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Tigre

[UNIEL] Waldstein

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I might be wrong but I think only 360C and 41236D have startup invul. Wald has a bit of a rough time when he's getting pressured by Elt/Linne if you can't spot the gaps.

360C, 623C, and 41236D all have startup invincibility. 623C is safe jumpable though so heads up on that. Nothing else has invincibility though, I've done a bunch of testing on that so far.

Speaking of safe jumps, here's one (at least if the opponent is holding the button for recovery, if the opponent recovers later then oh well you still jumped and landed safely I guess). After a jump BC6C, juggle jump C6C, finish with another jump C, then hold up toward and do a meaty jump attack. That jump attack is a safe jump, yay.

 

Edit: ooo, frame data! Do you have links to data for any more characters?

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Edit: ooo, frame data! Do you have links to data for any more characters?

I do indeed, some aren't as fleshed out as Aisights currently is but:

Hilda:

http://wikiwiki.jp/hilda/?%B6%A6%C4%CC%A5%B7%A5%B9%A5%C6%A5%E0 (force function, throw, alpha counter)

http://wikiwiki.jp/hilda/?%C4%CC%BE%EF%B5%BB (Normals)

 

Hyde:

http://wikiwiki.jp/hyde/?%C4%CC%BE%EF%B5%BB (Normals)

 

Gordeau:

http://www43.tok2.com/home/photonman/gordeau_wiki/waza1.html (Normals)

 

Byakuya:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8888-uniel-byakuya/?p=826647

 

Nanase:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8885-uniel-nanase/#entry825071

 

That's all I can find for now.

 

Edit:

To further UltraDavids safejump you can opt to instead do J.C(charge)>J.B>forward dash. Brief testing showed that it was safe to all of the DPs I tried, puts him out of range for most peoples 2A but leaves you in range for 360B if they do throw something out to whiff punish. Seems like a good option to mix in with UltraDavids safejump.

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What combo should i do if i catch someone with 2B 5B at max range? If i clap, i can get j.A, but not the j.B. Should i just go for 2B 5B 236A?

 

i dunno what the best option is but if i have meter in that situation i do 2b 5b xx 236b xx 236c, then juggle off the wall bounce

 

and thanks godpress!

 

edit: realized i forgot a step

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What combo should i do if i catch someone with 2B 5B at max range? If i clap, i can get j.A, but not the j.B. Should i just go for 2B 5B 236A?

At near max range you can do:

2B>5B>214B> J.6C>3C>[4]6C = 3083/ 3387

 

At absolute max range you can do

2B>5B>623A>236C>4B>360A =2879/3164

 

Or a combo from 236A>236C or just 236C. 

 

Meterless there aren't many options at all.

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At ranges where the j.A will connect but Gatling into j.B whiffs, you should be able to just Gatling straight into j.6C on most characters.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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At near max range you can do:

2B>5B>214B> J.6C>3C>[4]6C = 3083/ 3387

 

At absolute max range you can do

2B>5B>623A>236C>4B>360A =2879/3164

 

Or a combo from 236A>236C or just 236C. 

 

Meterless there aren't many options at all.

 

what's the reason to do 623a instead of 236b? does it do more damage or something?

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what's the reason to do 623a instead of 236b? does it do more damage or something?

I've found 236A>236C ends the combo slightly earlier than using 623A>236C and you get slightly better positioning with it midscreen by ending in 360A or [4]6A

2B>5B>236A>236C>4B ends there for 2651 where as 623A>236C allows an extra hit on the end

2B>5B>623A>236C>4B>360A for 2738

 

However get slightly more out of this if you're near max range in the corner and leaves you in a good position afterwards.

2B>5B>236A>236B>2C>3C which is 2915

 

Edit:

Midscreen 2B>5B>236A>236C>J.C>J.6C>214B = 3009

Midscreen 2B>5B>623A>236C>Jump Back J.C>J.6C>J.C>214B =3016.

The above combo is definitely more about preference, the difference is negligible and the 623A combo is slightly harder to perform.

 

Edit 2:

Loli-zero mentioned a good point about J.A gatling into J.6C at ranges where J.B will whiff, in these situations you can also do J.A>JC>J.6C

2B>5B>214B>JA>JC>J6C>JC>J6C>JC>JB>J.214B = 2940

2B>5B>214B>JA>JC>J6C>JC(charge)>Dash>2B>5B>5C>236A= 2879

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What do you guys think of 1A? What are its uses? What do you confirm it into? Thanks for all the info so far! 

