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[CP 1.1] Iron Tager Gameplay Discussion

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Was it established that GCODs had any vulnerable recovery? I feel like they wouldn't because the flash would make it too easy for people to do stuff about them. If there is no vulnerable recovery the punish suggested by TagerTime isn't a punish. (though it is really cool conceptually)

 

(Keep in mind: Joketest 1): No. you can literally just GCOD > 720 and it's 22 frames of 100% invulnerability through blockstun into OD 720 damage. It's ridiculously broken and there's no way they're keeping it, almost every button bigger than 5A is punishable with this change if you time it so they whiff their 5B/2B/5C/Whatever follow-up. You can punish extremely plus moves like Jin's 2D, any character's CA, Hakumen 3C, etc. 

 

 

every time i sub a character vs hakumen stuff happens that blows my mind and never happens ever when i play hakumen

 

haku IAD j2Cs, i tager 2C, it clashes and i lose to 3C

 

apparently AC doesnt do anything anymore, so what do you do to deal with that, backdash 360?

 

2C works, honestly. I've almost never seen it clash. If it does, you can always double tap 2C, or do 5C > 5B? j.2C > 3C from Hakumen on clash sounds super not real. Like I said though I've almost always had it beat it. When in doubt you can always just jump forwards and block. A lot of times Tager's best anti-air is to block

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(Keep in mind: Joketest 1): No. you can literally just GCOD > 720 and it's 22 frames of 100% invulnerability through blockstun into OD 720 damage. It's ridiculously broken and there's no way they're keeping it, almost every button bigger than 5A is punishable with this change if you time it so they whiff their 5B/2B/5C/Whatever follow-up. You can punish extremely plus moves like Jin's 2D, any character's CA, Hakumen 3C, etc. 

I understand how this comes about out of context, but the punish I mentioned that TagerTime suggested was not the super obvious 720 out of GCOD that everyone immediately thought of when the GCOD was revealed.Tagertime was suggesting that you special cancel into Voltech charge into 720, which if memory serves me right isn't possible, but for the sake of analysis even if you could iunno RC 720 when you see the flash, if there is no vulnerable recovery then you still can't punish a GCOD with a 720. You would have to 720 late and hope what they did was not airborn or invincible.

 

The relevant concern being Tager has many moves that are Horrible on whiff and he could realistically be super disadvantaged by the existence of the new mechanic in some match ups. Especially post any balance changes they make to it. I think that is interesting.

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^Couldn't someone right now just as easily just naked OD through Tager's moves and whiff punish?

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^Couldn't someone right now just as easily just naked OD through Tager's moves and whiff punish?

 

There's also the question of whether or not, in the joketest's current configuration, you can RC after someone GCOD's your hit. I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to. That'd let people RC jump over 720 and such but it'd also make Tager RC>360A a really strong deterrent to trying to GCOD reverse him.

 

I still hold the opinion that GCOD is just stupid in it's current state and will most probably be either heavily tweaked or removed entirely.

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Tagertime was suggesting that you special cancel into Voltech charge into 720, which if memory serves me right isn't possible,

Every time i said only depending oh how much easier they made it to do because the loke test notes says they made it easier, since as it is now its pretty worthless.

 

 

There's also the question of whether or not, in the joketest's current configuration, you can RC after someone GCOD's your hit. I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to. That'd let people RC jump over 720 and such but it'd also make Tager RC>360A a really strong deterrent to trying to GCOD reverse him.

 

I still hold the opinion that GCOD is just stupid in it's current state and will most probably be either heavily tweaked or removed entirely.

 

They are not going to remove it but they already stated its going to be adjusted based on this loke test (google translated)

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201408/07058595.html

 

Kato "You can activate the overdrive cancel the guard" It's the biggest this time,  And I wanted to use the overdrive a little more, such as interruption of cooperation, but it was not used very much because there is a risk of break burst go off by accident. It is a new system to solve this problem, it is the point.

