combo.

 

Or, you can dash over them. The last hit of the J.2D will hit them if they don't block in the new direction, after which you have plenty of time to knock them down and restart your Okizeme.

 

For AoA's, I find her J.D combo to be a little too hard to do, so I prefer a simple C end  j.BB j.C .BB j.C 236D combo. And, in the corner, D end 5B 5C 2D j.8D and then AoA again to force a hard knockdown, or 236B 236B 214D 236236D. Or, if you want to save your SP, 236B 236B 236C.

 

Also, 5A pressure is a good way to catch an opponent with a tick throw. But you have to watch out for CHing with that 5A, missing your throw, then getting punished.

[Colpevole]

Just going to point out that, except against Teddie (and it's done differently), there's never a reason to use her jD series as oki instead of 5DD. Ever.

[MegaBlues]

Just going to point out that, except against Teddie (and it's done differently), there's never a reason to use her jD series as oki instead of 5DD. Ever.

 

I do it, usually, to bait DPs, and get a nice 5B CH combo. And crossing over them if they don't know how to block.

 

Oh, also, another random tip to Whimsikal. 5AAA can be useful to do, even on block, as you can jump cancel the 5AAA, air turn, and backdash behind them to surprise them. Especially if they're in the corner, if you're feeling risky.

 

I did this against an Akihiko, once, while he was in the corner. The backdash went through his DP, and he ate a 5B CH combo. But you have to be pretty dexterous to pull it off.

[Colpevole]

I do it, usually, to bait DPs, and get a nice 5B CH combo. And crossing over them if they don't know how to block.

 

Oh, also, another random tip to Whimsikal. 5AAA can be useful to do, even on block, as you can jump cancel the 5AAA, air turn, and backdash behind them to surprise them. Especially if they're in the corner, if you're feeling risky.

 

I did this against an Akihiko, once, while he was in the corner. The backdash went through his DP, and he ate a 5B CH combo. But you have to be pretty dexterous to pull it off.

Well, the reason you wouldn't do it is because they can delay tech out of it, 2B out of it, and the mixup is worse. Also, 5DD can bait DPs just fine. 5DD is just the overall better option in 99% of spots.

 

5AAA isn't bad on block (only -3 and moves Chie back), but the 5AAA > cross up is a bit obvious and somewhat gimmicky. Not saying it's not an option, but it should only be used sparingly. Anyone who knows the matchup is going to either roll out or air throw you for it.

[Whimsikal]

 

 

Doing 4A instead of 5A will allow Chie to essentially block DP attempts during her pressure, as she'll be holding backwards. Given her +1 on block, there aren't many non-DP skills that can counter a blocked 5A.

Uhm, I think I am confused by the term "DP". This is means anti-air, right? But these moves usually have a longer startup than others (at least thats what I thought), so why is a DP able to punish one of the fastest moves?

 

 

 

I don't know of an optimal Chie combo myself, but are you getting the Fatal Counter from all 15 hits? It might be necessary to get the whole chain to link.

Yeah, I mash A+B until I get to 15 and smack the opponent up in the air with C.

 

 

 

 

For AoA's, I find her J.D combo to be a little too hard to do, so I prefer a simple C end  j.BB j.C .BB j.C 236D combo. 

So what does ".BB" mean? Did you just forget the j in front of it, or is this some specific piece of notation? Also: Do I have to do any dashes inbetween the BBs and Cs?

 

 

 

 

And, in the corner, D end 5B 5C 2D j.8D and then AoA again to force a hard knockdown, or 236B 236B 214D 236236D. Or, if you want to save your SP, 236B 236B 236C.

Do you have any advice on how to physically perform 214D 236236D on a fighing stick? I have tried this for over an hour, without success.

 

 

Also, 5A pressure is a good way to catch an opponent with a tick throw. But you have to watch out for CHing with that 5A, missing your throw, then getting punished.

