[UNIEL] Vatista

[Qu_Ane]

5C jB [8]2A is fairly lenient in the amount of time you have between inputs before the opponent can tech.  What's going to screw you up at first is either failing to start charging ASAP or trying to cancel into the dive too early.  I wouldn't recommend getting too hung up on that particular combo route early on due to spacing requirements.  It's a good one to know, but you'll definitely want to pick up the alternatives.

 

Ground moves have a 53f charge time.  Dives are 43f.  Crystals are 61f.

My arm's never gone to sleep from too much movement before. Gonna have to follow this advice too. Though for the record, I made it past the first crouching orb into 2A a few times so I must be doing something right.

 

 

 

I wonder if there's a character you should spar against more with Vatista in between learning combos? I used Gordeau when I was learning this one.  I hear all of the match-ups are so different.

 

There's not much love for 5B and j.B/j.C as starters on the wiki. Are they unreliable due to speed? Although j.C's got a corner combo, I originally though was midscreen.

[Lolimaiko]

My arm's never gone to sleep from too much movement before. Gonna have to follow this advice too. Though for the record, I made it past the first crouching orb into 2A a few times so I must be doing something right.

 

 

 

I wonder if there's a character you should spar against more with Vatista in between learning combos? I used Gordeau when I was learning this one.  I hear all of the match-ups are so different.

 

There's not much love for 5B and j.B/j.C as starters on the wiki. Are they unreliable due to speed? Although j.C's got a corner combo, I originally though was midscreen.

 

Well in addition to getting matchup experience against Gordeau, Merkava, and Waldstein, I'd say the two matchups you really need to grind are Hilda and Yuzuriha. These matchups are tests of patience since both characters in neutral strip half of your tools.  

 

Yuzuriha in general has so many options to get around Lumen and Beam zoning, while her 4B makes Crystal pressure useless.  I spend a lot of time in this matchup dash blocking into her slashes.  Also restrain yourself from Flashkicking when she's in stance as her dashes, teleports and dodge will all avoid it allowing her to punish for free.

 

Hilda isn't as bad since you do have some options when you have meter. Winning Vorpal is very important because of the meter gain, and the offensive pressure you gain from CSing something like Dash C FF CS.  Hilda gets wrecked by corner Crystal pressure, so you should learn that at the very least.  Also know that back Spike is plus, down Spike is negative, watch your head, and refrain from pushing too many buttons unless you're in 5A range.

 

For starters, treat 5B similar to a 2B or 5C starter.  I treat  jB and jC as standing B starters as well (Edit: Need to test this actually; the more I think of about it, I think they are worse than standing B starters, but better than A. Going to test my route options later on.  I don't jump forward enough in neutral to optimize it heheh). 5BB I treat as a 2C 5C starter since I believe you can get a double beam combo off of it, but I'm not too sure if it can go into a VO combo due to SMP.  You will hardly ever use 5BB in neutral or a blockstring anyhow.

[Qu_Ane]

Thanks a lot for the advice, which I've been following aptly. Watching my head being the one I've had the most trouble wtih. lol Overheads are slow in this game yet they still can get you if you aren't careful. The only one I didn't get was the negative positive thing. Is that a frame data thing?

 

And I learned something fun from atepo on here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoUikzsYn70

 

If you look at 6:28 right before he starts the orb pressure, he does a part of that same combo we were talking about earlier {2A>2C>5C>Delay j.B(Hold)>Delay j.[8]2A>2C>Crouching Orb(B Hold)>2A}.

 

BUT he leaves out any delay and just goes j.A before j.B. I've found getting to the 2A after the first orb release very easy to do with his method compared to the one on the wiki. The 2C before the first orb is just a matter of timing cancelling the spin she does after transvolans.

[SyncNatsyu]

Yup its frame data, negative being the blocker is capable of moving before the attacker recovers.

 

I've always found the 2A in 2C>2]B[>2A to be easy to connect except from an A starter(in which case 2C is difficult without delay j.B).  I've finally started ending my combos midway and going for oki when I know 2c or 2a won't continue the combo.  I need to learn more 'bout our blockstrings, like what happened above.  Is that the "piano" thing?  , [C] > 2]B[ > > 5A > 2]C[ > [C] >  5A > 2]B[ > etc.?

 

EDIT: Also I have trouble getting the timing down for 5]x[

[Lolimaiko]

Yup its frame data, negative being the blocker is capable of moving before the attacker recovers.

 

I've always found the 2A in 2C>2]B[>2A to be easy to connect except from an A starter(in which case 2C is difficult without delay j.B).  I've finally started ending my combos midway and going for oki when I know 2c or 2a won't continue the combo.  I need to learn more 'bout our blockstrings, like what happened above.  Is that the "piano" thing?  , [C] > 2]B[ > > 5A > 2]C[ > [C] >  5A > 2]B[ > etc.?

 

EDIT: Also I have trouble getting the timing down for 5]x[

 

The B Crystal>5A (Detonate)>C Crystal> 5A (detonate)> B Crystal xN isn't a true blockstring, but it has some deceptively small gaps that are difficult to mash out.  Note if you space it right, many characters have to take very huge risks to get out of it.  Some characters can get out with meter, but even Guard thrusts and IWEX will get shut down or fail to hit.