 

Kato Location Test version, has become Triggering the same time as the overdrive normal. Because I want to adjust to see the reaction of Location Test around here

 

If you havnt seen it before here is 2 examples of how it works currently:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePSraLuuoEQ&list=UUtPyU9cJgvvgH03PQKgaucA&t=1m1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2MfZBjNpI0&t=1m3s

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There's also the question of whether or not, in the joketest's current configuration, you can RC after someone GCOD's your hit. I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to. That'd let people RC jump over 720 and such but it'd also make Tager RC>360A a really strong deterrent to trying to GCOD reverse him.

The danger is if they wait for you to gatling to the next move and gcOD during its startup.

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Instead of calling it GCOD, it looks like it'll just be called ODR, Overdrive Raid.

 

I'm still a bit confused, but who officially stated that this technique into 720 is 100% guaranteed to work? I'm sorry, I do not follow all the posts in here and only come here to dump info from what I find so if somebody could help me, I'd be much appreciative!

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Instead of calling it GCOD, it looks like it'll just be called ODR, Overdrive Raid.

 

I'm still a bit confused, but who officially stated that this technique into 720 is 100% guaranteed to work? I'm sorry, I do not follow all the posts in here and only come here to dump info from what I find so if somebody could help me, I'd be much appreciative!

 

 

Translated by argent zero

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7244-cp-news-gameplay-discussion/?p=833430

 

Guard Cancel OD = Tager’s ultimate dual-edged blade. Opponents 2B based attacks easy picking for Tager’s Guard Cancel OD, but when the opponent OD cancel from Tager’s 3C, it makes you want to cry.

 

 

Also many tweets about CP2 Tager and ODR>720 here that may contain more information if someone could translate

https://twitter.com/schna5

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Thanks.

 

I read some of the stuff on his Twitter, though a lot of it was just his speculations on what he heard from other people before he went to Akiba personally to see for himself. (Reading his Twitter from like Aug 5 to whenever loketests were over was like reading a little story unfold.) Apparently the inputs for doing ODR are tight, as someone here mentioned earlier.

 

I don't know if it was mentioned, but he states that 6B is not jump cancelable (implied: on hit) anymore.

 

Sorry, what I meant by my question previously was: [this technique into 720 is 100% guaranteed to work] and safe. Something along the lines of what Ctrlalt asked:

 

 can RC after someone GCOD's your hit. I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to.

 

Originally, I didn't think about RC at first, but I first thought about the opponent ODCing. I imagined it being reacted in a sequence where Tager is blocking then ODR while buffering/churning the 720 motion, opponent does ODC, Tager player instinctively pushes C, and then the opponent inputs their super during that super flash. Something along those lines. I kind of wish I was there again to test it, but I kind of don't wish to wait 3 hours in line again.

 

I'm just skeptical about ODR720. I personally think it might be receiving too much attention over other issues at the moment.

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Thanks.

 

I read some of the stuff on his Twitter, though a lot of it was just his speculations on what he heard from other people before he went to Akiba personally to see for himself. (Reading his Twitter from like Aug 5 to whenever loketests were over was like reading a little story unfold.) Apparently the inputs for doing ODR are tight, as someone here mentioned earlier.

 

I don't know if it was mentioned, but he states that 6B is not jump cancelable (implied: on hit) anymore.

 

Sorry, what I meant by my question previously was: [this technique into 720 is 100% guaranteed to work] and safe. Something along the lines of what Ctrlalt asked:

 

 

Originally, I didn't think about RC at first, but I first thought about the opponent ODCing. I imagined it being reacted in a sequence where Tager is blocking then ODR while buffering/churning the 720 motion, opponent does ODC, Tager player instinctively pushes C, and then the opponent inputs their super during that super flash. Something along those lines. I kind of wish I was there again to test it, but I kind of don't wish to wait 3 hours in line again.

 

I'm just skeptical about ODR720. I personally think it might be receiving too much attention over other issues at the moment.

 

Thanks for checking the twitter and yes 6B no longer jump cancelable on hit is new information that was not previously reported.

 

The only thing i could find that would have any other info about ODR>720 is post 755 to 1000 of the jbbs which covers all of the info they found during the loctest.

http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1400050058/755-854

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Am I a bad person for training the opponent to jump so I can air 360 them? That's preeeeetty much my entire gameplan. If we have an air 360, I say use it.

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If you are in blockstun when you press burst, instead of a burst you will get the guard cancelling overdrive. Pretty self explanitory; canceling your guarding stance to do overdrive.

