[UNIEL] Waldstein

[Tigre]

Introduction

Welcome to the Waldstein thread! Please discuss character strategy, combos, match-ups, and other relevant topics here. Please also feel free to post up any questions you may have about the character as well.

Pre-Match Character Description

He seethes. To save the will and the life of his master with his stout arms.
Accepted the eternal curse to be with his master, obtained the superhuman power.
The old soldier lived through destruction and battles, desires for the master under
the silent nights.
Until the day he gives up his own life at the battlefield.

Waldstein Wiki Page

Notable Players

Fusemaster
Gashi-san
Yuubou
Akaboshi

[thiz]

Here is what I gathered so far. I will only summarize basic stuff, as well as combos that dont require you to be pro.

If you are looking for more in-depth stuff and combos that require you to charge, jump and dash a lot, then wikia got you covered.

S-Tier Grappler hype!!

 

Normals:

•   2A is a low jab
•   5B got a long reach, good anti Air
•   2C is our knockdown tool and a useful combo filler
• 66C is great to rush in
•   j.B got fast start-up and has no hitbox directly below Waldstein
•   j.C is chargable and has a huge hitbox

Command Normals:

• 4B creates a shockwave and downs the opponent, can be combo'd into 5A 
• 3C is his Airgrab
• 6C swings his claws at the opponent, then throws a punch, if the first swing hits, the opponent gets thrown at the wall, the punch after that is an overhead, which can be cancelled via CS

Force Function:

• performed by B+C, projectile, throwlength can be controlled with the stick

Specials:

• 236A/B/EX (Eisen Nägel) is our projectile killer, B version is an overhead, EX version is CS cancellable only on hit
• 623A/B/C (Wirbelwind) moving forward while swinging claws, A and B version deal the same damage
• 360A/B/EX (Drehen Durchbohren) command throw, A = short reach, B = long reach, EX = invincible on start-up
• 214A/B/EX (Verderben) B version graps opponent, EX version has fast start-up and slams the opponent to the other side
• [4]6A/B/EX (Sturmangriff) rushes in, then grabs opponent, is unblockable, A version super slow tho

Infinite Worth:

• 41236D (Werfen Erschlagen) is a powerful command throw, he first does a groundslam, then a bodyslam

Infinite Worth EXS:

• ABCD (Katastrophe) starts by creating a purple pillar, that if it hits, does 3.5k damage, however very lackluster when used in combos

 

[info:BnBs:]

• 2A>5B>5C>236A>236C
• 5B>5C>j.A>j.B>j.6C>4B>360A
• 2B>5C>214B>3C>[4]6C[/info]

[info:Midscreen:]

• 5A>5B>214B>6C>(Walk)>4B>360A
• 2A>2B>5B>5C>236A>214C[/info]

[info:Corner:]

• 2B>5B>214B>5C>3C>2A>5B>5C>236A
• 2B>214A>5A>214B>3C>2A>5B>6C>(Dash)>2C>3C>214C
• 236B>2A>214B>5C>214B>3C>623C>2C>3C
• 236B>CS>2B>214A>5A>214B>3C>2A>5B>5C>236A>623C>2C>3C>214C
• 360C>CS>214B>5C>3C>2A>5B>6C>VO[/info]

[thiz]

Video posting galore incoming. Thought I'd rather create a second post to keep things neatly arranged.

If there was no player names listed, I just put the character without parenthesis. So if you know their names or can read them, please let me know, that'd be super helpful.

If this thread should ever reach page 2, then I will try and keep this post up to date, so everything can be found in one place.

If you find double listings (I try to check them all, but I may always have something slip thru my fingers), please let me know, too.

 

VS. Akatsuki

-

 

VS. Carmine

- Carmine vs. Waldstein

- Notsu(Carmine) vs. Watanabe(Waldstein)

- Notsu(Carmine) vs. Watanabe(Waldstein

 

VS. Chaos

- Watanabe(Waldstein) vs Machida(Chaos)

- Chaos vs. Waldstein

 

VS. Eltnum

- Fusemaster (Waldstein) vs. Senaru (Eltnum)

- Gashi san(Waldstein) vs. Senaru (Eltnum)

- Watanabe(Waldstein) vs. Senaru(Eltnum)

 

VS. Gordeau

- Gordeau vs. Waldstein

- Gordeau vs. Waldstein

 

VS. Hilda

- Hilda vs. Waldstein

- Watanabe(Waldstein) vs. Hilda

- Hilda(welch) vs. Waldstein

 