 

Vatista blockstrings are weird because other than 2B and 2C, her normals can hardly be staggered. I often just free style it, mixing Crystal pressure with 5C>delay A BEAM, and classic rebeats.  Even if she does get a random hit in, max range pokes are difficult to convert to crystal combos.  This is why learning Vatista's 2C>2A (rebeat)>Dash 2A>..... combos are integral to playing the neutral game. Off a CH, a max range 2C can convert into 3k damage + Crystal oki.

[ral92]

Does anyone know of any optimal oki setups in the corner off of B-Drill on the characters that 2C doesn't work on (Chaos, Akatsuki, Byakuya)? The best I have right now is:

 

B-Drill(1 hit)>5C>j.>A-Drill>2C>A-Fireball>2C>2/5]B[ -2524dmg (no vorpal) 

[Lolimaiko]

Does anyone know of any optimal oki setups in the corner off of B-Drill on the characters that 2C doesn't work on (Chaos, Akatsuki, Byakuya)? The best I have right now is:

 

B-Drill(1 hit)>5C>j.>A-Drill>2C>A-Fireball>2C>2/5]B[ -2524dmg (no vorpal) 

 

Here's the one I use:

B DRILL [A,C]>5B (1)>A5 CRYSTAL>5[A]>5B>B BEAM>C2 CRYSTAL>2B>A2 CRYSTAL>JC>A DRILL 3019 damage. (2702 if B BEAM misses)

 

Also you can use ...>A2CRYSTAL>B FLASHKICK>2 CRYSTAL 2953 damage. (2666~ if B BEAM misses)

The Flashkick ender is preferred imo because the characters you would use this route on don't have the range to challenge your Crystals from the range the Flashkick puts you.

[ral92]

Here's the one I use:

B DRILL [A,C]>5B (1)>A5 CRYSTAL>5[A]>5B>B BEAM>C2 CRYSTAL>2B>A2 CRYSTAL>JC>A DRILL 3019 damage. (2702 if B BEAM misses)

 

Also you can use ...>A2CRYSTAL>B FLASHKICK>2 CRYSTAL 2953 damage. (2666~ if B BEAM misses)

The Flashkick ender is preferred imo because the characters you would use this route on don't have the range to challenge your Crystals from the range the Flashkick puts you.

 

Awesome! Thanks so much!

[Lolimaiko]

https://youtu.be/TKRv1vWjtaw

 

I made this video to show off some basic applications of using Vatista's charge partitioning mechanics, as well as some physical timers to get a feeling for the 46464646464646.

 

In my opinion, the mechanic is pretty cool, but very unwieldy to use. In addition, there isn't much practical use for it. The best ones are full screen double BEAMS, Assault>A LUMEN, and 2 CRYSTAL>B DRILL , but the reward on everything else doesn't match the execution and the risk you take to pull it off. Hopefully I'm wrong, and this gets people working to find something.

[Lolimaiko]

Been a while since I've shared anything here. Granted; I've made potato quality videos over the past half year showing things I've found.

 

2B>2C>5C>J(B)>A DRILL>2[C]>B5 CRYSTAL>2[A]>5B(B)>C5 CRYSTAL>Backdash>A2 CRYSTAL>DASH C>B2 CRYSTAL>B DRILL/2C

(B) DRILL>2[C]>B5 CRYSTAL>2[A]>2B>(B) BEAM>C5 CRYSTAL>Backdash>A2 CRYSTAL>DASH C>B2 CRYSTAL>B DRILL/2C

This is a Corner Crystal setup that allows Vatista to partition an up-charge during her Dash C. It also gives her a free mix-up as the explosion from the last Crystal keeps the opponent in blockstun. There are a couple of problems though: Dash C doesn't hit meaty, so your opponent can always reversal, but then you can easily bait that and punish by detonating your Crystals. Also if you set the Crystal after Dash C too late, your B DRILL will connect during the explosion's active frames and mess up your combo. The video also has footage of what happens when you attempt to place 7 Crystals in a combo/blockstring.

 

I worked on this after thesubrosian and Geinonen told me about this. When Vatista performs a B DRILL while she's landing or really close to the ground, she skips the wind up and goes straight into her overhead active frames. This makes double/triple overheads scary and airtight. These are best used when your opponent is GRD broken however.

 

2C>5C>JB>A DRILL>2C>2 CRYSTAL>B DRILL

Another partition setup. If you use your jump cancel, you can partition an up-charge during your 2C OTG. you delay a little bit to gain enough upcharge before you set a 2 CRYSTAL and keep charging upwards.

 

2C>5B>(no j.c.) JA>JB>A DRILL>2C>5 CRYSTAL>2A>2B>B BEAM>2C>j.c. j. CRYSTAL

Vatista can link her JA from 2C>5B without using her jump cancel which allows you to use it later after a 2C OTG/juggle. Safe jumps and gimmicky tricks ensue.

PM/Tweet me if you have any questions, comments, or concerns!