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[CP 1.1] Iron Tager Gameplay Discussion

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I kind of like the new AC, the mixups you can get from GF whiff are really neat, although if you dont have magnetism having to forcefully 2d or SB midscreen is pretty dumb. If they can keep the gf whiff shenanigans but give it a way to follow it up without SB it would be awesome, maybe adjust the bounce arc so it can be followed by sj.b/c/d(but not 6c or any grond normals) into GP?

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GF whiff stuff is nice and all, I just hate how AC's previous role as an anti-air/anti-jump-while-magnetized tool has been marginalized. Because it's not worth the risk of whiffing AC or getting CH'd just to get a measly 1k-ish damage. 360C has pretty much superseded AC in this regard. I mean, when I first saw the new 360C move, I figured it was going to supplement Tager's anti-jump game as the air-to-air version of AC. Instead it became the replacement to AC, and AC was relegated to being a combo tool/ender. Which is rather lame.

 

It still leads to good damage in the corner. But then again... everything does. The change to AC took away quite a bit, and gave very little. IMO.

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In my ideal world AC leads to GF and nothing else with/without magnetism but with RC you can do 6C on it for a good combo. Also comboable in corner without resources (reasonable reward for landing it with your back to the wall). With the addition of 360C I don't care as much about it being my go-to jump callout (AC is actually slower than tk 360C)

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but tk 360C can't be used when you're on the defense, at least AC has *SOME* head or upper body invul, i really wouldn't mind if they add another AC that actually works as an antiair like kagura's new C flash kick, but you can't combo off it or just gf or SB, 2a or 2c most of the times are just not viable as antiairs, not to mention the combo time of 2a is just awful

Edited by mariusrhpsd

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360C has no invul tho

 

 

but tk 360C can't be used when you're on the defense, at least AC has *SOME* head or upper body invul, i really wouldn't mind if they add another AC that actually works as an antiair like kagura's new C flash kick, but you can't combo off it or just gf or SB, 2a or 2c most of the times are just not viable as antiairs, not to mention the combo time of 2a is just awful

 

The reality is that Tager can almost never use either of these options when at -, even AC doesn't work most the time. For hard reads on jumpouts though 360C is better. The main use I have for AC is during neutral when I grab a badly positioned air dash. For most jump-ins though 2C is usually better, which is a super good trade most of the time even if it doesn't outright win. There's actually a lot of jump-ins you can reverse with 360A as well. The reason AC is so damn bad is that it doesn't have invuln til active. The invuln stops just before active so it gets stuffed so easily even by air hits. 2C on the other hand is only vulnerable on the active frame so it always trades instead of losing.

 

I feel like a F1 anti-air on Tager would be kind of bullshit in addition to all the other defensive options he has. They would have to take something else away from him. It's probably one of his biggest weaknesses and it's part of his character imo. You can't just reverse every single thing you have to learn to block.

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Yeah it's pretty sad when I've pretty much given up on thinking about AC as any kind of an anti-air and am instead focused on this new 6A. They seem to be trying to make 6A do the job that AC should have been doing in the first place. It's weird.

 

... seriously though if a blocked 6A vs an airborn opponent pulls them to the ground immediately how good would that be? Serious question I'm not actually sure. Even if they jumped and blocked successfuly against your pressure you could just yank them back down into a tick throw situation. Though it'd be nice if there were other options there for some kind of true mixup. I know there's 3C for the low, but that's pretty shit on block.

 

Also I never really good at using 360C.

 

@Ctrlaltwtf: I thought the new 2C doesn't have any head invuln whatsoever?

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It has a little but it's still got a huge hitbox which is what makes it good. Unless you mean CP2, then idk.

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I only use 360C when i'm making seriously hard reads, or to catch the other one offguard if they try to avoid air to air, otherwise it's just a shittier AC (with a stronger pull tho)

also, 2c sometimes works for shallow jump-ins if you quick rise, it's much more viable than AC as an antiair... and yet it still sucks

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Wasn't 2A his best anti-air? At least that's what I was using as one, though I've never really played as Tager in CP.

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I have no idea about 2.0 2C. Current 2C has slow-to-begin invuln but it lasts til the first active frame so once you get it off you're guaranteed a trade if you're in range. It trades extremely well too.

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I have no idea about 2.0 2C. Current 2C has slow-to-begin invuln but it lasts til the first active frame so once you get it off you're guaranteed a trade if you're in range. It trades extremely well too.

 

Well gee, and here I was thinking it didn't have any at all.