 

 

Edit:

 

Also for corner 5a I've got: 5a>5b>5c>214B>3c>2a>5b>6C>7J.C>j.214B 3374dmg and keeps them in the corner meterless. wondering if this is somewhat optimal? 

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What do you guys think of 1A? What are its uses? What do you confirm it into? Thanks for all the info so far! 

 

 

Edit:

 

Also for corner 5a I've got: 5a>5b>5c>214B>3c>2a>5b>6C>7J.C>j.214B 3374dmg and keeps them in the corner meterless. wondering if this is somewhat optimal? 

I don't think too much of it outside of maybe setting up tick attempts, lack of special of normal cancels and the fact that its 3 frames slower than both 5a/2a doesn't give itself any favorable qualities. That said, I've not explored much at all and most of the time I get it when I'm trying to get 2A out of block.

 

Your corner combo is with vorpal right? 3070 without, 3374 with. 

You can squeeze a tiny bit more out of it with this plonked on the end:

5A>5B>5C>214B>3C>2A>5B>6C>J.C>J.B>214B = 3101/3408

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Ah, yes forgot to mention it was with vorpal. (Actually forgot I had it on auto-vorpal heh). Seems like you can link 2a from 1A, among other things. Was just curious as at first it seemed to be somewhat useless. ticks/frame traps maybe..

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I have noticed that i can at certain ranges link a 5A after a 1A, i have not checked yet if it has any special property on counter hit.

BTW, it has been a while that i have feel excited to test stuff and learn a new char :)

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Testing random command throw into Chain Shift combos!

 

UNIVERSAL:

j.214A/B > CS > 236A > 236C > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214A/B -- 3881 damage

360A/B > CS > 214B > 5C > j.A > j.B > j.C > 3C > [4]6C -- 3327 damage

[4]6A/B > CS > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3876 damage

3C > [4]6C > CS > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214B -- 3495 damage

360C > CS > 214B > 5C > j.B > j.6C > (land) > j.C > j.214B -- 3505 damage

 

I've been messing with Waldstein in training mode and typing up combos because that helps me remember them, and I decided to mess with these and try to improve them.  I focused on ending with a Meat Squasher whenever possible for the corner situation after, then on upping the damage as much as I could.  I have only tested these on Linne so far, and I haven't touched the corner versions at all, but here's what I came up with:

 

3C XX 214C CS (walk forward) 5C XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [4137]
3C XX 214C CS (walk forward) 5C XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, (walk) 5C 3C XX [4]6C [4676]
 
360A CS 214B, 5C jc j.A j.B j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [2811]
360A CS 214B, 5C jc j.A j.B j.6C, (walk) 3C XX [4]6C [3327]
 
360C CS 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [3543]
360C CS 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, (walk) 5C 3C XX [4]6C [4098]
 
214C CS 214A, DashB XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [4160]
214C CS 214A, DashB XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, (walk) 5C 3C XX [4]6C [4715]
 
[4]6A CS delay 3C, 2A 5B 6C, dash 2C 3C XX 214C [the 6C whiffs on Linne even though it works in other corner combos]
[4]6A CS j.A j.B j.C, DashB XX 214B, nj.B j.C j.6C, nj.C XX j.214B [3352]
[4]6A CS delay j.A j.B j.C, DashB XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 3C XX [4]6C [3896]
 
j.214A/B CS 236A XX 236C, 214B, 5C jc j.A j.B XX j.214B [4037]
j.214A/B CS 236A XX 236C, 214B, 5C 3C XX 214C [4562]
 
 
Edit: I forgot to mention you can combo off 3C without Chain Shift with 236C:
 
3C XX 236C, 214B, 5C jc j.A j.B XX j.214B [3658]
 
Edit 2: Got more damage on 3C XX 214C CS starter up there.

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Ah, yes forgot to mention it was with vorpal. (Actually forgot I had it on auto-vorpal heh). Seems like you can link 2a from 1A, among other things. Was just curious as at first it seemed to be somewhat useless. ticks/frame traps maybe..

So you can, with that in mind you can do:

1A>2A/5A>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>J.C Charge>dash>2b>5b>5c>214A = 2559/2760 or the JC>J.6C>J.C>J.B>J.214B variant for 2540.

Thats cool, and here was me thinking it was terrible.