VS. Hyde

- Rion (Hyde) vs. Fusemaster (Waldstein)

- Hyde vs. Waldstein

- Gashi san(Waldstein) vs. Sugano(Hyde)

- Hyde vs. Waldstein

- Hyde vs. Waldstein]

 

VS. Linne

- Kesuke(Linne) vs Watanabe(Waldstein)

- Linne vs. Waldstein

 

VS. Merkava

-

 

VS. Orie

- Orie vs. Waldstein

- Orie vs. Waldstein

 

VS. Seth

- Fusemaster(Waldstein) vs. Rion(Seth)

 

VS. Vatista

- Vatista vs. Waldstein

- Gashi san(Waldstein) vs. Vatista

 

VS. Waldstein

-

 

VS. Yuzuriha

- Yuzuriha vs. Waldstein

- Yuzuriha vs. Waldstein

- Yuzuriha vs Waldstein

[HDKirin]

Pre-Match Character Description

 

He seethes. To save the will and the life of his master with his stout arms.

Accepted the eternal curse to be with his master, obtained the superhuman power.

The old soldier lived through destruction and battles, desires for the master under

the silent nights.

Until the day he gives up his own life at the battlefield.

 

[Hecatom]

I seriously can't believe that i am the only one playing Waldstein, where are the rest of the people?

[zankoku]

Are the combos ending in 360A real? It seems to consistently whiff whenever I try it, while 360C works (and I don't think it's letting me cancel into 360B).

 

Messing with various stuff, seems a stable ender is

> 5C > 236B > 236C > 3C ( > 214C )

 

You can adapt this into ground-to-ground confirms

5A > 5B > 214B > 5C > ender (3138/3675)

2A > 5B > 5C > ender (2758/3295)

 

or ground-to-air

5B > 5C > ender (2996/3533)

 

Meterless, I tend to like 4B > [4]6B ender since it's still decent damage along with guaranteed cornering the opponent.

[GodPress]

Are the combos ending in 360A real? It seems to consistently whiff whenever I try it, while 360C works (and I don't think it's letting me cancel into 360B).

 

Yes, all enders of 4B>360A work. Most likely doing it too late.

[zankoku]

As it turns out, I was doing it too quickly -- he was whiffing the command throw before they managed to hit the ground yet.

[GodPress]

It is also possible to end on Sturmangriff/godpress (<4>6 a/b/c) instead of 360 if you're looking for corner carry. For example 5A>5B>214B>6C>4B>360A does 2661, with Sturmangriff it does 2649. Something for you to consider especially when confirming from 2A and 5A.

 

Edit: Reading fail, aisight already covered this.

[zankoku]

Yeah I was using [4]6B/C before because I couldn't figure out why 360A was failing. I think 360A deals more damage than B press, but the benefits of guaranteed corner carry definitely can't be overlooked.

[GodPress]

Yeah I was using [4]6B/C before because I couldn't figure out why 360A was failing. I think 360A deals more damage than B press, but the benefits of guaranteed corner carry definitely can't be overlooked.

Yup you are correct, just rechecked. Vorpal activated when I did the BnB the first time inflating the press damage. A/B press both do the same damage of 2649 to the 2661 provided by 360A, a 12 damage difference is pretty insignificant.

 

Edit: Just so I don't fill up the thread with my crap, just meterless variations of the 5A>5B Combo with damage values. You can use 2A instead of 5A as well.

5A>5B>214B>6C>4B>[4]6A/B                                                                    -2649(2911)DMG
5A>5B>214B>6C>4B>360A                                                                       -2661(2924)DMG
5A>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C> J.C(Charge)> Dash > 2B >5B > 5C>236A                               -2782(3056)DMG
                                                        >3C                                 -2717(2985)DMG
5A>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>J.C>J.6C>J.C>J.B>214B                                               -2827(3106)DMG

Tried to get something more off of what aisight posted earlier with 5A>5B>214B>5C, the extensions I used and the damage values off of these were:

The below combo doesn't seem to work on Eltnum, worked on everyone else I tried though
 5A>5B>214B>5C>J.C>J.6C>4B>360A  2792(3154) - The jump normals after 5C need to be delayed as much as possible to allow the opponent to drop for 4B.
                           360C  3108(3415)
                           236A  2800(3077)
                           236C  2964(3257)
                          [4]6A  2857(3139)
                          [4]6C  3089(3395)

 5A>5B>214B>5C>J.C>J.6C>J.C>J.B>J.214B 2755/3099 

[zankoku]

Mashed out some stuff with 2B starter too, since that seems to be his only real low.

