Jump to content
Tigre

[UNIEL] Under Night In-Birth Q&A Thread

Recommended Posts

So I was toying around in training the other day and discovered that you can reverse beat into auto combo and use the same normal twice in one string (as long as it's part of auto combo). Pretty sure proration destroys any combo applications, but could it be useful for anything? (sorry if it's already been asked)

 

Yep. Gordo can do 2A5B5AA which is pretty common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was toying around in training the other day and discovered that you can reverse beat into auto combo and use the same normal twice in one string (as long as it's part of auto combo). Pretty sure proration destroys any combo applications, but could it be useful for anything? (sorry if it's already been asked)

 

For Vatista, it's incredibly useful for creating space especially if you're holding your other two buttons for Crystal pressure.  The same goes for Carmine's traps, although everyone benefits from their auto combo in some way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was toying around in training the other day and discovered that you can reverse beat into auto combo and use the same normal twice in one string (as long as it's part of auto combo). Pretty sure proration destroys any combo applications, but could it be useful for anything? (sorry if it's already been asked)

I believe a less obvious bonus to using auto-combo routes on block is that they can have longer cancel windows than the normals they use. Sometimes things like 5A > 5B won't be possible if you wait too long after the 5A, but 5A > 5AA may still work in that same window.

I'll admit I've never thoroughly tested it (it's one of the many things I just assume to be true), but that's the general consensus around here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The devs streams testing stuff are dead since ASW become the publisher about UNIB? i really like those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The devs streams testing stuff are dead since ASW become the publisher about UNIB? i really like those.

 

They did a stream shortly after announcing UNIST but yeah. Now that they have a publisher, the things they could say and/or show was pretty limited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They did a stream shortly after announcing UNIST but yeah. Now that they have a publisher, the things they could say and/or show was pretty limited.

Well im okay with that, just to keep improving the game and adds more chars, any words about improve backgrounds stages because...they sucks lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had no interest in this game for years, but now suddenly I kind of want to try it out. I played one round at the arcade, and it seemed decent enough.

 

Maybe a tall order, but does anybody know if the new version has any changes drastic enough to make the console version not worth messing around with? I really hate having to relearn things. I'd want to use someone whose bnbs are relatively unchanged, if such a character exists. The combos seem like they can get pretty long, so a "Mu's cr.c is no longer jump cancellable" situation would be a big deal breaker. I'd like to trend toward someone low execution anyway, but I often wind up liking unconventional characters.

 

I've tried looking at chang logs and whatnot, but it's hard to get a sense of what's what without having really played it myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some changes, sure, but none of them really change how you play a character, so you might as well start practicing now. The only exceptions might be Yuzuriha, Akatsuki and Seth, but that's because they got nerfed/buffed, not because they got some insane new tech that you have to learn from scratch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had no interest in this game for years, but now suddenly I kind of want to try it out. I played one round at the arcade, and it seemed decent enough.

 

Maybe a tall order, but does anybody know if the new version has any changes drastic enough to make the console version not worth messing around with? I really hate having to relearn things. I'd want to use someone whose bnbs are relatively unchanged, if such a character exists. The combos seem like they can get pretty long, so a "Mu's cr.c is no longer jump cancellable" situation would be a big deal breaker. I'd like to trend toward someone low execution anyway, but I often wind up liking unconventional characters.

 

I've tried looking at chang logs and whatnot, but it's hard to get a sense of what's what without having really played it myself.

It would help a lot to play console version. the changes they receive are not going to confuse you. it can only help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm curious as to how the shield mechanic works in reducing blockstun and letting you punish moves.

From what I've tested you have 2 Shields Blue Shield which costs 0 meter unless you're holding it for 30 frames outside of blockstun reduces blockstun by 3 frames on the ground and 6 in the air.

Then you have Green Shield which costs 10 meter and increases blockstun by X amount and pushes your opponent away.

So why does Green Shield which increases blockstun work as a way to punish merkava's 236C which is normally -2 but becomes -5 (or at least it seems to because I can punish with Hyde's 623A when doing it properly)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must have done something wrong with my testing, I had Merkava run up and 5A me and I would hold block and tap shield while I'm in blockstun and it would extend my blockstun for the entire animation of the green shield flash.  What's going on when that happens?

