[UNIEL] Chaos

[LordSpectreX]

His pressure during blocking honestly seems really bad to me. No overheads and you can't jump on blockstrings. He has some good uses for resets during actual hits though with j2C. You can actually combo j2C on 236A on a standing opponent, so delaying it gives you an instant overhead and a reset at the same time. Outside of actual hits though this character feels incredibly weak. Frame traps are cool and all but really not very good once people are used to them. I would gladly trade a bunch of mid frame traps for some actual mixup.

Not jumping in blockstrings is a pretty universal thing though. His pressure is fine, it's just not very threatening.

[Crimefighter]

Not sure if anyone saw my post or just didn't have anything to say about the:

 

~~~BASIC CHAOS COMBO VIDEO~~~ -By Me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJUutQFIF70 <<<< Right There

 

Just wanted a lil feedback on it so i can see what needs to be changed here and there so i can put that info in the description of the video itself. Id hate to send out the wrong info to people trying to pick Chaos up . Anywhoo I was also thinking about coming out with a Breakdown video for Chaos like about Neutral vs certain characters, not being able to use Lizard specials twice in a combo ( 5C,236A,2C,236A <<<Dat dont work ) Oki,etc etc. Theres some things I may miss with the character so i wanted to see if we could all come up with something as a group =D

 

LordSpectreX Put out some really good info on the 1st page but i know some people are more Visual. Also small error about 214A/B . They both send out one Fireball but (B) goes a bit further i believe. Holding the button while pressing A/B  makes them shoot 2 fireballs.

Feedback on video: It'd be really nice if you included a transcription of the inputs in the description or something. From a presentation standpoint since you have a lot of the same starter and filler into a different ender it might be better if you had a label for like "2C starter combos" or something if you want to keep it as a basic combo guide, if you just want it to be a video about cool looking stuff it's better to have less combos with more variety.

 

Also, related to not being able to use lizard specials twice in a combo: If you go for fireball Oki and pick up after it keep in mind that you'll need to switch strengths if you want to do more fireball oki (also there are spacings where fireballs will whiff for some reason but I can't consistanty create them in training mode so IDK why or how to avoid them)

Also also, useless piece of frame data, it takes 16 frames of holding down the button to get a fully charged fireball.

 

Also also also: When you summon lizard friend from his timeout he appears closer to you than his natural standing spot, meaning there are combos that only work if your lizard is dead when you start. I haven't found anything actually useful for it, but 2a>2b>2c>j.b>j.c>j.2c>66c>236b only works midscreen with a dead lizard if you want proof.

[LordSpectreX]

Chaos Vs Hilda is actually the hardest thing. I can even bear Chaos vs the top 3, but this matchup is an absolute joke. 

[madigawadesperate]

Chaos Vs Hilda is actually the hardest thing. I can even bear Chaos vs the top 3, but this matchup is an absolute joke. 

 

I thought it was free for hilda, I just wasn't 100% sure

So did you do anything that was effective against her? 

[Doobylover]

Even though Chaos' IW is great against zoners, if the lizard isn't by the opponent he has a seriously hard time getting in on them.

Personally, I can deal with Hilda and her shenanigans, but Vatista is whole other story. She can literally projectile you to death, and since the reflector doesn't go as far when it absorbs a projectile, you're pretty much stuck. Also, she can repeatedly throw out orbs and beams to no end.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

New combo route! I'm glad I found these. Using the lizard for something besides the ender feels so cool. I bet there are more clever things out there.

 

Damage: 3345

5BB>623A>jB>jC>j2C>2C>6C>236A>236B>623B>214 or 236C

 

Damage: 3359

5B>236A>623A>2C>5CC>delay jB>jC>j2C>2C>236B>623B>236C

 

Damage: 3006 or 3366

5BB>623A>5C>delay jB>jC>delay j2C>2C>6C>236A>236B>623B>214 or 214C

*The delays are important to let Lizard walk forward. The delay jB in particular is super important.

 

Damage: 3050/3516

5CC>623A>5B>delay 5BB>delay jB>jC>j2C>2C>6C>236A>236B>delay 623B>214 or 236C

 

 

Also here's the Super Easy Mode™ corner IW combo, works from any starter. Obviously does reduced damage. You can gatling and mash everything in this combo and it works every time from what I've seen.

 

5B>5C>2B>2C>236B>214>236C>5A whiff>Veil Off>2C>6C>IW

5A/2A>5C>5B>2B>2C>...

5C>5B>2B>2C>...

 

Probably what I would use in a tournament. This still does 3872/4242 on a 5A so it's definitely not bad.

