[UNIEL] News & Gameplay Discussion

[Icekin]

Hilda will either get a lot of buffs or a lot of nerfs, game developers called her a really strong character and while she is she dies on opponents who can get in 

I think it's the other way around, I would expect her to not change much at all. She's a character who put all her eggs in the same basket, having an excellent zoning and ranged mixup that's very hard to get past, but no options at all if they do. It's kinda hard to make adjustments on a character like that.

[Fatal Seabass]

Such exciting news! I'd love to see what patch ideas you guys have in mind for some characters. I expect the obvious nerfs to Gordeau but good balancing doesn't always require brutal nerfs. I just really want Akatsuki to see some love. 

[Icekin]

It's definitely not that bad. They need nerfs, but nothing nearly as severe as you say.

 

If I had to take away one move from Gordeau to make life easier (and I'm not suggesting that, just saying hypothetically), Grim Reaper would be a distant third, tied with Aim Opening. Assimilation and Mortal Slide are the real meat of this guy's power.

 

The top tiers do need to be nerfed, I'm sure everyone agrees on that, but I don't want to see them crippled either. Merkava's flight/dive needs to be changed, but otherwise he only needs small adjustments to be fair, imo.

[Tong]

Giving proper, versatile and more viable options/tools to all characters, with varying strength or usefulness depending on the character >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "NERF TOPS, BUFF LOWS"

[Icekin]

What you described is part of what people refer to when they ask for balance changes. Nerf and Buff are just catch-all terms for adjustments and changes that enhance or diminish a character's effectiveness with fairness as a goal.

[LaowPing]

Giving proper, versatile and more viable options/tools to all characters, with varying strength or usefulness depending on the character >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "NERF TOPS, BUFF LOWS"

You basically just said the exact same thing twice except the first part had more words

Sent from my ZTE-X500 using Tapatalk 2

[madigawadesperate]

I think it's the other way around, I would expect her to not change much at all. She's a character who put all her eggs in the same basket, having an excellent zoning and ranged mixup that's very hard to get past, but no options at all if they do. It's kinda hard to make adjustments on a character like that.

 

I agree but maybe 5a being a little faster (hopefully 6 frames) would do her a world of wonders especially since she can get frame trapped to death

[Poultrygeist]

Thoughts on balance:

 

Merkava needs nerfs, but they need to be careful about it too.

Akatsuki, Seth, and Chaos just need blanket buffs.

Gordeau probably needs more nerfs than Merkava.

 

Thoughts on characters:

 

Phonon looks cool, i'll probably give her a fair chance.

Since this is just first location test, I have to wonder if we'll get more characters later, or if this will be like an Arcana Heart extension where 1 additional character is fine.

 

Call me bias if you will but I agree with you on Merk, he's a delicate kind of character.  If they take away what makes him good he's going to be pretty weird.  What would you say needs to go specifically?  I mean I know a lot of people compare Merk to Faust, but every attempt to nerf Faust just backfires lol.

[Mefistopheles]

You quoted something where I mentioned 3 guys and just said "him". Which one?

Ups. I was talking about Seth.

[madigawadesperate]

you know what would be great? Not allowing merkava to go into fly instantly 

[Tong]

What you described is part of what people refer to when they ask for balance changes. Nerf and Buff are just catch-all terms for adjustments and changes that enhance or diminish a character's effectiveness with fairness as a goal.

There are essentially 2 ways of balancing characters in a game.

 

1- Without adding elements (changed moves/systems):

By balancing each tools the character already has, you can adjust how weak or strong they can effectively be in a given area. For example, you can change the damage scaling on stronger moves to make them less rewarding, you can add new combo routes to improve a character's potential to convert off random hits, you can add new properties or advantages to certains moves and some tweaking on the systems and mechanics...

It's child play and very easy to balance this way since, the developers have more than enough data to know should be buffed/nerfed/tweaked or not. Many games do this approach. The trade-off is that in the long run you end up with a game that, well, still plays the same as before but with new things, and the players might get bored and get that déjà-vu feeling.

 

2- Adding elements (new moves or systems)

By adding new tools for the characters you can make them more versatile, stronger in their own areas and less likely to have a terrible matchup.  And NO! This doesnt mean Hilda needs a DP, or that Akatsuki needs a Yuzuriha-like teleport. I'm talking about elements that improve their gamestyle, while adding other elements to give them real answers to disadvantageous situations. If done right you will add more depth, variety and uniqueness to each character and that's what makes a game feel great (imo).

You cannot add new elements without balancing the previous ones before though, because if you add new elements without first balancing your, already unbalanced game, you will just end up with another unbalanced wreck (see BBCT-> BBCS1).

However Under Night in-Birth is already a relatively mature game and has come a long way since the crazy infinites from the earlier iterations, and I believe UNIEL is ready for some more significant changes.

 

I personally think there should be more useful mechanics and systems, but who knows how the new Veil-Off is going to affect everything right?

 

So anyways, what I described earlier was method #2 while method #1 is what you understood earlier.

[Akiro]

who is that girl with a whip, i want her playable D: 

HOW DID YOU DO THAT

[LaowPing]

Any chance for english voices?

[Oniros]

Maybe ASW giving them advice to make their game more marketable includes a full on story mode to fluff up the future console release... full with open spots on the character select for 2 or 3 800 yen characters.