I'm holding up the entire time and until the green shield animation ends I'm unable to jump so there it looks like my blockstun is increased as opposed to just blocking it normally or using blue shield in when I'm able to jump and then slightly earlier with the blue shield.

Edited by Monokeros

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Green shield is the same as blue shield. You're just starting your shield after you already blocked 5A, which means that you're stuck in a shield state since you aren't blocking any follow-up moves. It's the same as doing a blue shield in neutral and having the opponent not hit you. You're stuck in that shield animation for a while.

 

The only real difference between being stuck in a blue shield state versus being stuck in a green shield state is that you can still switchblock green shields, while you're locked into blocking high or low with a blue shield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Green shield is the same as blue shield. You're just starting your shield after you already blocked 5A, which means that you're stuck in a shield state since you aren't blocking any follow-up moves. It's the same as doing a blue shield in neutral and having the opponent not hit you. You're stuck in that shield animation for a while.

 

The only real difference between being stuck in a blue shield state versus being stuck in a green shield state is that you can still switchblock green shields, while you're locked into blocking high or low with a blue shield.

Doesn't using green shield cause some pushback as opposed to Blue shield and cost 10 meter to perform? I tested Linne's 5B and if I blue shield it she remains in throw range but if I do a delayed greenshield she's pushed out of range and her throw whiffs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't using green shield cause some pushback as opposed to Blue shield and cost 10 meter to perform? I tested Linne's 5B and if I blue shield it she remains in throw range but if I do a delayed greenshield she's pushed out of range and her throw whiffs

Yes, there are some slight differences between the two types of shields. I was only talking about the differences between being locked into a shield state, not the actual effects of each type of shield. Sorry for the confusion!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you not instantly lose if you get hit in the corner with Carmine? I just started playing this and I'm insanely bad, and any time I fight Orie or (bottom tier) AKatsuki online I want to kill myself because one clean hit means the round is over 90% of the time. Even on a good connection I can't see to do anything against Orie's straight thrust special. I know command grab and qcb are allegedly reversals, but they have never once worked for me. Blocking is so weird in this game, block stun never seems to be short enough for me to do anything.

 

[edit] was just handily perfected by two different orie players in a row, please tell me what to do against that move, it seems like the best move in any fighting game ever. It's like if Yun could activate genei jin off ex dash punch, and also ex dash punch was free.

Edited by Devdan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you not instantly lose if you get hit in the corner with Carmine? I just started playing this and I'm insanely bad, and any time I fight Orie or (bottom tier) AKatsuki online I want to kill myself because one clean hit means the round is over 90% of the time. Even on a good connection I can't see to do anything against Orie's straight thrust special. I know command grab and qcb are allegedly reversals, but they have never once worked for me. Blocking is so weird in this game, block stun never seems to be short enough for me to do anything.

 

[edit] was just handily perfected by two different orie players in a row, please tell me what to do against that move, it seems like the best move in any fighting game ever. It's like if Yun could activate genei jin off ex dash punch, and also ex dash punch was free.

Well, who do you use? I know Carmine is a pain in the butt when he gets started  but you really can't let him get started on stuff. Akatsuki is like bottom tier, and you can't mash against Orie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only Carmine's EX command grab, done with the C button at a cost of 100 meter, is invincible. His other moves aren't. You also have Veil Off as an option though.
Akatsuki has very low range and slow move speed. Your normals with Carmine far outrange his, and you have projectiles and puddles to keep him out. It's not all about zoning him, you can of course go in once he's forced to block a pinwheel or something else, but you shouldn't let him in for free. Remember that the reason he's low tier is not at all to do with his pressure, mixup or damage. It's the fact that he's so easily outranged and kept out that makes him awful, and that he can't get good knockdowns midscreen. If you let him in easily, he'll seem like a really good character.