 

So 5A and then checking the result:

- Block: Do a throw

- Normal hit confirm: Combo

- Counter hit confirm: Combo even more

Right? Also: Why do you call it a "thick" throw? Is there anything I can do to increase the damage of a throw? Because apparently there is no follow up or anything, so I never thought of throwing as a tool for dealing good damage.

 

 

 

 

Well, the reason you wouldn't do it is because they can delay tech out of it, 2B out of it, and the mixup is worse. Also, 5DD can bait DPs just fine. 5DD is just the overall better option in 99% of spots.

How do you exactly pull off your 5DD? Against the CPU the following way worked very well: Combo -> End with Sweep -> Mash D immediately -> Repeat. They always got hit. Then I tried the same thing with a human player I had some matches with yesterday and it only worked once. After that he always blocked Tomoe and my jump in :/

 

 

So these are a lot of questions again :D Thanks for all the answers so far

[D.R.F.]

Dp is a shoryuken. Think ryu and Ken's reversal uppercut. Meant to get you outta crappy situations. Narukami and mitsurus BD can be considered as Dragon punches

[Myoro]

1.Uhm, I think I am confused by the term "DP". This is means anti-air, right? But these moves usually have a longer startup than others (at least thats what I thought), so why is a DP able to punish one of the fastest moves?

 

2.So what does ".BB" mean? Did you just forget the j in front of it, or is this some specific piece of notation? Also: Do I have to do any dashes inbetween the BBs and Cs?

 

3.So 5A and then checking the result:

- Block: Do a throw

- Normal hit confirm: Combo

- Counter hit confirm: Combo even more

Right? Also: Why do you call it a "thick" throw? Is there anything I can do to increase the damage of a throw? Because apparently there is no follow up or anything, so I never thought of throwing as a tool for dealing good damage.

 

So these are a lot of questions again :D Thanks for all the answers so far

 

I numbered what I could answer.

 

1. DP refers to "Dragon Punch" motions, which is 623+button. The motion itself doesn't exist in persona games but what it's typically associated with does.

 

In fighting games where DP motions exist, the moves that use DP motions are commonly invincible on start-up until the end of the move's active frames. This means that the move is invincible from the very second you press the button to execute it. DPs are also called "reversals" because they are commonly used to throw the opponent off of them. Say you do a neutral recovery (they press a button after they are knocked down without pressing a direction) you are invincible until they touch the ground. Say someone tries to attack you while you are recovering this way. Even though you are inside the opponent's move's hitbox and active frames you can then use a DP right as you touch the ground and continue your invincibility into your DP's invincability and throw the opponent off of you. An example of DPs in Persona 4 Arena would all furious action moves (like that move where Yu rises up in the air and his sword is electricuted, or Kanji's move where he electrocutes himself.) and some 50% gauge skills also qualify too.

 

2. "j" stands for "jumping" so j.C would be your jumping C normal. j.BB would be you in the air tapping the "B" button twice.

 

3. A Tick Throw is when you go up to the opponent, jab them, and then throw them. If it works right the opponent will mistake the jab for a throw attempt, then try to throw break it (but they end up doing nothing because they're in blockstun), then you throw them after the jab and they can't break it because they tried to reject the throw too early. You can't do a tick throw on counter hit 5A because they will be in hitstun and you cant throw while the opponent is getting hit by a move. On a normal hit 5A the tick throw will still work because they'll recover in time to be thrown.

[Whimsikal]

 

1. DP refers to "Dragon Punch" motions, which is 623+button. The motion itself doesn't exist in persona games but what it's typically associated with does.

 

In fighting games where DP motions exist, the moves that use DP motions are commonly invincible on start-up until the end of the move's active frames. This means that the move is invincible from the very second you press the button to execute it. DPs are also called "reversals" because they are commonly used to throw the opponent off of them. Say you do a neutral recovery (they press a button after they are knocked down without pressing a direction) you are invincible until they touch the ground. Say someone tries to attack you while you are recovering this way. Even though you are inside the opponent's move's hitbox and active frames you can then use a DP right as you touch the ground and continue your invincibility into your DP's invincability and throw the opponent off of you. An example of DPs in Persona 4 Arena would all furious action moves (like that move where Yu rises up in the air and his sword is electricuted, or Kanji's move where he electrocutes himself.) and some 50% gauge skills also qualify too.