 

Character challenges/trials and a proper tutorial wouldn't hurt either.

Character challenges, a reworked story mode, multi-battle lobbies + the re-balancing I would gladly pay for as a new retail disc. Anything below that is pushing it. A good compromise would be for ASW to help French Bread into bringing it to PS4 featuring crossplay and making the PS3 patch paid DLC. In that case I agree that a free patch only wouldn't help cover development costs.

[madigawadesperate]

HOW DID YOU DO THAT

 

VOODOO 

[Icekin]

There are essentially 2 ways of balancing characters in a game.

 

1- Without adding elements (changed moves/systems):

By balancing each tools the character already has, you can adjust how weak or strong they can effectively be in a given area. For example, you can change the damage scaling on stronger moves to make them less rewarding, you can add new combo routes to improve a character's potential to convert off random hits, you can add new properties or advantages to certains moves and some tweaking on the systems and mechanics...

It's child play and very easy to balance this way since, the developers have more than enough data to know should be buffed/nerfed/tweaked or not. Many games do this approach. The trade-off is that in the long run you end up with a game that, well, still plays the same as before but with new things, and the players might get bored and get that déjà-vu feeling.

 

2- Adding elements (new moves or systems)

By adding new tools for the characters you can make them more versatile, stronger in their own areas and less likely to have a terrible matchup.  And NO! This doesnt mean Hilda needs a DP, or that Akatsuki needs a Yuzuriha-like teleport. I'm talking about elements that improve their gamestyle, while adding other elements to give them real answers to disadvantageous situations. If done right you will add more depth, variety and uniqueness to each character and that's what makes a game feel great (imo).

You cannot add new elements without balancing the previous ones before though, because if you add new elements without first balancing your, already unbalanced game, you will just end up with another unbalanced wreck (see BBCT-> BBCS1).

However Under Night in-Birth is already a relatively mature game and has come a long way since the crazy infinites from the earlier iterations, and I believe UNIEL is ready for some more significant changes.

 

I personally think there should be more useful mechanics and systems, but who knows how the new Veil-Off is going to affect everything right?

 

I agree, this is all well and true.

 

So anyways, what I described earlier was method #2 while method #1 is what you understood earlier.

 

Except for this part. Perhaps you inferred it from something I said, but it was not my contention. New tools and mechanics are always nice to get with balance updates.

[ChexGuy]

I dunno about you but I think Akatsuki with a teleport would be pretty sick

[Poultrygeist]

you know what would be great? Not allowing merkava to go into fly instantly 

Sounds like a compromise!  He loses safe flight and IOH but we buff everything else.  Deal?  : D

[madigawadesperate]

Sounds like a compromise!  He loses safe flight and IOH but we buff everything else.  Deal?  : D

 

Sure, right when hilda get's a dp that's +15 on block and sends the opponent mid screen 

[Poultrygeist]

And in the process she gets her projectiles nerfed into 1.1 Ramlethal status.  Compromise!  

 

But back to seriousness (kinda).  The only track record for this game's balancing that we have to go by is UNI to UNIEL, but I wasn't really paying much attention to the game when it was just UNI.  Anyone care to inform me (and anyone else I guess) on what all was changed?

[madigawadesperate]

And in the process she gets her projectiles nerfed into 1.1 Ramlethal status.  Compromise!  

 

But back to seriousness (kinda).  The only track record for this game's balancing that we have to go by is UNI to UNIEL, but I wasn't really paying much attention to the game when it was just UNI.  Anyone care to inform me (and anyone else I guess) on what all was changed?

 

Hyde had a tod, linne had an infinite and something with seth being really stupid 

[Lolimaiko]

And in the process she gets her projectiles nerfed into 1.1 Ramlethal status.  Compromise!  

 

But back to seriousness (kinda).  The only track record for this game's balancing that we have to go by is UNI to UNIEL, but I wasn't really paying much attention to the game when it was just UNI.  Anyone care to inform me (and anyone else I guess) on what all was changed?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ei21bCMuwQ#t=1m42s

 

Everything great (or bad depending on how you look at it) could be accurately be described with this segment.  I'd play this version for an hour then never again.

[LaowPing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ei21bCMuwQ#t=1m42s

 

Everything great (or bad depending on how you look at it) could be accurately be described with this segment.  I'd play this version for an hour then never again.

Those combos.. they're so... so..

 

*sniff*

 

Beautiful.... But that's about it. They look cool but I noticed at some point you end up having each hit do 10 damage so you have a super long combo only for the sake of having a super long combo. Kind of glad they changed it.

[Poultrygeist]

Well I probably only speak for myself but I'm happy to have never played that version of the game lol.  I doubt UNIELST will be that radical a change but I do wonder if they will try to shift the focus of the game again.  

[Tari]

From UNI to UNIEL there were a lot of changes to things like infintes, instant overheads, VO, etc. All good stuff.
 

Hilda will either get a lot of buffs or a lot of nerfs, game developers called her a really strong character and while she is she dies on opponents who can get in

Just to clarify, I was talking about what happens to her in story mode, rather than how she plays as a character.

 

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I'm trying to stay away from getting involved in any discussion of tiers or potential character changes, because they always devolve into mindless bickering, with more ill-informed opinions being tossed around than any actual meaningful or thoughtful discussion.