As for Orie, her Divine Thrust is not as amazing as it looks. It's a great move, yeah, but it's quite minus on block, so anytime you block one, you're free to start pressure. If she's too far for A/B moves, tag her with 2C and go from there. That move is also not projectile invulnerable, so any 6B you throw out will stop her dead in her tracks. When she's standing over a puddle, you can take advantage of that with 623, Force Function, or 22B to keep her scared to recklessly move or DT in. Again your normals outrange hers, and she can't thrust past pinwheel or 6B, so keep her at bay, then go in when she's scared.

Edited by Icekin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mainly use Carmine, and Linne. I know Akatsuki is easy to keep out, but not "get a perfect every time" easy. If I spend half the round chucking 6b at him, I'm inviting him to kill me in 2 hits. It just seems like against players who know combos my only option is "never get hit. not even once". And that seems like a tall order. Also, pinwheel's hitbox makes no sense and spends way too much time being visible on screen without actually being able to hit.

Can you use veil off to get out of pressure though? I never even though of that. I don't really understand all the mechanics in this game yet. I literally just realized yesterday that you can't block in air. I baited a Vatista into doing her flash kick, died anyway, got super mad and went into training mode to see what moves of hers are air unblockable, and realized...oh, all moves are. How does the barrier work, someone must've made a primer on that. It seems to break really easily. Wish this game had a tutorial.

 

Also, I can't be the only person who has an issue with overlapping inputs in this game? Sometimes I'll try to do a dash in attack with Linne into qcb b, and instead I get hcb which does not combo. I feel like it would've made more sense to make qcb a down down input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no real tutorial for the game, but there are various resources for learning how the system itself works, if that's what you're looking for. There's the technical thread in this forum, as well as a few video sources (no links on hand, sorry) that cover that type of information. You may be able to find one on Youtube by searching for the JP subbed UNIEL beginner video.

 

That aside, for inputs there's not much to do other than to find ways to either clean them up or avoid the potential of overlapped inputs. Generally it's best to just go back to neutral before attempting any other motions, especially in the case of a possible HCB/HCF overlap, as the game allows you to skip the first directional input in those and still register the move. This is actually a pretty common issue with people who are blocking low and then try to assault, as it often ends up as [1]236D, which is interpreted as an IW.

 

VO is most certainly a reversal option. It's not the fastest, but it's quite good for what it is. While it's easy to bait on wakeup, the benefits you gain from hitting with it are usually worth the risk, as long as you understand its use in terms of game flow. Successfully hitting with it nets you a grd crushed opponent, extra grd, increased grd gain rate, and higher damage. You obviously get all of those aside from the grd crushed opponent if you whiff the VO as well, so you may occasionally see someone do a full-screen VO or a VO after a knockback (not a combo'd VO, which is used to strip the opponent's vorpal) just to get control of the vorpal cycle.

 

Shielding is a mix between an IB and a barrier, and doesn't really match either concept at all. You gain reduced blockstun, increased pushback, and a block of grd for each successful shield. For each failed one, you get locked into a shield state (which can only be cancelled with a CS), can potentially be grd crushed, lose grd if whiffing green shields, and get stuck blocking high or low if using a blue shield. Shielding is required to block air-to-air normals. It's pretty much not required anywhere else, but is very useful for punishing opponents when they use certain moves or if they attempt to use jump-in attacks. After having any air normals shielded (not specials and not ground normals), opponents are subject to an extended landing recovery period and cannot perform any more moves until they land.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got the game last week, and just played a few people I know online to get a feel for the characters to see who I liked best. So far I'm liking Yuzuhira, Vatista and Hyde. I have some high level questions for each of them along with some general questions about the game so I'm including them in one post. If there are any questions that would be better to ask in character discussion feel free to say.

Yuzuhira

  • So apparently a bunch of her moves are unsafe. How do you space effectively if she has a bunch of -10 or less on her longer reaching moves? Just try to get them on the tip of the attack?
  • Is 236 A/B good for spacing because of it's super long reach?
  • Does her jump slash special (I think it's 214 A/B) good to use outside combos?
  • What's the main benefit of using her stance after specials? For more mix-ups? What are the best moves to use on stance? Is it only safe to pull out stance on hit or it alright to do on block?