Thanks a lot for this indepth information! So Chies 236C is no DP, but A+B is?

 

 

 

 

2. "j" stands for "jumping" so j.C would be your jumping C normal. j.BB would be you in the air tapping the "B" button twice.

I think you got my question wrong. I know the notation elements "j." and "BB", but Megablues used ".BB" (dot B B) and I was unsure wether he was missing the j in front of the dot or if the dot was not supposed to be there OR if it was some notational element I still dont know.

 

 

 

3. A Tick Throw is when you go up to the opponent, jab them, and then throw them. If it works right the opponent will mistake the jab for a throw attempt, then try to throw break it (but they end up doing nothing because they're in blockstun), then you throw them after the jab and they can't break it because they tried to reject the throw too early. You can't do a tick throw on counter hit 5A because they will be in hitstun and you cant throw while the opponent is getting hit by a move. On a normal hit 5A the tick throw will still work because they'll recover in time to be thrown.

 

Thanks again for this explanation! But what is the advantage of throwing after successfully connecting a 5A? Wouldnt a normal combo be a way better option?

[Myoro]

Thanks a lot for this indepth information! So Chies 236C is no DP, but A+B is?

 

 

I think you got my question wrong. I know the notation elements "j." and "BB", but Megablues used ".BB" (dot B B) and I was unsure wether he was missing the j in front of the dot or if the dot was not supposed to be there OR if it was some notational element I still dont know.

 

 

Thanks again for this explanation! But what is the advantage of throwing after successfully connecting a 5A? Wouldnt a normal combo be a way better option?

 

A+B is all out attack right? that thing where you overhead the opponent then bum rush them? That's no DP, although it has guardpoint from 15th to 23rd frames.

 

B+D is the universal DP option. Chie's is that Mirror that once hit will be followed up by kicks.

 

Here's her frame data: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Chie_Frame_Data_(P4Arena)

 

Look in the Invuln column. Besides power charge anything that has invincibility on frames 1~whatever is a DP.

 

 

I misunderstood your second question, but yeah he prolly left out the j

 

 

Well when you're going for a tick throw, you generally can't react to a jab actually hitting the opponent, so you'll do the tick throw anyway. If you can react and change a tick throw to a combo in the time a single jab can give you, then more power to ya.

[MegaBlues]

 

 

So what does ".BB" mean? Did you just forget the j in front of it, or is this some specific piece of notation? Also: Do I have to do any dashes inbetween the BBs and Cs?

Yes, I meant j.BB! It's good that you're learning enough to catch that mistake. And, no. All you need to do is double-jump. Fatal C end j.BB j.C (double jump) j.BB j.C 236D.

 

 

 

Do you have any advice on how to physically perform 214D 236236D on a fighing stick? I have tried this for over an hour, without success.

Input the 236236 while 214D is charging up! This can also be used to super-cancel 214C into 236236D mid-screen, though, obviously, that takes more skill. But it's good for finishing people off.

 

How do you exactly pull off your 5DD? Against the CPU the following way worked very well: Combo -> End with Sweep -> Mash D immediately -> Repeat. They always got hit. Then I tried the same thing with a human player I had some matches with yesterday and it only worked once. After that he always blocked Tomoe and my jump in :/

 

 

You need to mix up your use of 2DD and 5DD, and your jump-in okizeme. There are a -lot- of options you can use to keep the opponent unsure about what you're going to do. Also, when I use IAD here, I mean 'Instant Air Dash', which is a technique used to go from standing to air dashing rather quickly.