 

Here's a version that does a good chunk more, but is still very easy. You just need to make sure to delay 2C to make sure to get the grounded knockdown. This disqualified it from Super Easy Mode qualification though, because it's definitely possible to drop it. This is actually only a tiny bit less optimal than my previous route but like 5x easier. I definitely recommend it:

 

5A>5B>5C>236A>236B>623B>214>236C>5A Whiff>Veil Off>delay 2C>IW

[Micah5725]

Thanks for the awesome Chaos tech, also are there any good resets out yet? I haven't seen anything safe to use yet after a basic combo.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Thanks for the awesome Chaos tech, also are there any good resets out yet? I haven't seen anything safe to use yet after a basic combo.

 

Chaos has the classic puppet cross-up tech with 2S>22A/B>B+C. I like to use a delayed j2C in the middle of combos for an overhead reset sometimes. You can also do ambiguous high-low with jump forward 236A>j2C or land 2B. His B+C crosses up at a surpisingly long distance.

[LordSpectreX]

Jump > Assault > 236A > j.B(whiff) > Crossup 2B is quite dirty lol.

 

So I think I came up with a pretty solid corner mixup. I don't have another controller so it's hard to test certain things, but it should be reasonably mash safe and crossup. This is very untested and just really putting down theory, so be careful. But I feel we need to work together to make this character strong, so I don't mind sharing.

 

Step 1: String into 22B. You have to be unpredictable with this. 22B should have about 35F of "inaction". You don't need to be unpredictable to stop them mashing throughout this entire duration, but enough that they don't just plain hit you. So while you're being unpredictable, try to also not do it at 5A range. 5C, 5CC, 2C, 236A are the best ones to do this from, having 28frames of blockstun.

 

Step 2: React. At this point the 22B is in place. If they didn't mash you out instantly, they now have a few options. 1 is to jump, which will get sniped by a rising j.C. 2 is to mash, in this case, you can block, and the 22B will reappear and hit them. They can late mash. This will catch you baiting something early on before switching to pressure. Avoided by blocking again, or not baiting anything early on and going straight for pressure. Finally, they can simply block, which is the result you want and should be trying to get through conditioning..

 

Step 3: Confirm the 22B version used. There's two specific delays to 22B. One is when Azhi is "inside" the opponent, in which he'll do a long startup 22B. If Azhi is outside the opponent's hurtbox, it'll do a much faster version. Doing 236A>22B will always give the close version. You can react to it by pressing B+C when the lizard appears, but it helps to just know the timing before it happens, especially since it's a bit hard to see the lizard.

 

Step 4: Now you should either be blocking or doing a pressure string while the lizard is hidden. I like doing 5C>5BB as it gives the perfect timing for me when it's close and 5C has the furthest range. It also combos and allows you to do a little bait once you've done 22B to confirm if there's mashing. A lot of this stuff is going to be fairly character specific. You generally want to be aggressive against Seth since his range is short and he can 623A or teleport out. Against Gordeau, you might just want to wait and react to what he does.

 

Step 5: Lizard reappears, at this moment, you roll, the 22B pushes them out of the corner at the last moment and allows you to enter it, you can then follow up with a 2B low for the crossup. You can also do it very slightly earlier, and not have the roll pass through. Very hard to see, seems quite strong. What's nice about it is that if you get to this part, then you're set even if they do block it, you can continue the blockstring, go for a tick throw, whatever. The downside to this is that they're out of the corner. So it's not a vortex. (unless you hit them without the crossup, which is still possible, it acts as a really good frame trap setup as well). This should also make the standard j.2C mixup after 22B stronger. 

[MikhailLuca]

So... I got this game two days ago and I'm learning Chaos. Woo fun, love playing low tier hype.

For some reason, the clause of 'you can only use the same Lizard special once per string' gets ignored when you do Smart Steer AKA A Mash. 

For example if your opponent blocks Stuff>236A>22A>2B>2A>22A Activates>Smart Steer you'd be able to get 236A again. Not sure if this is of any use or if I'm repeating what someone said before but... Sorry. ;-;


Also, I've been getting a lot of mileage off of Air Assault over the opponent 236A>Land>5B>2B>2C>5CC>j.B>j.C>j.2C>214B[Charge] oki. and yeah... it's how I get my hits in because I don't know hot to do real mixup.

[JyakotuKurayami]

Decided that Chaos will be my main in UNIEL, since he's most similar to Carl, just more low tier. Is the basic gameplay plan the same with Chaos, that is to say, get the opponent sandwiched between you and his lizard to obtain maximum damage?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Decided that Chaos will be my main in UNIEL, since he's most similar to Carl, just more low tier. Is the basic gameplay plan the same with Chaos, that is to say, get the opponent sandwiched between you and his lizard to obtain maximum damage?