Vatistia

  • How do you use her unique charge moves correctly ([6]4 and [8]2) during a match? Unlike [2]8 or [4]6 it's hard to do in neutral since you can't zone effectively since you aren't blocking when preparing the weird charge moves.

Hyde

  • Since Hyde doesn't have a standing overhead outside Assault what are his better ways of mixing up? Normals into throw? FireBall followups? Air attacks?

Other

  • In general, what's the best way to use meter? (I guess ideally for the above 3 characters I mentioned?)
  • I was watching a video that was explaining the system mechanics. So you can chain/confirm any normal into most normals? Is this good for both blockstrings and combos?
  • In general what's the best use for Grid Meter? Getting more Super Meter, for continuing combos, or something else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got the game last week, and just played a few people I know online to get a feel for the characters to see who I liked best. So far I'm liking Yuzuhira, Vatista and Hyde. I have some high level questions for each of them along with some general questions about the game so I'm including them in one post. If there are any questions that would be better to ask in character discussion feel free to say.

Yuzuriha

  • So apparently a bunch of her moves are unsafe. How do you space effectively if she has a bunch of -10 or less on her longer reaching moves? Just try to get them on the tip of the attack?

Yuzu's battous (236x) are minus, but that doesn't make them unsafe. She can use several of them in the same stance, so it's risky for your opponent to just immediately dash after blocking one. It's a move you usually only use at range too, where -10 is not that bad. You can cancel the stance with D, but I think there's also a way to make recovery even shorter by canceling a blocked 236 into a short slash and then D (so for example, 236A > B (whiff) > D). Someone confirm/deny/explain better.
 

Is 236 A/B good for spacing because of it's super long reach?

Yes, very.

Does her jump slash special (I think it's 214 A/B) good to use outside combos?

Maybe, but its use is situational and hard to do.  I rarely see it, and when I do it's never that great.

What's the main benefit of using her stance after specials? For more mix-ups? What are the best moves to use on stance? Is it only safe to pull out stance on hit or it alright to do on block?

If you hold down a button after using a special, you can then input another special with another button to cancel into it. For example, 236B (hold down B) then 236A will do the two slashes one after the other. If you do 236B, cancel stance then 236A, it will be much slower. This is a simple example with much better applications, but you get the idea. You can do it on block at range any time, it's one of yuzu's greatest strengths.

 

 

Vatista

How do you use her unique charge moves correctly ([6]4 and [8]2) during a match? Unlike [2]8 or [4]6 it's hard to do in neutral since you can't zone effectively since you aren't blocking when preparing the weird charge moves.

[6]4 and [8]2 are intentionally hard to use, there's no way around it. You cannot block while charging a beam. You can however use your other move animations, such as crystals or the ball projectile to charge a beam on top. If you hold down and forward, you can charge forward without moving. It's easier to charge if you alternate projectiles; If you do [4]6, as soon as you hit 6, you are charging a beam. When you launch that beam, as soon as you hit 4, you're charging a ball. You can go back and forth like that.
As for [8]2, you have to charge it during a jump, or during a long attack animation, such as j.C, 66C, Chain Shift, etc. 

 

Since Hyde doesn't have a standing overhead outside Assault what are his better ways of mixing up? Normals into throw? FireBall followups? Air attacks?

He does have a standing overhead; his FF, when charged, is a high. It doesn't combo unless you have CS though. His mixup is indeed a mix of staggers, assaults, projectiles and grabs.

 

In general, what's the best way to use meter? (I guess ideally for the above 3 characters I mentioned?)

That depends on the character and matchup. For characters without a solid reversals like Chaos or Hilda, it is good to keep 100 meter on hand to Veil Off on defence. For characters like Eltnum who gain a fullscreen move once they have meter, it is good to keep (or use) that way to help their neutral. Some characters can't combo off certain hits unless they spend meter.