 

UNIVERSAL:

2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.C > land > 5A > 5B > j.C > j.214B -- 2697 damage, 46.27% EXS

2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.C > land > 5A > 5B > 3C > [4]6C -- 3214 damage, 49.63% EXS (before EX)

 

MIDSCREEN:

2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.C > j.214B -- 2779 damage, 50.54% EXS

EDIT: 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.C > j.6C > land > j.C > j.214B -- 2869 damage, 50.47% EXS

2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > 4B > [4]6B -- 2767 damage, 47.04% EXS

2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > 3C > [4]6C -- 3146 damage, 44.59% EXS (before EX)

2B > 5B > 214B > 5C > 236B > 236C > 5B > j.B > j.214B -- 3289 damage, 33.46% EXS (before EX)

 

CORNER:

2B > 5B > 214B > 5C > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.B > j.214B -- 3019 damage, 63.84% EXS

2B > 5B > 214B > 5C > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > 66 > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3693 damage, 85.33% EXS (before EX)

[GodPress]

On your midscreen combos you could squeeze out some more damage by doing

J.B>J.C>J.6C which will allow you to end on J.C>J.B for example this combo of yours:

2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.C > j.6C > land > j.C > j.214B -- 2869 damage, 50.47% EXS
Can be altered to:
2B > 5B > 214B > J.B > J.C > J.6C > land > J.C > J.6C > land > J.C > J.B > J.214B - 2956/3248

An alternate corner combo too:

2B>214A>5A>214B>5C>6C>2A>5B>6C>J.C>J.B>214.B       3364(3693)
                              >4B                  3260(3579) reset opportunity perhaps

Also doing the J.C charge combo allows you to do a reset opportunity with

2B>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C(charge)>Dash>2B>5B>5C>236A -2909(3127)
                                        >J.B reset          -2471(2714)

Using CS on his 360 you can do the following too

360A/B>CS>214B>J.A>J.B>J.6C>Land>J.C(charge)>Dash>2B>5B>5C>236A    -2821 or 3545 if you do it from 360C

[gli]

a-cho UNDER NIGHT IN BIRTH ExeLate 1on1大会 終了後 野試合…: http://youtu.be/iDkn984ENSo

At around 54 minutes vs Vatista, is that infinite grab loop still possible in the console version?

Chain Shift after grab super into some kind of corner loop setup to time out Vatista and win.

[zankoku]

360C > Chain Shift > 5C > 214B > 623C > 6C > 6C > 6C > ...

 

The 6C normally wallbounces, so I'm not sure what exactly sets it up to not do so. I think someone on Twitter mentioned it still works, though.

[GodPress]

360C > Chain Shift > 5C > 214B > 623C > 6C > 6C > 6C > ...

 

The 6C normally wallbounces, so I'm not sure what exactly sets it up to not do so. I think someone on Twitter mentioned it still works, though.

 

The Waldstein does 360C> CS> Dash B>214A> 623C > 6C I believe. I just tried it, the first 6C doesn't wallbounce but the second 6C did.

 

Edit:I got it to work, it still exists. The timing is easy enough if you get a high enough launch and it doesn't seem to be character specific.

This is how I think it works, you need to do the 6C as early as possibly to grab them at the maximum height, at this point I think the hurtbox of the enemy character doesn't collide with the boundary of the walls allowing you to loop it.

In some training mode investigation it seems the sweet spot for this to occur is anywhere between 58-68frames after the initial 6C.

 

A potato quality video I recorded displaying it still working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P17k6_Z7d2U&feature=youtu.be

 

Edit2: You can also get this off of regular 360 too, only requiring 100exs & vorpal to activate it. 

[edollarports]

Yeah, anything into 214B 623C on airborne works in the corner iirc. You can do it from round start with vorpal and 200 exs huehue

 

SUPER potato recording https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQrSY6tzqT4

[zankoku]

Testing random command throw into Chain Shift combos!

