[UNIEL] Yuzuriha

[DonkeyKnifer]

Might depend on the spacing as well, but I believe D cancelling it makes it safe.

 

After getting some lab help from a friend it turns out it is in some cases actually positive on block, not much though. I'm guessing around +1-2. If you mash 5A or throw you will definately win unless they shoryu. Seems this setup can be safe vs some reversals but not many.

 

I wrote down the notations from the intermediate combo video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsbtwwQi7hk

 

Midscreen

1. 5A 5C 236A 9jc~D IC 4C 2C (4B) 236BA 214B~D DC J421A - 3148 (side swap)

2. 5A 5C 236A 9jc~D IC 4C 2C (4B) 236A 421C j.214B~D DC J.421A - 3056

3. 5A 5C 236A 9jc~D IC D[C] j.236A j.214A~D DB 236ABA 214C+D - 3969

4. A+D 4C 2C 236B 421C 236A 214B+D DC J421A - 1657

5. 236B~D 236B 214B+D 2C 4C j.B j.2C j.C DB 236ABA 214C+D - 4027

Corner

6. 5A 5C 236A 9jc~D IC 4C 2C 236BA 214B~D DC j.421C~D - 3194

7. 5A 5C 236A 9jc~D IC 4C 2C 236BAB 214B+D DC j.421C~D - 3247

8. A+D 5C 236B 8jc~D IC 4C 2C 236BA 214B~D DC j.421C~D - 1876

9. A+D 4C 2C 236AB 214A~D DC j.236A j.236C j.214B~D DC j.421C~D - 2333

10. 4B(1) 236BA 9jc IC DC j.236A (delay) j.214A~D DB 236ABA 214C+D

11. 4B(2) 2C 236A 9jc IC DC j.236A (delay) j.214A~D DB 236ABA 214C+D

[Kazuhiro]

Okie just tested this. Dash C doesn't take up stance C input, also can't hold C after 66C ends to enter stance. So it's possible to go j.236AB > 421C.

Tested 66C > j.236AB > 421C on standing opponent.

Probably just not a good idea though, since if it ends near a corner they will wall bounce and you end up teleporting into the corner. Not sure if the same thing happens if the opponent is in the air.

But probably best to just do j.214 A or B as you listed, since they should work in all situations and put you right beside the opponent

 

Ah, right.

 

Although, if you're midscreen it's not a bad idea to do 214C teleport as it moves the screen towards and makes your opponent closer to the corner. 

 

Was working on a 5C anti-air combo and came up with this:

 

5C  → j.B-j.2C-j.B  → 66[C]  → j.236A  → j.214A~D  → 2C  → 4B  → 236A  → 214B~D  (3199 | 3511)

 

Don't know if there's something better, but 3.2k is not bad.

[kazukifafner]

Okay, so, Gordeau can really just go die in a ditch for all I care, honestly.

 

Multiple mixup options make for a sad Yuzu

 

Also, I've had more success with 5C AA > 214B > Shenanigans. Don't have to worry about the spacing of the AA that way.

[LionHeartx]

Anyone wanna explain stance button switching to me. I see a lot of Yuzu's end combos with 236a xx 236b xx 214b so I figured its something I should learn.

[kazukifafner]

Slide holding is absolutely essential to using her neutral and some of her combos.

 

There's not much to inputting it. Basically, you hit the move and the button you want to switch it to at almost the same time. So, say you wanted to slide hold to C from 236B. You'd press 236B+C, delaying the C ever so slightly. The best way to describe it is like plinking in SF or other fighting games (though the purpose is different, obviously). Only real issue I've had is that sometimes I'll get EX when canceling into a slide hold from a normal. Seems like the window for timing that is a little stricter, otherwise it just registers the EX regardless.

 

Another thing you'll want to learn eventually is her cancel bonus (that's what I call it, idk what people really call it). Basically, even if the icon is grayed out, you can still use that button one more time by inputting the command and D at the same time. There's a slight delay on this one, and I'm not sure exactly how/why it works in terms of the game's system yet, but it's necessary to perform some alternate combos and give yourself even more options.

 

An easy combo to practice both of them is: 236B (C Slide) > 236B > 214B+D

 

Granted, you can do more with that combo after that, but that part is a simple way to get the feel for those two quirks.

[LionHeartx]

Aight that how I thought it worked. Thanks for the confirmation. 

[Sadeyo]

Very dumb Yuzuriha question since I can test it out myself but while I'm away from the console I'll leave the question here. We all remember the A, B, and C stock that relates to her swings but what's killing me is that after 236A/B we have used up the option and can't repeat those attacks again, so after those two attack does the stock affect 214A/B that if I use 236B~A 214A/B <---This will not work since there's no stock from the original attack.

 

Is this statement true?

