[UNIEL] Chaos

[Tigre]

Introduction

Welcome to the Chaos thread! Please discuss character strategy, combos, match-ups, and other relevant topics here. Please also feel free to post up any questions you may have about the character as well.

Chaos Wiki Page

Notable Players

PPP
Rocket
Motochika
Purple People
Desumo

[fiendmaw]

http://www.twitch.tv/llakb/b/544656906 There's a Chaos at 1:28:00(and maybe earlier,I haven't watched it from the beginning to end) that seems to know what he's doing.

[HDKirin]

Pre-Match Character Description:

 

He grins. Staring at the truth with his clear eyes over the glasses.

The beast within him, Chaos Code. Hiding and waiting for the chance to release the chain.

His dearest friend's wish. His delightful colleague had a conflicting ambition.

Which to choose is too obvious. The obedient beast bares the fangs.

They will equally bite off everyone that stands in his way.

 

[LordSpectreX]

This character is ass. Go play Gordeau.

 

 

 

...

 

 

You still here? Okay, well, as you may know, Chaos is a shadow/puppet character who's quite infamous for having some pretty major flaws. Most of them are warranted. Still, don't let the matchup chart put you off, he's not that bad. He does have some very interesting and useful strengths, he just requires to a have a good brain and technical skill in order to do well with him, he's certainly not someone you can just press a few buttons with and win, even against mediocre opponents.

 

Most of this is opinionated information and is subject to change or errors, for a more objective detailed list of his moveset, visit; http://in-birth.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_(Gameplay)

 

Important Normals

• 2A : Really useful move and is going to be used a lot. Covers a good amount of space, and decent frame advantage. Your main move for stagger and Azhi pressure. 
• 2B : Low reaching kick, mostly used to frame trap after 2A pressure.
• 5C : Main grounded poke. Moves Chaos forward, easy to hitconfirm with 5CC and acts as a decent anti air.
• 5BB : Main anti air. Does a kick at a sharp angle in the air. 
• 6C : Send out his book as a shield. Very useful spacing normal, but has a significant gap between the shield itself and Chaos. If it catches a projectile, it sends out an additional blast which almost reaches fullscreen.
• j.B : Good air-to-air and has a hitbox behind it, acts a lot like Ragna's j.B. 
• j.C : High hitting kick, works well at stopping jump-ins preemptively. 
• j.2C : Main overhead tool, leads to OTG combo on air hit, standard combo on grounded hit, useful and accessible all-round move to throw out.

Force Function

Chaos rolls through the opponent. Cannot roll through a cornered opponent. Has some invincibility in the middle of it, but not as much as you may like. Useful for dodging jump ins when you're in the corner as you switch places. Use wisely. Also used to confuse the opponent during pressure.

 

Special Moves

• 236A/B/EX (Air OK) "That's the Prey" - Azhi lunges with his claws. All versions are very very unsafe on whiff, especially vs fast characters like Linne and Seth, so be careful. A version claws infront of him, while B version does a lunge in the air, can also touch grounded opponents. EX version can be followed up for an OTG combo and has pretty incredible corner carry.
• 214A/B/EX (Air OK) "Breathe Out" - Sends out fireballs at a down-forwards angle. A version fires one flame, B version fires two. This move can be charged to increase the distance the fireballs go, fully charged reaches nearly fullscreen.
• 623A/B/EX (Air OK) "Repel Them" - Azhi leaps in the air and flicks out his tail. Effective poke. Version changes the height Azhi jumps too. Can be cancelled to Chaos or Azhi's moves, thus making it very effective in pressure also.
• 22A/B/EX "Hide" - Azhi shrouds himself in a shadow. A strange move that I'll have to test more, but it causes Azhi to become invulnerable. While in the shadow, you can give him commands such as "Slide Up" to make him go towards the opponent. After a brief period of time, Azhi will emerge from the shadow with a leaping bite, which has a long recovery time if blocked. 
• Hold A/B/C (Air OK) "Sidle Up" - While Azhi typically returns to Chaos' side automatically if not doing an action (a la Relius), holding one of the action buttons causes him to walk towards the opponent while invulnerable. Very useful for setting up Chaos' neutral game.

Infinite Worth (41236D)

Very fast. Very easy to combo into anywhere on the screen. Main use is finishing up Veil Off combos or killing the opponent, as Azhi's EX enders usually give better bang for their buck. 

 

Played him for a bit at EVO. Really like this character's gameplay despite his weaknesses. Feel free to ask any questions and hopefully we can work together to bring Chaos up some tier placements!

[MK Peanuts]

Okay, well, as you may know, Chaos is a shadow/puppet character who's quite infamous for having some pretty major flaws.