 

UNIVERSAL:

j.214A/B > CS > 236A > 236C > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214A/B -- 3881 damage

360A/B > CS > 214B > 5C > j.A > j.B > j.C > 3C > [4]6C -- 3327 damage

[4]6A/B > CS > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3876 damage

3C > [4]6C > CS > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214B -- 3495 damage

360C > CS > 214B > 5C > j.B > j.6C > (land) > j.C > j.214B -- 3505 damage

 

CORNER:

j.214A/B > CS > 214B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 4181 damage

360A/B > CS > 214B > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3439 damage

3C > CS > 214B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 4160 damage

360C > CS > 214B > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214B -- 3607 damage

 

EDIT: Also, here's my current progress on frame data..

http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.Yq9oos7K1-k/latest

[Grim-reaper]

combo video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5PkNExDAY4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqjL3T2qcFs

[Hecatom]

Near corner

2A>2C jc JB>JC 5A>6C>3C>[4]6C --3027 Damage

[GodPress]

236B Corner combos, should also work with CH 236A instead. 

236B>2A>5B>5C>3C>2A>5B>5C>236A                              = 3252/3573 (236A whiffs if you do the standard 214B combo)
236B>2A>5B>214B>J.B.>J.C>J.6C>land>J.C(Charge)>J.B(reset)   = 3255/3415
236B>2A>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>land>J.C>J.B>214B              = 3440/3780
                                         >214C              = 3502/3845
236B>2A>5B>214B>3C>2A>5B>5C>623C>6C                         = 3709/4075

Dash B

DashB>623A>236C>5B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C>J.B>J.214B        = 3099/3491 100EXS cost.
                                    >J.C(charge)>J.B Reset = 2999/3295

I don't seem to be able to get much more off of the above dash combo, maybe you guys can?

 

Using Veil Off + 200EXS and CS you can do silly things, definitely not too practical.

Midscreen
2B>5B>214B>5C>J.C>J.6C>4B>360C>CS>41236D =  5440
2B>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C>J.B>J.214C>CS>41236D = 5128

Corner
5C>214A>Dash B>214B>3C>2A>5B>5C>3C>J.C>J.B>j.214C>CS>41236D = 5953

[SonicBoomBrad]

Is there a list of invul frames on specials? Getting pressured seems like a huge issue with Waldstein against characters with fast normals. I can't seem to win a round against a Linne if I happen to get knocked down in the corner. I'm sure this is just due to lack of blocking knowledge, as I only started playing a week ago. But it would also help if I had the option of a reversal. Can anyone help me out?

[GodPress]

Is there a list of invul frames on specials? Getting pressured seems like a huge issue with Waldstein against characters with fast normals. I can't seem to win a round against a Linne if I happen to get knocked down in the corner. I'm sure this is just due to lack of blocking knowledge, as I only started playing a week ago. But it would also help if I had the option of a reversal. Can anyone help me out?

I might be wrong but I think only 360C and 41236D have startup invul. Wald has a bit of a rough time when he's getting pressured by Elt/Linne if you can't spot the gaps.

[SonicBoomBrad]

I might be wrong but I think only 360C and 41236D have startup invul. Wald has a bit of a rough time when he's getting pressured by Elt/Linne if you can't spot the gaps.

What do you do with him when you're getting pressured though? How do I counter poke? How do I escape the corner? I can't count the number of matches I've lost due to not being able to escape the corner.

 

Edit: After watching a bunch of Watanabe videos it seems like when he's cornered he'll do a lot of backdash command grabs for the invul frames. He also does a lot of veil cancels to get the pushback and gain real estate. Both of these seem super risky but I suppose they're better than nothing considering his normals are good at pretty much everything but close range. He also does a lot of wake up regular command throw, or read AA grabs. Lots of risks on defense but I suppose that's what a grappler has to do.

[GodPress]

What do you do with him when you're getting pressured though? How do I counter poke? How do I escape the corner? I can't count the number of matches I've lost due to not being able to escape the corner.

 

Edit: After watching a bunch of Watanabe videos it seems like when he's cornered he'll do a lot of backdash command grabs for the invul frames. He also does a lot of veil cancels to get the pushback and gain real estate. Both of these seem super risky but I suppose they're better than nothing considering his normals are good at pretty much everything but close range. He also does a lot of wake up regular command throw, or read AA grabs. Lots of risks on defense but I suppose that's what a grappler has to do.

That sounds about right based on aisights framedata work our quickest normal is 9F startup (http://piratepad.net/V3GMVfNkvM) which means there probably isn't many areas in a lot of the stronger strings to really press and convert which inevitably leaves us in a situation as you described where we have to take more risk to recover space. That said though, it also means we can try make good use of shield during these strings to maximize effectiveness when we do get space.