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I don't think too much of it outside of maybe setting up tick attempts, lack of special of normal cancels and the fact that its 3 frames slower than both 5a/2a doesn't give itself any favorable qualities. That said, I've not explored much at all and most of the time I get it when I'm trying to get 2A out of block.

??

 

1A is 1f slower than 2A/5A. Outside of getting the combo link, it almost makes up for not having much in the way of cancels from it by being 0 on block.

 

 

 

 

I've been messing with Waldstein in training mode and typing up combos because that helps me remember them, and I decided to mess with these and try to improve them.  I focused on ending with a Meat Squasher whenever possible for the corner situation after, then on upping the damage as much as I could.  I have only tested these on Linne so far, and I haven't touched the corner versions at all, but here's what I came up with:

 

3C XX 214C CS 5B XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [4090]
3C XX 214C CS 5B XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, (walk) 5C 3C XX [4]6C [4611]
 
360A CS 214B, 5C jc j.A j.B j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [2811]
360A CS 214B, 5C jc j.A j.B j.6C, (walk) 3C XX [4]6C [3327]
 
360C CS 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [3543]
360C CS 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, (walk) 5C 3C XX [4]6C [4098]
 
214C CS 214A, DashB XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 4B XX [4]6A [4160]
214C CS 214A, DashB XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, (walk) 5C 3C XX [4]6C [4715]
 
[4]6A CS delay 3C, 2A 5B 6C, dash 2C 3C XX 214C [the 6C whiffs on Linne even though it works in other corner combos]
[4]6A CS j.A j.B j.C, DashB XX 214B, nj.B j.C j.6C, nj.C XX j.214B [3352]
[4]6A CS delay j.A j.B j.C, DashB XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 3C XX [4]6C [3896]
 
j.214A/B CS 236A XX 236C, 214B, 5C jc j.A j.B XX j.214B [4037]
j.214A/B CS 236A XX 236C, 214B, 5C 3C XX 214C [4562]

 

Hey good shit! I'll be sure to lab some more with these.

 

Also, from watching the basic combo vid someone linked earlier, found out that a super-stable conversion from [4]6A/B chainshift is 5C > 4B > 5A > 5B > etc. I think it was only worth around 3825 damage, but still good for having relatively easy timing I think.

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Also, GodPress asked about DashB combo damage last page.  The wikia suggests this only works on CH but I've had no problem getting it to work on non-CH in training so I don't know what that's about:

 

DashB XX 623B(2 hits) XX 236C, 214B, j.A j.B j.6C, j.C j.B XX j.214B [3353]

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1A is 1f slower than 2A/5A. Outside of getting the combo link, it almost makes up for not having much in the way of cancels from it by being 0 on block.

 

Whoopsy, misread the wrong normal. Good looking out. 

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Also, from watching the basic combo vid someone linked earlier, found out that a super-stable conversion from [4]6A/B chainshift is 5C > 4B > 5A > 5B > etc. I think it was only worth around 3825 damage, but still good for having relatively easy timing I think.

 

[4]6A CS delay 5C 4B, 5A 5B XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 2C 3C XX 214C is 3841 damage.  

 

Also, some of the combos I just posted are doing slightly damage on Waldstein than they did on Linne.  Does this game have Guts or is something else weird going on?

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1A is the elbow poke right? If your out of 5A range you can link 360b and it should combo.Not sure if it was counter hit or not. I'm not big on combos ending with 360 but if its there I'll take it.

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Alrighty, I spent $60 just to be able to make this post.  Here we go!

 

ALL the info you could want on Waldstein's "Let's Play Catch With Myself" infinite.

(Does that make this post an "infonite"?)

 

Does it still work on console?

You bet your sweet bippy it does.

Video example!

 

WHAT is this infinite?

Various setups exist, but the infinite itself is simple:

6C xN

Yes, that's it.  One button.  It scales down to zero damage doesn't do any damage because the damage for that attack would come from the wallbounce, but if you have the life lead you can easily force a Time Out.

It actually seems not to scale the combo damage at all, so if you need some more damage afterward you can finish with something like 4B->623+B, or 3C for a little extra.

It does not require any timing except that you do the next 6C as fast as possible.  You can mash and you will get it every time, but you will also get tired way before Time's Up.

This game has a large input buffer, or at least 6C does, so the timing is pretty lenient.  Mash it a few times to see what the timing should be, then just tap it appropriately.

