[UNIEL] Seth

[brett_]

Alright I was able to try that corner 4C I explained before and while doing the corner CS combo normally works once in a while, the timing is weird and the opponent might tech before 623A, if you do 4C you end up closer, the orb ends up closer and the enemy doesn't get time to tech, I'll dig up my capture card and show an example of what I mean.

 

 

Delaying the 623C worked wonderfully after dash C, thanks Brett, I felt like I'd miss the cancel window if I delayed it too much, but that wasn't the case.

 

Another small note:

I like this way more over what I usually do after a blocked dash C > 623A crossup (I just 214AC right away, the risk of dropping that is high too)

 

I found out that you can actually increase the damage if you squeeze a 623A > 2C(1) after 623B (Not only that but that also means there's no risk of dropping 214AC since you cancel right after 2C, you don't have to time if after 623B and of course you can still 6C after the move)

 

Edit:

It seems like this extended route isn't possible after a command throw > CS > Dash C starter (Or 623C >CS). They tech before 6C, and it doesn't seem like a j.6C makes it work.

 

1) Ah yeah, that definitely sounds correct about the orb distance. I find that the drop point is between 623B > 623A usually though, and that if 623A connects, the orb usually does too unless something weird is going on. In any case my general advice is to delay your 623B after j.214A to get the height a bit lower. In my experience I've found that combo to be extremely consistent without doing 4C, so I've never considered it, but it seems like there's no harm in it either.

 

2) Yeah, general rule of thumb is that if you hit them deep enough with Dash C that you cross up, you can always delay cancel to same-side correct it.

 

3) this works from 623A starter? so you have two 623A's? Interesting, i'll have to go record damage on that when I have a chance

 

4) Command throw has some starting proration on it, so some things don't work. 

 

5) On a side note, regarding command throw CS fastfall - I generally recommend NOT fastfalling - you can pretty much do every single CS followup without fastfalling, and fastfalling actually has variable amounts of effecting "frame advantage" because it depends on the height at which you actually CS'd. If you CS then fall, it actually doesn't really matter at what point you CS cancel, you can even do it extremely late and still get a dash C or whatnot. Gauging when you touch the ground is also a lot easier than gauging when your fastfall landing recovery is over - I think the only reason you'd really want to fastfall is to be closer to them if you want to do something janky like 5A > reset command throw or something extremely random. For all extensive purposes I think it's better to not fastfall.

[S.D.]

1) Nailed it, I can get it consistently now, delaying 623B was the tricky part, in that case yeah, if you want to make it undroppable and you're not sure if you delayed 623B nearly enough (*cough* netplay) 4C just as an extra layer of safety can't hurt.

 

3) Correct, there's the 623A starter which usually come out after a cross up dash C and then a second one after 623B, if you end with the usual fastfall Dash C finisher it does about 3560 damage.

 

4) Indeed, I'm a bit bummed out by the fact that it doesn't work off a 623C > CS either. Oh well.

 

5) That's a great point to keep in mind, I'ts just that fastfalling just feels more natural because it feels like they'll be able to tech if you don't get there ASAP. But that doesn't seem to be the case huh? Time to get rid of some muscle memory.

[o Nereus o]

Have you guys tested out any setups after Seth's 41236D? I haven't read the Seth guide Brett made thoroughly yet so i apologize if there's a setup in there and im asking anyways.

[brett_]

Haven't really messed around with post-IW things - I think you can set an orb and oki afterwards? Don't really remember though. TBQH I rarely do IW enders lol.

[Rikir]

My least favorite matchup is Carmine. Shuts down your orb game easily, and once you get pinned by blood wheels/spikes/whatever its over ._.

[VietGeek]

What's the overall best way to input fastfall after 214BB? I'm trying to connect '214BB 22 623A CS (orb hits)' on some of the newer VO combos and I can never get the orb to hit, or I whiff the 623A. I think I'm doing it too slow but I can't tell.

 

For reference, this is one of the combos I'm trying:

 

ex command grab, j214a, 5b, 623b, 214a~c, 6c, j236b, j214a, 21(4)bb 22 623a, orb hits, vo, j.c, j214a, iw 4.7k

[S.D.]

the best input to fastfall? I tend to just do 22, the only time I use 2AB is when I have to do 214B4B (Like in the combo you posted) since for some reason doing 22 feels unnatural to me after the extra 4.

 

I think Brett also does 2AB, you can find a similar combo here http://www.twitch.tv/thebrett/b/568728946 at about 12m40s.

[Kaori]

I always use 2ab

[brett_]

For combos, I don't think it's a big deal, but at neutral I think it's really important to be using 2AB and 4AB bceause otherwise your hand goes all over the place at times.

 

For example, doing a rising jump then immediate fastfall for mixups is so much easier if you do 9 > 2AB rather than 9 > 22, or doing fastfall -> command throw / throw etc. Just less of a hassle.

 

also the j.214A > 214B4B > air backdash > j.214A > 6C route seems annoying to input as 44.

[o Nereus o]

 

What's the overall best way to input fastfall after 214BB?

IMHO it's a preference thing. I feel that doing 2AB works best for me due to accuracy. I'd do 22 and fastfall too late as well... i just prefer to hit the button.

[brett_]

also can stellarcircle either update his post, or can tigre put my guide link on the first post? I simply want less people wasting time struggling to find correct info etc.

[brett_]

So....in case anyone didnt know, apparently 2A whiff is actually just as good as 5A whiff in terms of frame advantage from reverse beating - we just actually did some more frame data tests.