Actually, if you don't mind, I'm curious what his major flaws are, exactly. I almost never see this character on streams so I really have no sense of what his weaknesses or strengths (if any) are.

[LordSpectreX]

Actually, if you don't mind, I'm curious what his major flaws are, exactly. I almost never see this character on streams so I really have no sense of what his weaknesses or strengths (if any) are.

 

His main weaknesses are;

 

1. Whiffed Azhi swipes, especially 236x, is extremely unsafe on whiff. Even day 1 I was getting punished by people for whiffing it, only going to get worse once people start doing 3k+ punishes. It's mainly why you won't see 236x used much in neutral.
2. Lack of mixup. You can block the way the opponent is facing, so you can't do any crossup shenanigans with Azhi. He also has no special mixup tools, i.e. no standing overhead or command grab. You're going to have to rely on raw jump-in overheads, throws and such to open people up.
3. Chaos' normals are really short. His anti airs and pokes are rather poor and he can't really stop people from just "going in on him" with buttons.
4. Lack of defensive tools, no DP and I don't believe he has any EX moves with frame 1 invulnerability. Roll has a disappointing amount of invulnerability
5. Damage is really low. To get decent damage off combos you pretty much have to give up knockdown.

 

His main strength is that his frame traps are very strong. You can do a lot of tricky stuff to make people scared to press buttons. This is the crux of his gameplay, you keep them blocking hope you can eventually open them up. He does have fullscreen frame traps, but you don't want to rely on it too much cause you'll give them GRD.

[Ross]

Cause I like doing super useless things
 

 

All the color name translations and Language of Origin (I think)

Prateria Lupo = prairie wolf = Italian

Iceberg Lince = Iceberg Lynx = English and Spanish

Vulcano Squalo = Shark Volcano = Italian

Mare Leone = Sea Lion = Italian (should be Leone di Mare)

Landa Vipera = Moor Viper  = Italian (Moor as in Irish Moors, as in Places where Heather grows, hence Purple)

Altopiano Serpente = Plateau Serpent = Italian

Giallo Gatto = Yellow Cat = Italian = WTF WHY IS THE DRAGON BLUE

Verde Bestia = Green Beast = Spanish 

Aldebaran = The Follower = Arabic - Also the name of a star but I assume its a refrence to his beast

Grazia Fuoco = Grace Fire = Italian

JellyFish = JellyFish = English

Cremation Heretic = Cremation Heretic = English

Moos Licht = Moss Light = German

Eclipse Day = Eclipse Day = English

Lapis Lazuli = Lapis Lazuli = English

Orquidea Submundo = Orchid Underworld = Spanish

Heat Haza = Heat Haze = English?  or the in Spanish Haza = small field; plot of arable land in Spanish, so Heat Land or something

Nuit Tonnerre = Night Thunder = French

Ground Horizon = Ground Horizon = English

Uninhabited Island = Uninhabited Island = English

[pokemonblaze234]

His main weaknesses are;

 

1. Whiffed Azhi swipes, especially 236x, is extremely unsafe on whiff. Even day 1 I was getting punished by people for whiffing it, only going to get worse once people start doing 3k+ punishes. It's mainly why you won't see 236x used much in neutral.
2. Lack of mixup. You can block the way the opponent is facing, so you can't do any crossup shenanigans with Azhi. He also has no special mixup tools, i.e. no standing overhead or command grab. You're going to have to rely on raw jump-in overheads, throws and such to open people up.
3. Chaos' normals are really short. His anti airs and pokes are rather poor and he can't really stop people from just "going in on him" with buttons.
4. Lack of defensive tools, no DP and I don't believe he has any EX moves with frame 1 invulnerability. Roll has a disappointing amount of invulnerability
5. Damage is really low. To get decent damage off combos you pretty much have to give up knockdown.

 

His main strength is that his frame traps are very strong. You can do a lot of tricky stuff to make people scared to press buttons. This is the crux of his gameplay, you keep them blocking hope you can eventually open them up. He does have fullscreen frame traps, but you don't want to rely on it too much cause you'll give them GRD.

 

You forgot 1 thing in strengths and that thing is that Chaos is so dam awesome that the opponent looses instantly.   

[CCVengeance]

This character is ass. Go play Gordeau.

Challenged Accepted...

For real, though. This is the first time I have liked a character based on the fact that he is ass. Let's see how he develops.

[Nemesis]

assuming UNIB doesnt die off and after playing Hyde and auto pilot winning for like 70 games - Im gonna throw my self through the chaos wringer. He just looks really fun and I really like his style (if UNIB is at evo next year maybe Ill cosplay him eh?) 