Generally, meter is best spent in two ways; making unsafe moves safe by canceling them into an EX move, and gaining access to an invincible reversal if you do not have one. For example, Yuzu does not have a frame 1 invuln move without meter, but with meter she does. Vatista and Hyde already have a DP, so they don't really need to use it for that. Vatista however has an overhead ([8]2) that is very unsafe on block, so if it is blocked, you will want to use 100 meter to cancel it to EX beam to make it safe. Hyde can use his projectile followup as a frame trap, like the one where he leaps forward with a slash, but it is very minus. By canceling that into 236C, he makes it advantageous instead and can continue his offence.

Of course you can just use it to finish a combo with more damage, but unless it will kill, it's usually not worth it. If it will allow you to combo off a hit you normally can't, that is a good use for it.

 

I was watching a video that was explaining the system mechanics. So you can chain/confirm any normal into most normals? Is this good for both blockstrings and combos?

Yes. In most games, the chain of cancels usually goes light > medium > heavy (A > B > C), then specials into supers. That is not the case in this game; you can cancel any normal into any other normal in any single blockstring, but only once. So you could go 5C > 2C > 2A > 5B > 5A > 2B, etc. Once you've used a normal once though, you cannot use it again in the same chain until you go back to neutral. This lets you create unusual strings of moves that can be hard to predict. It also lets you make heavier moves faster to cancel by chaining them into shorter ones; for example, let`s say you have Hyde and do 5A > 5B > 6B > 5[C] > 2A. After the 5[C], if you let the move recover by itself, it will take a while and put you in a bad spot, so you might choose to go right into specials, but then you're running out of options. Instead, by cancelling 5[C] into 2A, which will of course whiff since they are now too far to block it, you only have to recover from the 2A, which is fast, while they are stuck in the long blockstun of 5[C], putting you in a much better spot (5[C] 2A (whiff) is even +). And since you've just returned to neutral by whiffing 2A, you can now start a new blockstring, or dash and go for a grab, or assault, etc.

 

In general what's the best use for Grid Meter? Getting more Super Meter, for continuing combos, or something else? 

This one is harder to answer, but it's the same as meter; it depends on what your character can do with Chain Shift.
Chain Shift serves two purposes; it is both this game's equivalent of a rapid cancel, and it freezes the screen for a second, letting you see what is happening.
Like with meter, you can use it to make some unsafe moves safe, or combo off of things you normally cannot (such a Hyde's charged Force Function). The time stop is also very useful for defence: If you are getting up off the ground, you can use CS immediately and see what your opponent is doing. If they threw out a move for oki, you can DP them without having to guess since you can see that they're doing something (assuming you have a DP). Note that you cannot Chain Shift any move that is invulnerable on startup if it is blocked or if it whiffs. Same goes with spending meter to make something safe; only on hit.
Lastly, if you have Vorpal, you can use 214D to do a counter assault move and get them off you. You can always do this even without Vorpal, but normally it costs 100 meter minimum and eats the rest, PLUS it grd breaks you. If you have vorpal, it only costs the Vorpal and your GRD, nothing else.
The meter gain from it is nice, but it's mostly a secondary bonus to the other uses it has.

Edited by Icekin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't read too carefully, but here's some general notes on Yuzu that I think pertain to the question?

=======

 

- Many of her normals are unsafe if you don't reverse beat them, but this is true for most characters in the game. Her 2B is one of the rare normals in the game that is even on block. Her slashes and stance specials are generally unpunishable, unless you do a 236x at point-blank and don't cancel it into a short slash (and subsequently cancel that with D).

 

- Yuzu's air slashes (j.236x) are useful for spacing, but are things that shouldn't be thrown out willy-nilly, as they generally leave her in a somewhat mediocre position if you don't follow them up with anything. That said, if you have a plan in mind when doing them (spacing, teleport follow-ups, chain shift mixup, etc.), they're fine.

 

- Yuzu's air flips (j.214x) are generally all good, have good frame advantage, and are good for visually confusing pressure when combined with teleports, short slashes, and d-cancels.

 

- Yuzu's ground flips (214x) are generally bad to do, unless you cancel them into other stance moves immediately. That said, they still have a place in her pressure even if they are simply d-cancelled, as a respectful opponent may choose to continue blocking afterwards and open themselves up to throw mixups.