 

My google doc has some of the updated frame data on it

[heavymetalmixer]

No date

UNIEL: Replays #3
VS Chaos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KreflKa_iJg&t=28m29s

VS Seth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KreflKa_iJg&t=1h7m30s

VS Yuzuriha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KreflKa_iJg&t=1h8m47s

VS Byakuya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KreflKa_iJg&t=1h41m38s

VS Vatista: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KreflKa_iJg&t=2h5m54s

VS Merkava: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KreflKa_iJg&t=2h48m14s

[heavymetalmixer]

08/10/2014

A-cho 2 on 2 (3/5)
Vs Hilda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jF-H0x_kQ&t=5m51s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jF-H0x_kQ&t=8m16s


A-cho 2 on 2 (2/3)
VS Merkava: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWxWDPNgN34

VS Vatista: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWxWDPNgN34&t=3m18s

VS Linne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWxWDPNgN34&t=16m49s

VS Waldstein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWxWDPNgN34&t=29m41s

VS Carmine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWxWDPNgN34&t=34m41s

VS Yuzuriha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWxWDPNgN34&t=36m25s

[brett_]

just a tiny note: that set vs Hilda is post-tourney Casuals, not actual tournament.

[brett_]

Totally don't know why it didn't cross my mind before, but after the corner unblockable setup into A orb > 214B, you can just do the following:

 

j.214B > Orb Hits > 6C > 236B > j.214A > 214AC > Orb Hits > 6C

 

does 2649, works on every character.

[S.D.]

Nice, that one is relatively easier to do.

 

What I used to do for the old version was:

j.214B > Orb Hits > 6C > 236B > j.214A > 214B 4B > j.2AB > 5C > Orb Hits > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 623A (2707 damage or 3161 damage if you add a 623C at the end) and then assault C or Dash C or grab as a mixup, probably not the best oki since they get out of the corner, I was trying to go for damage but Seth has some amazing corner pressure and sometimes that's more valuable than a little extra damage so I'll most likely be sticking to the version you posted, I just need to get rid of the muscle memory from the old BnB.

[o Nereus o]

Two CH Routes... 

 

CH 2C (2) > 623A > 5B > 623B > 2C (1) > 214AC > stuff

 

-The 2C route with an additional hit due to the CH status on 2C

 

- A Bit iffy because the farther you're away from the opponent when the CH 2C hits, the farther you are when 623B hits. You can do 66 2C (1) if you're too far away after the 623B connects.

 

 

CH 5C > 3C > 2A (whiff) > 5B > 623B > stuff

 

-Tested this on normal hit... and the 214AC will not connect when doing 623B > 623A > 2C (1) > 214AC.

 

Ill add the damage when i get home soon..

[S.D.]

 

 

CH 2C > 623A > 5B > 623B > 2C (1) > 214AC > stuff

2355 damage (That first CH 2C has to hit twice, doesn't it? Don't omit those details)

 

 

CH 5C > 3C > 2A (whiff) > 5B > 623B > stuff

This one seems a bit impractical, not only it's hard to hit confirm into it but the timing seems pretty tight and also it might be character specific (623B tends to whiff sometimes, even if it's slightly delayed after 5B)

[o Nereus o]

2355 damage (That first CH 2C has to hit twice, doesn't it? Don't omit those details)

This one seems a bit impractical, not only it's hard to hit confirm into it but the timing seems pretty tight and also it might be character specific (623B tends to whiff sometimes, even if it's slightly delayed after 5B)

Thanks for posting.. i completely forgot to add the damage lol. I was going to add the damage to the full combo though... which i believe was around 3200+. 

 

As for the CH 5C, there hasn't been an instance to where the 623B whiffed for me. Could you give me the character or characters in which it's whiffing on?

[brett_]

2C CH Combo: 3210 from dash C ender. Pretty impractical considering it's not only spacing specific (point blank 2C unless you want to throw in microdash 2C(1) ), but also only does 40 less than the exact same combo without 2C(1), which also works from non-CH, and works anywhere.

 

5C CH > 3C > 5Aw > 5B > 623B > 623A > 2C(1) > 214AC > etc = 3345 with dash C - best 5C CH combo seen thusfar I think

 

5C nonCH > 3C > dl 623B > 623A > 2C(1) > 214AC > etc =  3281 with Dash C - best dash C ender damage, but 5C > 623B  > Dash C > 623A > 2C(1) etc does 3307 with 2C(1) > 3C ender.

[o Nereus o]

2C CH Combo: 3210 from dash C ender. Pretty impractical considering it's not only spacing specific (point blank 2C unless you want to throw in microdash 2C(1) ), but also only does 40 less than the exact same combo without 2C(1), which also works from non-CH, and works anywhere.

 

5C CH > 3C > 5Aw > 5B > 623B > 623A > 2C(1) > 214AC > etc = 3345 with dash C - best 5C CH combo seen thusfar I think

 

5C nonCH > 3C > dl 623B > 623A > 2C(1) > 214AC > etc =  3281 with Dash C - best dash C ender damage, but 5C > 623B  > Dash C > 623A > 2C(1) etc does 3307 with 2C(1) > 3C ender.

While i was doing damage comparisons.. i must've missed the fact that it did less. Thanks for pointing that out.

[brett_]

That was a typo - I meant to say that it does 40 damage more. So you can sacrifice only 40 damage for an extremely stable non-CH specific version.

[Keech]

http://youtu.be/roQwFAy9QCE?t=47m41s don't get it. How seth fall diagonally with this speed :\ j.b mby? But why he fall diagonally, not straitgh to down?

[S.D.]

I think that's a j.2C