 

Not really. There's no real benefit to having them sandwiched. In fact that can potentially make combos drop. Your goal usually is to keep the Lizard between you and the opponent during neutral. Imagine if Nirvana was actually like, incredibly annoying and fast in neutral. You can actually win at fullscreen with Chaos unlike Carl. If you can confirm it the Lizard is capable of packing a decent punch with combos without Chaos when you're fullscreen.

 

 

New technique that's useful for Chaos. I call it Shield Moving. Basically you need to hold a button to make the Lizard starting walking. This can be a pain in tense neutral situations. To counter this, push 4/1D+Button and release D if you don't want to actually Shield. This way Chaos will Shield briefly then the lizard will start walking without you having to expose Chaos to attacks at all. If you don't want to Shield, you can also do this with Stance doing a slow slide input such as 5D->[button]. The stance gives Chaos a tiny moment of vulnerability, the Shield requires you to block for a brief moment. 

 

Important: If you want to use the A button for movement be careful with this technique. A+D is how you grab so if you input it too fast you'll get a throw whiff. Honestly not a huge deal because throws recover about as fast as Stance anyway. But if you're dealing with close-range neutral situations you definitely don't want to stance or throw.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Double post but holy shit, IW does a fuckton of damage off raw 6C if you input the IW before the 6C hits. Seriously it does 5001 in GRD vorpal on 6C>IW if you input it rapidly. I have no idea why because the 6C still seems to hit first. I can only imagine the activation of IW before the hit is affecting the damage proration.

 

This is super legit 6C punish tech. It may be patched out soon lol...

[chemical ninja]

Hey everyone I don't main Chaos but i do sub him and i like him alot but i need some help the Hilda MU is really hurting me a lot. Its like i got no tools to get in when Hilda spaces me out and the B+C move does not have enough invincibility to make him go through some moves and Azhi comes out way to slow. So any ideas?

My tips from playing would be like ctrlaltwtf said always keep the lizard out and move it foward towards hilda. it might not always be effective in getting a hit but it will scare them from doing a lot of things if used right. The hard part about that is when your lizard dies and you have to get him back in safely . Personally I feel lizard is the best thing you have in the neutral.also b+c or roll is actually really good because it surprisingly goes so far and is invincible for a bit, if you think they are going to throw something out you can roll through it.from what I have seen roll goes through most of her moves at startup and closes the distance just dont rely on it too much as it will get you punished heavily when baited. Hope I helped.

[MikhailLuca]

Fun fact, even if Lizard is broken you can still smart steer and get Lizard specials out which will immediately revive the Lizard. Woo

[bellreisa]

Double post but holy shit, IW does a fuckton of damage off raw 6C if you input the IW before the 6C hits. Seriously it does 5001 in GRD vorpal on 6C>IW if you input it rapidly. I have no idea why because the 6C still seems to hit first. I can only imagine the activation of IW before the hit is affecting the damage proration.

 

This is super legit 6C punish tech. It may be patched out soon lol...

 

this is the unscale glitch. works like F/UC's where projectile causes super to unscale. also applies to akatsuki. may be patched out soon

[Mr Oso]

So right now my biggest matchup issue is Wald. The fact that he has a projectile only make it that much harder to get things started on him. I dont think ive played enough MU's to drop any knowledge but man im pretty stuck on this one. Dont think ive beat a Wald yet and i dont feel like im being outplayed for the most part (Gasp is this what its like playing low tier ?!?!).
 
Overall Impression: This character looks so got dam cooooooooool. . . . but hes pretty dam bad .
 
For neutral so far ive been trying to keep Azhi like O---A------C for most MUs    O=Opponent A=Azhi C=Chaos
I think of it this way Azhi stays close enough to spook people and make them re think doing things like throwing a projectile,dashing in,etc. While Chaos can use this advantage to either begin pressure with Azhi or hold his ground and stop dash/jump ins with normals be it Dash B or air to air. Sorta like how guile may or may not sonic boom you may or may not input a move with Azhi. Mental stuff yah know? Using your tools at your disposal to the best of your ability. Unfortunately you really cant afford to whiff a move with Azhi cuz the recovery is equivalent(maybe worse) to that of whiffing a normal making you a sitting duck. Example: Up backing and inputting 236B thinking they will approach from the air instead Linne dashes straight at you giving zero f*cks and you eat all the dmg  (Omg shes so dam fast).So make sure to do your best not to whiff any moves with Azhi. If it happens full screen depending on the character youll be ok but still. . . . just to be safe .