 

- Staying in stance after specials allows Yuzu to perform her stance moves notably faster than normal, as well as retain significantly better frame advantage after her specials are blocked. On top of that, she can also jump-cancel on block while in stance, as well as stance dash and stance dodge, all of which are simply movement options (the dodge is just 22) and not actual special moves with button inputs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got the game last week, and just played a few people I know online to get a feel for the characters to see who I liked best. So far I'm liking Yuzuhira, Vatista and Hyde. I have some high level questions for each of them along with some general questions about the game so I'm including them in one post. If there are any questions that would be better to ask in character discussion feel free to say.

Vatistia

  • How do you use her unique charge moves correctly ([6]4 and [8]2) during a match? Unlike [2]8 or [4]6 it's hard to do in neutral since you can't zone effectively since you aren't blocking when preparing the weird charge moves.

Other

  • In general, what's the best way to use meter? (I guess ideally for the above 3 characters I mentioned?)
  • I was watching a video that was explaining the system mechanics. So you can chain/confirm any normal into most normals? Is this good for both blockstrings and combos?
  • In general what's the best use for Grid Meter? Getting more Super Meter, for continuing combos, or something else?

You need to think of Vatista's BEAM as an offensive zoning tool or a poke to challenge opponents trying to do things from mid to fullscreen away. It's fast on start-up (14,15f) hits full screen while it's active, and typically negative on block. It's more representative of a poke rather than fireballs which are usually plus on block and allow you to cover multiple sections of the screen as your projectile moves forward. If you are scared of holding a forward charge, throw out a slow fireball to slow them down.  Otherwise you just have to be brave and have a feel for your opponent's tendencies.

Like Vatista's BEAM, you need to have the mindset of using her DRILLs offensively; however unlike her BEAM, her DRILLs are used primarily for pressure/oki (A DRILL is +2!) rather than in neutral. Vatista's entire jump arc is 43f, or the same amount of time to develop a DRILL charge. In a game with strong AAs, you're going to get blown up hopping around trying to use DRILLs like this. If you are still persistent in doing so, either have a slow fireball or a Crystal in the way to cover yourself. Her EX DRILL has invulnerability, so you can also use that if you plan to bait regular AAs.

Meter management is a key skill to have in any modern fighter, and it always depends on the situation.Vatista's meter damage is pretty good; off of a good starter and WITHOUT vorpal, she can get 4.3 k if she finishes with EX FK. Vatista's EX BEAM is a good option for pressure as it's +7, hits full screen, and has 10 hits of projectile durability. I primarily use it for

-Dash C>FF>EX BEAM pressure.

-Creating an advantage in a fireball war.

-Cancelling after a blocked B DRILL to stay safe.

I suppose you wouldn't use VO as a defensive option too much since her FK is the best invincible reversal in UNIEL. It still has its benefits however. VO repairs your GRD bar if it's broken, and a successful VO in neutral breaks your opponent's GRD gauge. While VOing your opponent in a combo does not break their GRD gauge, it does strip Vorpal, so keep that in mind.

Vorpal and CS are strong tools to have, but you should be wary of your timing. In general, if you're knocked down, CS>FK is the best way to guarantee your FK will hit. If you want pressure, Dash C>FFCS>B DRILL/2C/Assaul/Throw is very strong. Her strongest corner carry combo mid range is 5C>CS>Dash C>FF>EX BEAM>Dash C>5A>JA>JB>JC>rejump>JA>JB>A DRILL>2C>2B>B FK. And finally for damage, FK>CS>VO combo is unfairly strong at 5.8-6.2k.

However, the main concern is not WHAT you should be using CS for, but WHEN in the cycle. Using CS consumes your GRD bar, and depending on how many blocks you have, you cannot gain any for a short period afterwards. If you use it mid combo, your GRD gauge cannot increase until your combo is finished. Using CS late in the cycle guarantees your opponent to get it in the next cycle which puts you at a disadvantage. Sometimes it's better to hold off and win the current cycle and use CS early on, so there is still ample time to win the one afterwards.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×