Im in for a world of hurt but here we go

 

please share what knowledge you can find about his optimals and such - I think this guy is just too cool to not play serious

 

Edit : instead of begging mindlessly im gonna post a few videos and try to reference what youve told us a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV_pUxXKD0c

this is a single match were I think the player does well with 6C usage in spacing and to defeat projectiles 

i see some good examples of the 2a 2b tech trap as well 

 

http://youtu.be/rV_pUxXKD0c?t=24m57s (same video) 

 

this is a great example of what I hope to be considered an optimal - starting with his pressure and leading into a 2a combo 
here are the inputs (i think) : 2a 2b 2c 5cc j.b j.c j2.c 2c 6c 236a 236b 6236a/b

2576 dmg and 48.06 Ex Gauge

 

It can be followed up with the 214C EX ender for 3101 dmg  and a hard knockdown- not bad ! 

 

 

im also seeing alot of 236a > 6236a/b in neutral 

[Ctrlaltwtf]

The most glaring flaw I'm finding is the lack of an anti-air. No DP is sad but makes sense. But you're seriously weak against people just jumping in all day. Lizard moves can be used to AA but generally have to be used as prediction rather than reaction. Good spacing and setting up walls of AA with the lizard seem essential to keeping your opponent out.

 

The only normals you have that truly hit upward are 5BB and 5CC. Which, for AA purposes, are a complete joke. If you have time to input it though, your dashing B is the same as 5BB and can sometimes work.

 

This is the best BnBs I've got so far, and it's a great basis for his combo theory if you want to start experimenting:

 

Keep Lizard Close to Chaos

5A>5B>5C>236A>j2C>jC>5B>5C>2C>236B>623B>214B (oki. hold fully)

 

Move Lizard Close to Enemy

5A>5B>5C>236A>j2C>jC>5B>5C>2C>236B (and hold)

 

Close range oki

... > 2C > 22B > B+C

[Crimefighter]

Running B works well as an anti-air. On normal hit comboing afterwards is pretty hard (I've only ever gotten a single 5B into wiffed 5BB, but I haven't spent anytime in training mode looking for stuff so IDK), on counter hit though you can do 5CC > stuff and it's pretty fine.

Edit to expand now that I'm not at casuals: Honestly I've had really good luck with it, better than 5BB or 5CC by a long shot. You can do running normals without actually running if you input fast enough, although you get a bit of a dash so it might take a while to get used to the spacing.

Also worth noting though that 66B is not the same normal as 5BB it looks the same and has the hitbox as far as I know, but it isn't jump cancelable on hit and can't chain into anything on block.

It's not ideal or really good at all, but chaos kinda has to take what he can get.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

A Canceling

Whenever you land a lizard hit, you are allowed to gatling into any normal or jump cancel so long as you haven't used that option in the combo yet. This is essential for combos but also really useful to act as a way to reset Chaos quickly to neutral instead of being stuck in recovery. When you land a hit such as 236A, quickly push 5A or 2A depending on which one you haven't used yet. This can be used for surprised overheads or tick throws.

[Sharkkato103]

Example of surprise overheads using this:

 

66C

 

I hate to break it to you, but 66C isn't an overhead.

[Crimefighter]

It's not an overhead but 236A > whiff 5A > 66C is a combo in the corner. If you want an overhead reset you'll have to do something like whatever > 236A > whiff 5A/2A > Assualt > J.2C. 

[Nemesis]

So I gotta ask - is learning his neutral and stuff like..... insanely hard for everyone or just me? cause man I am having just a really hard time with him in neutral - no thanks to BB habits like up backing and trying to barrier .... but seriously against Linne's and other fast characters Im feeling really disarmed - AAing is BITCHIN hard Im finding my best hope is 236b or 66b but damn that timing

[Loody]

Although it's not particularly an anti air, his force function is pretty okay at dealing with jump ins from what I've tried, not one of the greatest options among the cast though.

Right now I'm having the most trouble with Gordeau and Waldstein, does anything beat out grim reaper on round start?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I hate to break it to you, but 66C isn't an overhead.

 

Damn, oh well. I figured it was too much to hope for. Still, instant j2C is not bad. I haven't really figured out how to get the Dummy to block shit properly yet so I can actually tell.

 

Has anyone figured out 22B and why it's not always consistent? It feels like sometimes the attack comes out far too late for oki.

 

It's worth noting that 66C causes some kind of weird soft knockdown. Not sure if we can abuse this for crossup gimmicks or if it's techable or anything. I've never seen another move like it.

 

 

Although it's not particularly an anti air, his force function is pretty okay at dealing with jump ins from what I've tried, not one of the greatest options among the cast though.