Takes 5 minutes or less to learn consistently.

 

WHO does it work on?

Everyone.

Yep.

 

HOW do I set it up?

You put Waldstein with his face up against the corner and catch the opponent with a 6C.

When he releases them, they will not wallbounce, so you just catch them with another 6C and repeat.

The setup everyone talks about is (100 meter, near corner) 5B xx 214B xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...but I found one that I think is easier and more consistent.

I'll explain why it's easier in the next section, but here is the setup:

5AA xx 623B (2 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...since 5AA gives you 5A->5B.

Versus grounded opponents you can do 623B(3 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...

 

WHY does it work?

Waldstein always releases the opponent at the same height, so it is not the height he catches them at that matters.

It seems to be because, in order to have them bounce, the wall-slam animation requires the opponent to not be in contact with the wall, then make contact with it.

To do the infinite, Waldstein must be directly against the wall when he catches them, so that when he releases them they are already touching the wall, and therefore won't bounce.

So I lied, height sort of matters: You need to be directly against the wall and catch them before they come down far enough for their collision box to push Waldstein away from the wall.

Which means they need to be high enough for that to happen.

 

WHEN can I set this up in real matches?

Two things matter:  That you put them up high enough, and how close you are to the wall.  

That means forward-moving setups are best, which is why I recommend 623B(2 hits) over 214B - it moves Waldstein forward more.

Here are some easy setups that cover distance, which I've found to be the most consistent:

100 meter, within 1/2 screen of the corner:

5AA xx 623B(2 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...

200 meter, within 1 screen of the corner:

5AA xx 623B(2 hits) xx 623C, 623B(2 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...

100 meter + Vorpal, anywhere on the stage (!)

5AA->4B xx [4]6A, CS (mash D to get it fastest), 4B xx 623B (3 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...

This one is kinda stupid - land a hit literally anywhere on the stage with Vorpal and force a timeout.

It only actually requires about 20 meter if you have 3 blocks of GRD, because the combo plus the CS will give you the meter to do 623C.

You can do this off pretty much any combo into 4B, like for example 5A->2A->5B->2B->4B xx [4]6A CS 4B 623B(3) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...

 

Enjoy!  I know I will.  :^)

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1A is the elbow poke right? If your out of 5A range you can link 360b and it should combo.Not sure if it was counter hit or not. I'm not big on combos ending with 360 but if its there I'll take it.

2A also combos after 1A so I'd go for that just to be sure.

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All claw-swipe based attacks will cut projectiles. This includes 236 series, 623 series, 5C, and 2C. You'll know you did it successfully when you hear a metallic "SHINNGG" sound as the projectile disappears.

 

That said, you can also kill projectiles with 214's "projectile" of the clap.

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CORNER:

j.214A/B > CS > 214B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 4181 damage

360A/B > CS > 214B > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3439 damage

3C > CS > 214B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 4160 damage

360C > CS > 214B > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214B -- 3607 damage

 

I forgot to post this yesterday, but I played around with these corner CS combos and here's what I got:

 

3C CS 5B XX 214A, 5A XX 214B, 3C, 2A 5B 5C XX 236A [3861]
3C CS 5C XX 214B, delay 6C, walk under 2C 3C XX 214C [4239]
Note: If you want to spend 200 meter, you can just as easily do the midscreen 3C XX 214C CS combo.
 
360A CS 214A, 5A XX 214B, 5C 3C, 2A 5B 6C, nj.C j.B XX j.214B [2889]
360A CS 214B, 3C, 2A 5B 6C, dash under 2C 3C XX 214C [3439]
 
360C CS delay 214A, 5A XX 214B, 3C, 2A 5B 6C, nj.C j.B XX j.214B [3642]
360C CS 214B, 3C, 2A 5B 6C, dash under 2C 3C XX 214C [4184]
 
Note: Waldstein cornered for the next two:
214C CS delay 214A, DashB XX 214B, 5C 3C, 2A 5B 6C, nj.C j.B XX j.214B [4203]
214C CS delay 214A, DashB XX 214B, 3C, 2A 5B 6C, dash under 2C 3C XX 214C [4750]
 
j.214A/B CS 214A, DashB XX 214B, 5C 3C, 2A 5B 6C, nj.C j.B XX j.214B [4261]
j.214A/B CS 214A, DashB XX 214B, 3C, 2A 5B 6C, dash under 2C 3C XX 214C [4754]

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