[Kazuhiro]

Yeah, it's true if you don't use slide hold.

 

For it to work you need to hold C after the first 236B. So 236B[C]A > 214A/B.

 

If you're trying to do it after 66C, you can just hold C after the dash attack and go on from there: 66[C] > j.236AB >j.214A.

[streak]

Very dumb Yuzuriha question since I can test it out myself but while I'm away from the console I'll leave the question here. We all remember the A, B, and C stock that relates to her swings but what's killing me is that after 236A/B we have used up the option and can't repeat those attacks again, so after those two attack does the stock affect 214A/B that if I use 236B~A 214A/B <---This will not work since there's no stock from the original attack.

 

Is this statement true?

 

Yes if you input 236B~A > 214A/B normally it will not work. Stance allows you to use each button once regardless of which attack you perform.

However if you use the D input trick kazukifafner mentioned then it should work, so it would look like  236B~A > 214B+D with the D being slightly delayed

 

EDIT: i'm too slow haha and missed that slide holding C would let you do the sequence as well

[Diveman]

What's the difference between ending combos with DC j.236BAB as opposed to do the full j.236ABA? do you get better positioning?

 

EDIT: Also I'm not really using the D trick for doing 214B after 2C 236BA, I actually just hold the C button during 2C and 214B comes out.

[kazukifafner]

Yeah, slide holding into C will let you do 236BA > 214B every time, so no need to do the D trick.

 

Also, the difference between those two is that ending with A causes them to tech above you, whereas ending with B causes them to wallbounce and tech away from you. Neither one of them are super good for positioning though. That's why j236AB > 421C(D) is more common. Or j236AB > j214A(D), depending on where you are.

[Diveman]

Also, about this combo

 

5. 236B~D 236B 214B+D 2C 4C j.B j.2C j.C DB 236ABA 214C+D - 4027

 

I can't get it to work consistenly, the 214B+D doesn't hit midscreen and if I try to do the 2nd batou, it doesn't combo. Any tips?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Wow, comboing with her isn't as hard as I thought it would be. I mean it's difficult, but not " FUCK THIS CHARACTER" difficult, then again I haven't really played anyone yet, so I might be speaking too soon.

[tuyenle360]

Hey guys, I'm having trouble trying to use 421C in combos, I saw that you could combo into 214B from it but for the life of me I just cant do it. I try and input 214B as fast as I can after 421C but it either doesn't come out or the enemy recovers.

Any tips would be appreciated.

[ABadRobot]

Does anyone have tips for getting in? Or which normals I should use to consistently start combos? From long range its no problem, but up close I have problems with pressure or starting a combo, even though I can do the combo just fine.
Also, is it just me or is her reversal game ass? I get absolutely mauled by Carmine and have no idea what to do to get out.

[BlackYakuzu94]

What reversal lol.

 

 

 

Having just started, I can't really say my words have any merit, but you can can teleport out if you have an opening.

 

 

In terms of spacing normals, I've seen a lot of people, including LK use 2C, and 5C is a pretty good anti air. That's all I really got.

[Dusk Thanatos]

Your options under pressure are gonna be the system options -- use shield for pushback and grd, then jump out/mash out/backdash out, or 214D out. Your best friend in this game is shield + thorough blockstring knowledge.

 

As per pressuring, just make them respect with frametraps, then get creative after (BE j.2C whiff into throw, etc.). It sounds gimmicky at first, but in this kind of system, mindgames like that will be your best way to open people up once you feel like they're not mashing you out.

[kazukifafner]

Pressuring Tips:

 

Don't go in for up-close pressure all the time. Her normal set just isn't good for constant pressure like others in the cast. 2C and 6C are the only lows you have that aren't ridiculously short range, and you don't have an overhead to speak of. You can set up frametraps with passing link like a lot of the cast can, and you can do gimmicky assault j2C stuff, but it's nothing impressive and really just takes advantage of the same game mechanics that every character already has.

 

The idea is that you only rush in after conditioning them with stance slashes. If you get them so busy focusing on your mid-range game, then you can head in to catch them off-guard. Beyond that, most of your pressuring opportunities will follow after a previous combo ender. Normally, you go for some quick pressure setups and then zoom out of there (421 series or 214 series usually do the trick, sometimes even as simple as moving/jumping backwards) if they aren't getting caught.

 

Getting-Out-of-Pressure Tips:

 

You have no reversal options unique to your character. The only thing you've got, as mentioned, are the tools the system provides to everyone. 214D is fine if you need it, but try to avoid it if possible, obviously. Still, most of what you'll be doing is blocking, shielding, and looking for/trying to create an opening. Teleporting out can work if you've got down their patterns. Otherwise, it's really risky. Of course, getting their pressure patterns down is essential to actually escaping pressure in the first place. Sometimes you can poke out. Sometimes you can teleport. Sometimes you can throw. Sometimes you can 6D. Sometimes you can IW(EXS). And sometimes you just have to play patient and keep holding back.