Right now I'm having the most trouble with Gordeau and Waldstein, does anything beat out grim reaper on round start?

 

My experience has been that Chaos simply doesn't win opening gambits. Best to just focus on backing off and getting spaced properly. I'm pretty sure Grim Reaper is very - on block.

[Crimefighter]

If you're having a really hard time anti-airing anything, you can always just standing shield. It adds recovery to your opponent's jump in so you can get a ground punish where they'd otherwise be safe. That's also probably your best hope against a character with decent assault pressure since chaos doesn't really have a good grapp (that being said if you want to tech a throw your better off inputting 2AD for a throw/2A option select, you'll still get counterhit by assaults but you might sometimes make them block 2A instead of whiffing a throw).

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I'll have to remember that. Seems like a good option.

[Nemesis]

Ive been studying that same video more and its proved quite helpful 

 

Neutral Tools to defeat and or pressure opponents 

 

http://youtu.be/rV_pUxXKD0c?t=22m28s

he uses Ahzi alot in neutral and even tho 236a is woefully bad on wiff it can be used to great effect otherwise 

 

Jumping in neutral and use of Ahzi seems to be a preferred method and Im seeing alot of personal success with it

 

J.236a > J.6236a > J.236B > J.6236b > J.214 [a]  (this requires Ahzi to be close to the opponent)

2360 dmg 
27.31 EX 

 

 

A more forgiving variant would be (and usable as an opening measure) : 

 

J.236a > J.236b > J.6236b > J.214b 

1878 dmg

19.09 EX

 

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/rV_pUxXKD0c?t=22m34s

 

Ahzi behind them pressure (lets face it - its gonna happen)

236a > 236b (push them into you) 2a > 5bb >....

 

 

http://youtu.be/rV_pUxXKD0c?t=24m33s

post zoning pressure 

 

236a > 236b (wait) 236a > 236b >214a/b > 6236a >6236b

 

 

http://youtu.be/rV_pUxXKD0c?t=25m30s

Im getting a really strong feeling that veil break is a necessary mechanic for us

 

236a > 6236a (i believe he's using this route to compensate for the other player DPing thru ahzi 214a/b pressure) delay > 236a > 6236a > 214a/b > delay > 214a/b > 236b > 22a/b(i dunno which he would use? I would guess A)  > dash in > 2a >2a > 2b > 5a > dash in grab

 

 

also for ahzi pressure / oki you can charge his 214a/b for a dual fireball effect and use of azhi relative position

 

 

a good example of this is 236a > 6236a (or 236b) > 214 [a]/ 

[RaitoninguSigma]

I tried that one combo I saw earlier

 

2A > 2B > 2C > 5C > 5C > jB > jC > j2C >2C > 6C > 236A > 236B > 214A > 214B
 

Somehow I can't get the 236B after the 236A consistently

Does anyone know how to time it properly?

[Nemesis]

I tried that one combo I saw earlier

 

2A > 2B > 2C > 5C > 5C > jB > jC > j2C >2C > 6C > 236A > 236B > 214A > 214B

 

Somehow I can't get the 236B after the 236A consistently

Does anyone know how to time it properly?

It works just fine but you gotta ham the 236a > 236b > 6236 a/b

I only know from literally mashing it out for 3-4 hours yesterday

and you can EVEN get a 214a/b at the end of that combo if you are near the corner-ish

if your 236a comes out too slowly after your 6c itll cause the 236b to wiff - HAM HAM - edit : actually in some cases a micro delay is necessary so that ahzi rises high enough for 6236b to land - this is the only part of the combo that I believe requires a delay

 

you can also start with 5bb > 5c > j.b > ...... as your starter if your poking with 5b

 

 

also dont be afraid to confirm with 2a at max range - ive tested it thoroughly and im pretty sure the combo is very stable - Ive yet to wiff it on a particular character's hurtbox 

 

Im sensing 2a max range confirm in neutral is pretty important....

[Zano.]

got the game last night and using this character cuz he looks rad cool and has a lizard friend.  I know how awful he is but I wanna use him anyway, I'll watch through the vids that were posted cuz they look super helpful.  

 

One question i had was when your lizard disappears, what relevance does that have and how does it happen/can he come back?

[Nemesis]

got the game last night and using this character cuz he looks rad cool and has a lizard friend.  I know how awful he is but I wanna use him anyway, I'll watch through the vids that were posted cuz they look super helpful.  

 

One question i had was when your lizard disappears, what relevance does that have and how does it happen/can he come back?

Ahzi is only vulnerable to attack when he is attacking and recovering from attacks - and the only effect is that he disappears briefly - but is summonable just like normal after the delay - I havent tested the exact frame data