 

(IAD) j.BB j.A AoA (four hits to block high)

(IAD) j.BB j.A 2A (Three high, one low)

(IAD) j. BB 2A (Two high, one low)

(IAD) (Delay) J.B 2A (One high, one low)

(IAD) 2A (Empty jump)

(Wait, Dash) 2A (Catches people expecting air pressure)

(Wait, Dash) AoA (Catches people expecting the above)

(Back jump, air turn, air backdash) j.A (Comes out quickly, ambiguous with the following)

(Back jump, air turn, air backdash) 2A (Comes out quickly, ambiguous with the previous)

 

Though, you -always- block for a moment when the opponent rises, as they might try to DP. Usually, they hit Tomoe first, which gives them enough hitstop to let you block.

 

And, lastly, this technique is rather advanced, but literally impossible to react to on block. You can:

(IAD) j.BB j.A j.236AB (Skillboost Rampage), but when you hit the ground at just the right time, the attack instantly cancels, but the game still considers you to have done Rampage. So you can follow up with 236B on the ground to hit them with Skull Cracker.

 

Colpevole can probably explain this better than I can.

[Whimsikal]

 

 

A+B is all out attack right? that thing where you overhead the opponent then bum rush them? That's no DP, although it has guardpoint from 15th to 23rd frames.

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

 

 

 

B+D is the universal DP option. Chie's is that Mirror that once hit will be followed up by kicks.

The frame data says "Startup: 7, Active: 3,10" What exactly does this mean for the counter? Usually the startup the the period in which the move is visible but does not have a hitbox and active is the part where it does have a hitbox, right? But what about this one? Does that mean "It does nothing during the first 7 frames, then when you get hit in the next 3 frames it activates for a duration of 10 frames"?

 

 

 

 

Well when you're going for a tick throw, you generally can't react to a jab actually hitting the opponent, so you'll do the tick throw anyway. If you can react and change a tick throw to a combo in the time a single jab can give you, then more power to ya.

I see, thanks!

 

 

 

 

Input the 236236 while 214D is charging up! This can also be used to super-cancel 214C into 236236D mid-screen, though, obviously, that takes more skill. But it's good for finishing people off.

So I can already input the next command during the startup?

 

 

 

 

You need to mix up your use of 2DD and 5DD, and your jump-in okizeme. There are a -lot- of options you can use to keep the opponent unsure about what you're going to do. Also, when I use IAD here, I mean 'Instant Air Dash', which is a technique used to go from standing to air dashing rather quickly.

Thanks for the list of oki options! IAD is the thing which goes "diagonal jump forward and then quickly press forward once", right? But what is an air-turn? diagonal jump backwards and then airdash forwards?

 

 

 

 

Though, you -always- block for a moment when the opponent rises, as they might try to DP. Usually, they hit Tomoe first, which gives them enough hitstop to let you block.

But how am I supposed to block when I already started my oki?

 

 

 

Thanks for the answers again

[Myoro]

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

 

The frame data says "Startup: 7, Active: 3,10" What exactly does this mean for the counter? Usually the startup the the period in which the move is visible but does not have a hitbox and active is the part where it does have a hitbox, right? But what about this one? Does that mean "It does nothing during the first 7 frames, then when you get hit in the next 3 frames it activates for a duration of 10 frames"?

 

 

I see, thanks!

 

 

So I can already input the next command during the startup?

 

 

Thanks for the list of oki options! IAD is the thing which goes "diagonal jump forward and then quickly press forward once", right? But what is an air-turn? diagonal jump backwards and then airdash forwards?

 

 

But how am I supposed to block when I already started my oki?

 

 

 

Thanks for the answers again

 

Well the mirror thing is the "Catch" part of it. "Catch" moves only act after they come into contact with another move, then their "Attack" part happens. It does nothing for 7 frames, but is invincible all the while then does an attack for 3 frames then one for 10 frames.

[Whimsikal]

I see, but the incoming attack has to connect within the first 7 frames (aka startup), right?

 

Whoopsie, looked at the frame data again and NOW I get, what you were saying! So I got 21 fames to catch the attack?

[Justice7541]

Doesn't Chie's sweep 5D lose to 5f jabs? It's not quite as good as Yu's in that respect.