 

There aren't a lot of tricks to escaping pressure with Yuzu. You just have to play it cool and bide your time, using the mechanics to help create a gap for you to weave through.

 

Neutral/Zoning Tips:

 

At least for neutral, get into the habit of only leaving stance by pressing D (as opposed to letting go of the button). Doing that will make your stance actions much more deliberate, which you'll need. Sometimes, you will make a mistake and wish you were still in stance, that's why you only leave it when you press D (in neutral, do whatever you want in a combo, lol). For example, here's a situation that's happened to me a lot: You jump up for j236A. They move underneath you and the attack whiffs. If you let go of A, then you'll fall to the ground and get punished, because you can't use another stance move in the air after you've let go of the button. However, if you kept the button held, you can go into 421 or 214 series to escape the punish. Now, there is a slight delay before you can use another stance move on whiff, but as long as you are holding down the button, you can input another one well before you hit the bottom.

 

Use slide holding. Having an extra 236A or 236B is the difference between keeping them honest and getting blown up. Sure, you probably won't be able to follow up after the third input, but that one hit will give your opponent more to worry about, giving you more control over neutral. Now, having said that, it's also important to think ahead. If you want to used 421C to escape/mixup after zoning slashes, then you obviously can't slide hold into C. You always need to be aware of what your plan is every time you enter stance mode. Really, it's all about keeping the most important options available for the given situation/plan of attack.

 

Get comfortable with her rhythm. This is especially true of her teleports. Essentially, the teleport animation has to be completely finished before you can input another stance move, even if you're holding a button down. Once you get used to the slight delay there, you'll find it a lot easier to trip up your opponents, or at least give them something to think about. She reminds me a lot of Akihiko from P4U in this regard. Yuzu's stance and Aki's special cancelling both have an awkward timing that you just have to get used to in order to be effective. But once you do, it's like breathing.

 

As much as you can, confirm off of your stance slashes. With the exception of max range, you can always follow them up with a combo. 236A, 236B, j236A, j236B can all be confirmed into ~3k damage. Not only that, but they lead into situations where you can do some of her gimmicky pressure. If you want to see your win rate go up, learn how to confirm them.

 

EDIT: Oh, and 5C is a great anti-air that you can also confirm into good damage. 5C > 214B works no matter where you hit the opponent for the most part.

[Dusk Thanatos]

I think you really overcomplicated the fuck out of that.

 

Also, her pressure is fine. It's nothing to write home about, but you make it sound godawful when you can still do interesting things. Like, don't write it off because you think it's not guaranteed or covered -- if you've done your job, they're gonna act like something's covering your mixup anyways. Just play and see how they act, then respond accordingly. You're playing against the player with yuzu's pressure, not trying to 50/50 them every second or something.

 

I don't get what's so hard to for everyone to understand about pressure in this game, lol. Not enough people played Melty, I guess >_>

[kazukifafner]

I'm just saying that she doesn't have the godlike pressure that some of the other characters have, so you shouldn't treat her like she does.

 

Yes, she has pressure. I never said she doesn't have pressure (and I certainly never said "godawful"). You just aren't gonna be playing the game like you're Gordeau or Carmine.

[Dusk Thanatos]

Carmine's pressure is really easy to shield out of iirc

 

Anyways, it's not just that, it's that I think you're really underestimating what the system itself offers you to open people up

[BlackYakuzu94]

I've seen in videos and tonight during my session that cancelling into her 236B off a blocked C move is a pretty decent frametrap, gets them to respect it most of the time.

[KrsJin]

http://youtu.be/MOr8dIx7ksI?t=18m29s

 

After she does the combo linked here she does j.214A as oki. Isn't that supposed to be unsafe or at least minus? I see similar use of j.214A/B very often, even in neutral sometimes and JP players always respect. Is it because of the possible stance mixups to stop mash or why do they always respect j.214A/B? It's minus afaik

Do you by chance know the name of that Yuzuriha player?

[kazukifafner]

Carmine's pressure is really easy to shield out of iirc

 

Anyways, it's not just that, it's that I think you're really underestimating what the system itself offers you to open people up

 

My only real point about Yuzuriha's pressure is exactly what you said: It's nothing to write home about (hell, I even mentioned passing link). That's why I don't think it's a good idea to use it constantly over her other tools.

 

But yeah, frametraps are totally a thing that you can do. So is assault. I just think going in for pressure with her is much more effective when you make sure your opponent is worried about everything else you can do as well.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Basically, our gameplan is to play neutral and mid range as good as we can and keep them out of our face as much as possible.