 

Working on frame traps. I tend to pretty much get my hits from frametraps,Assault j2C,and random Azhi hits. The lack of mixup is painful but you can really make the most out of just mixing up what options you do have. I think there was something about 22A/B oki on the last page ill have to check that out may be really useful. Also 214A/B is really good for approaching if Lizard dood doesnt get hit.

So ive pretty much been trying to keep a strong ground game and keep my defense up as high as possible.I find most of time sitting in a corner blocking seeing a jump in and rolling out . My biggest thing right now is being stuck in positions where i cant find a good spot to get Mr Lizard out without being punished for it.
 
Is the best way to work my way in with what normals i have and blockstring him out? Its what ive been doing since  22C cant really punish much from full screen and id rather save the meter for when i finally do get a hit. Sometimes yah gotta blow the meter though i guess .

 

Stuff You may or may not know:Wald cant duck 623A/B. Fireballs beat Seth and Hydes projectile. Merk 214A goes through  Chaos 6C.

 

tldr How da heck do yah beat Wald?!?!

[ZDH513]

Hey everyone stopped by to say thank you all for the advice on Chaos, it really helped now the Hilda MU isn't so bad but its pretty rough lol. Also I played a really long set like 3 hours with a Seth player and found that cr.A actually AA some moves of course it isn't reliable but i just wanted to let you all know that it might have some AA properties and counter poke wish i knew the frame data but thats all i got.

[Zano.]

if you want frame data then here u go

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PCbvhv9PJhfpjTpMoKFV90GqRYVTs2Xkhpwl5CbJnko/edit?pli=1#gid=0

[ZDH513]

So I was playing around with Chaos a bit and found this neat cross under combo, i used it a couple of times an it does work with some success but it might not be worth the meter but I will post it anyway to see what you all think.

The trick is to use Chaos B+C roll to cross under the opponent this combo only works midscreen and can lead to a nice mixup/reset situation 

 

2A>2B>2C>5CC>J.B>J.C>236C>B+C>6C>5C>236B (2482/2722)

 

After the 236B if you just wait a little bit the opponent might air tech above you then you can B+C right under them in time for a cross under. Alternatively if you miss the timing the B+C will just make Chaos roll away from the opponent and you will be safe. 

[Tigre]

Hey, if one of you Chaos players could help work on the Chaos page for the wiki (http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Under_Night_In-Birth/Chaos) it'd be a huge help, page is very empty right now!

[Doobylover]

Ooh, I'd love to help! How do I get started?

[Tigre]

check out the wiki thread in the main uniel subforum, bell requires manual activation for accounts. the rest is documented in that thred as well.

[X_Sword]

on knockdown, meaty j.2C jump cancel j.2C slight delay 236.Ais a good bait tool. Opponents tend to try and get momentum with their light buttons in between the delay and stand for some reason. Its probably because they can try to hit-confirm into a combo between the delay. you shouldn't throw it out all the time especially since some of the characters in game have some good buttons to follow up with for damage

[NinjaTB]

So I haven't seen many tips on Chaos' Oki setups so I thought i'd post some things I've been working on in the lab.

So far all of these setups come at the end of his j.2C loop ( j.B > j.C > j.2C >... ) and they can be chained into another j.2C loop into another oki, similar to doing a cammy/ibuki vortex in sf4. However you need to remember you can only do each of Azhi's moves once.

Also for the j.214A/B you'll need to special cancel it off of j.2C. The lower to the ground the better.

Opponent Neutral/Downback recovers:

...> j.214B (hold). jump forward > j.B > 2B

(Crosses up. For some reason setting the training dummy to auto recover and crouch results in it getting fuzzy guarded, however it still works on crouching opponents)

...> j.214A (hold). jump forward > j.B > 2B

(Use this in the corner. Does not cross up in the corner)

...> j.214B (hold). assault forward > j.2C > 2B

(Does not cross up)

...> j.214A/B (hold). jump forward > j.236A > j.B > 2B --Working on a more reliable set up--

(Depending on how high you are, how far away Azhi is, and whether you use j.236A while Azhi is still in the air or not after j.214A/B, judges whether or not this can cross up.)

...> j.214A/B (hold). jump forward > j.236A > j.2C > 2B

(Does not cross up)

...> 2C> 22B > jump forward > j.B --Thanks for the idea CtrlAltWTF and Abyss--

(I don't believe this can cross up, but I might be wrong...)

Opponent Back Recovers:

...> j.214B (hold). assault forward > j.B > 2C

...> 2C> 22B > assault forward > j.B > 2C