Currently, pressing burst in blockstun or getting hit will result on an actual burst. Assuming the devs tweak gcod, the loss of block stun burst can be seen as a situational nerf.

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Ok, so let me get this straight:  Now you have to be in hitstun to execute a Burst.  Blockstun, neutral, or attack cancels will give you an Overdrive.

 

If this is the case, does a Guard Cancel OD count the same as a traditional OD Cancel?  i.e. half as much time as one executed at neutral.

 

And also, that seems like it's WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too powerful of a tool.  So basically everyone in the roster now gets a free reversal OD Distortion whenever they want.  And how quickly do these come out?  Is it also going to give Noel and Hakumen free Astrals?

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Ok, so let me get this straight:  Now you have to be in hitstun to execute a Burst.  Blockstun, neutral, or attack cancels will give you an Overdrive.

 

If this is the case, does a Guard Cancel OD count the same as a traditional OD Cancel?  i.e. half as much time as one executed at neutral.

 

And also, that seems like it's WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too powerful of a tool.  So basically everyone in the roster now gets a free reversal OD Distortion whenever they want.  And how quickly do these come out?  Is it also going to give Noel and Hakumen free Astrals?

 

 

You should have read my post above on this page and watched the videos i linked.

Kato Location Test version, has become Triggering the same time as the overdrive normal. Because I want to adjust to see the reaction of Location Test around here

 

If you havnt seen it before here is 2 examples of how it works currently:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePSraLuuoEQ&list=UUtPyU9cJgvvgH03PQKgaucA&t=1m1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2MfZBjNpI0&t=1m3s

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Am I a bad person for training the opponent to jump so I can air 360 them? That's preeeeetty much my entire gameplan. If we have an air 360, I say use it.

 

As somebody who used to love to do this (it was also literally my entire strategy) then was told it's a terrible idea; it's a terrible idea.

 

It's unneccesarily high risk when there are better, safer options for when you believe they're going to jump.

 

EDIT: To elaborate...just hit them. Really. 5A or something, I dunno. If you guess air buster and miss, you are putting up a giant flashing sign that says "THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO DO THAT BIG IMPRACTICAL PUNISH COMBO YOU LEARNED IN TRAINING MODE". I learned this the hard way. You will eat so much shit for that.

Edited by Hawkk

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People are still looking at this in a weird way. The intention of someone who is GCODing should be to make one of your moves whiff. TagerTime's speculated punish, doesn't work when you whiff something even if the changes he is speculating on occur. And yes. You can be baited and you can activated at a stupid time much like a burst. The major difference being you go from a mix up situation to a mix up situation instead of from being in a combo to being in a combo like with a burst.

 

No it is not free (and will likely be less free in the final version). Bursts are good, not having one is a cost.

 

And yes you can Raw OD to make some move whiff and punish currently and I've seen it happen. It is just a lot harder to do that up close because you might burst. Tager doesn't really have much in terms of safe block strings and being able to start the OD in block stun just increases the places where a punish is possible as well as the amount of damage Tager would recieve since you can start earlier can get more frame advantage on the whiff for a nastier punish.

 

Similarly if you make a move whiff with GCOD, 720 being super fast will Very frequently be inescapable at that point. I thought it didn't need mentioning, but it seems the GCOD is counter intuitive enough that people are thinking of it too much like an RC with a super flash.

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People are still looking at this in a weird way. The intention of someone who is GCODing should be to make one of your moves whiff. TagerTime's speculated punish, doesn't work when you whiff something even if the changes he is speculating on occur.

 

Now your talking about something different than i was. For example if you do 5a>5b>3c and they GCOD against your 5b and make 3c whiff, then ofcourse you wont be able to do anything about it. What I was talking about the entire time was in regards to what i quoted where they said the opponent OD cancels from Tager’s 3c. I know you cannot currently voltec cancel 720 if you do it from a gatling, My speculation about VC>720 was if they made voltec cancel 720 easy enough to where you could do it from a gatling then it could be possible. In this case, even if they still don't make VC>720 possible from a gatling couldn't you just do voltech counter instead with its new hammer guardpoint to block and counter most GCOD reversal attempts?

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