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the horizontal range of 2c sucks, even though the motion he does would indicate otherwise (i think even pot 2h has more horizontal range) :P

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So, it does seems it depends on the level of the attack, not an universal silly rule that will send tager to the bottom of the tier list yet again

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Tager's best anti-air will and always will be blocking. 2C/AC are so slow that they're risky gusses. 2A is his only reliable reactive anti-air and it sucks -- it's a glorified jab.

 

edit: don't take this as sayings "never 2C/AC they are bad anti-airs". But they are guesses and require hard reads, which is what our gameplay is based off of anyways.

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I'm still not too optimistic about ODR. Seems like it's just going to end up punishing us for doing anything but buster gimmicks more than anything else. Sure, it will give us another potential come-back tool, but on offense we don't exactly have the safest normals as is.

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I'm not too worried. On offense you should only be using A and B normals anyway. Unless you're talking about midscreen stuff like 5C > 2D or 5C > 5D > Bsledge. Both of which have risks regardless.

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Arc showcases 3 of Tagers official changes in this new video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq7UUxd4DZk

 

- 6B is now faster, now can be blocked while crouching.
- B Gigantic Tager Driver (360B) has different blowback. (damage reduced to 3000)
- Overdrive gives many Drive attacks a guard point.

 

But it also shows some other things that carried over from the location test that they dont mention. Also we finally see AC, it still bounces

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Yeah I'm seeing the fact that in a combo, Sledge followup no longer bounces them? In that corner combo off of 360B, it just flattened Litchi into the ground, and then she tech'd. I don't remember if that was a loktest thing.

 

Still interested in seeing how the magnetic pull on 6A is now, which this really doesn't showcase.

 

That repeated 6B combo thing was kinda funny, though I have to imagine that's not exactly optimal.

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Yeah I'm seeing the fact that in a combo, Sledge followup no longer bounces them? In that corner combo off of 360B, it just flattened Litchi into the ground, and then she tech'd. I don't remember if that was a loktest thing.

 

Still interested in seeing how the magnetic pull on 6A is now, which this really doesn't showcase.

 

That repeated 6B combo thing was kinda funny, though I have to imagine that's not exactly optimal.

 

Hammer no longer bouncing was listed in the loke test changes and shown in the loke test video. Also currently 6B has 92 p2 so double stomp would be good if the proration is still the same.

 

To me it looks like AC bounces them further away than it does now. If magged 6A air pull is still very strong as the loke test hopefully magged AC>6A>6B will work.

 

Edit:

 

- I just noticed a brand new change. Air hit 5D now causes wall bound. In the location test video it did not.

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Hammer no longer bouncing was listed in the loke test changes and shown in the loke test video. Also currently 6B has 92 p2 so double stomp would be good if the proration is still the same.

 

To me it looks like AC bounces them further away than it does now. If magged 6A air pull is still very strong as the loke test hopefully magged AC>6A>6B will work.

 

Edit:

 

- I just noticed a brand new change. Air hit 5D now causes wall bound. In the location test video it did not.

 

Wow, 5D wall bound on a regular hit? I wonder how far from the corner you can make that happen. 5D > AC could be great if the hitstun works out. Possibly 5D > AC (whiff) > Stuff. Or 5D > GF (whiff) > Stuff. Or just straight-up 5D > AC > Stuff, if there's some way to combo off of AC more reliably this time. At any rate this could be great news for some midscreen combo options.

 

For some reason I didn't think 6B P2 was so good. Here's to curbstomp combos.

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Wow, 5D wall bound on a regular hit? I wonder how far from the corner you can make that happen. 5D > AC could be great if the hitstun works out. Possibly 5D > AC (whiff) > Stuff. Or 5D > GF (whiff) > Stuff. Or just straight-up 5D > AC > Stuff, if there's some way to combo off of AC more reliably this time. At any rate this could be great news for some midscreen combo options.

 

For some reason I didn't think 6B P2 was so good. Here's to curbstomp combos.

 

Yes right here in this corner buster combo. it was fast so i didnt notice at first till i did frame by frame. 5D wallbounds first then Asledge wallbounds 2nd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq7UUxd4DZk&t=1m15s

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so far what i got from that video:

 

-6b no longer overhead, comes out faster and can chain into itself or 6b/specials, ground bounds on air hit
-Atomic Collider similar to CS version
-6A knocks down on air hit, stronger pull
-360b now bounces far from Tager, possible to combo midscreen with Spark Bolt, combo time seems short.
-5D now wallbounds in the corner
-OD gives armor to D moves, 4D was not shown.

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