[P4AU] Rise Kujikawa Gameplay Discussion

[Cré-Klisan]

So far based on the the streams and notes from beno, Rise seems Like a hybrid Zoner/Rushdown or morphing character, she has to zone out the opponent at first using stuff like Makarakarn and Tetrakarn, Notes (ROCK YOU!) and C Projectiles, then using D normals to scan and use either Platinum Disc, Risette Field or her awesome J.B To get in and do Mixup/Pressure and possibly get knockdown into Arrow Rain (Lightning!)

 

But she may need to change her playstyle depending on the situation or matchup, for example I doubt you'll be able to safely use D scanning or Makarakan/Tetrakarn against a Yukiko or Yukari, since they'll be easily outzoning you, which means that you'd have to go for a more rushdown playstyle with Rise.

 

She seems to have really good mixup and lockdown potential, with a combination of her 2A, J.B, ROCK YOU! and Arrow Rain and AoA which looks decently fast with subtle startup.

 

I gotta say, I'm LOVING how she seems more like a "technical" character rather than straight-up zoner or any other archtype.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Updated the OP with the new info I found in the notes

 

5B only detonating the bottom musical note is interesting. I thought it would've detonated both. The dash cancel on 5C is pretty nice but I need more hands on time with her Cs so I can get a better feel for how effective they'll be. The startup on them didn't seem too bad when I messed around with them but the projectile is pretty tiny. It should still be able to get the job done to control ground space though, even if it can be easily jumped and maybe ducked.  

 

hmmmm, one thing that's still bothering me is that there doesn't seem to be a good way to detonate musical notes from a distance. Feels like there should be a way.

 

So far based on the the streams and notes from beno, Rise seems Like a hybrid Zoner/Rushdown or morphing character, she has to zone out the opponent at first using stuff like Makarakarn and Tetrakarn, Notes (ROCK YOU!) and C Projectiles, then using D normals to scan and use either Platinum Disc, Risette Field or her awesome J.B To get in and do Mixup/Pressure and possibly get knockdown into Arrow Rain (Lightning!)

 

I'm not too sure about that. Because all of Rise's zoning tools have a long startup, any attempts to zone right off the bat will probably result in your opponent running up and bopping you before your move could come out. In order to get our zoning started, we're probably going to need to give players a reason to hesitate in trying to rush us down and then use that moment of hesitation to start our zoning. Unfortunately, this is going to prove hard to do because we don't have many good pokes that'll go head to head with other people's pokes. jB is good but like many jump normals, it'll lose to well timed and spaced 2Bs if we're being too predictable. 5B has good horizontal range but can be jumped over for a punish and the startup on the microphone stand throw is long enough that if we don't space it properly, we'll lose to run up pokes. 

 

In the end, we'll probably have to play a game of cat and mouse to get zoning started. We'll have to pretend like we are trying to run away to create space and then take people off guard at seemingly random moments with an IAD jB or a 5B while they're trying to catch us. Then once we've opened them up enough times like this, they'll start to be more careful in chasing us and then the zoning fun can begin. On the bright side, it seems like all we need is one D to get in and get pressure started so far.

 

Though, the more I look at Rise's tools, I'm not quite sure if Rise's tools are really about zoning in the sense of keeping people out. The more I look at them, the more I think they're all specialized to allow Rise to get in or for mixups. I think the only zoning tools she has are 5C and jC. If we can find a way to detonate the musical notes from a distance, it could prove to be a strong zoning tool but right now, there doesn't seem to be a way to detonate them without using a B normal ;.;

[Cré-Klisan]

Didn't her No touching! and ROCK YOU! soundwave also detonate the notes? I think I saw Ho-Chan (Stunedge) use those in the Madcatz stream, in the corner to keep the opponent in lock, Might have to check again, also in one of Beno's impressions, he mentioned something like her 2B detonating both her notes, so that plus 5B and J.B, she has like 5 ways to detonate the Notes?

 

could be wrong, she may even have other methods to do such

 

EDIT: just checked the stream again (The one I posted before) at around 2:22:05 her second use of ROCK YOU! detonated the Notes, and Rurouni, you think we should update the OP by saying which attacks can detonate the notes? like her J.B?

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Good suggestion. I've updated the info for these moves to let people know they detonate musical notes. Might do a little something extra to make them stand out. 

 

Not sure about No Touching! but all the other moves definitely detonate the musical notes. The problem is when you have to detonate notes that are far away. 2B, jB and ROCK YOU! all have a pretty short range. 5B has some good range but It also requires proper spacing and it'll only go about a 1/3rd of the screen I think. Oh well. Even if it can only be detonated at close range, it'll still be good for oki and getting people into blockstun or hitstun to allow us to get in. 

[Cré-Klisan]

An interesting thing in the Madcatz stream, at around 2:29:40 Ho-chan used 5B with the SB notes being out and both got detonated by the 5B, so depending on where the upper note is (being lower while it's traveling) we could be able to detonate both notes with 5B, which is great!

 

also from what is revealed so far, it looks like all of her attacks that detonate the notes have a sound wave effect to them like J.B and 2B, also I'm really starting to think that ROCK YOU! is our go-to zoning tool, it seems like it has really good potential, can't wait to play around with it!

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Hmmmm, good point, I think I'm going to change the description of that move to just "can detonate musical notes". Thanks for that observation!

[JormungandrXXI]

Rise's Guard Cancel has the same animation as No Touching but it doesn't wallbounce. It's used in the Madcatz stream at 2:53:30

[Strife]

Awakening SP Skill Max damage.

Stunedge (Rise) Vs. Spinking (Ken)

[DeltaGamer147]

Looks like Rise has a wombo combo now lol

But all seriousness that's some amazing damage coming from EX version, but that's only if the bar is full or if it's at 60%, so keep in mind.

Also how much total damage does C and/or D version of Risette: Live on Stage do when the bar is full?

[JormungandrXXI]

C version does 4649 damage, i presume it's the C version because it's the one everyone used. The other version is a slightly longer song with a different pattern so i'm not sure if the damage would be the same if maxed out

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Rise's Guard Cancel has the same animation as No Touching but it doesn't wallbounce. It's used in the Madcatz stream at 2:53:30

 

Good eye. I've added it to the OP. Thanks!

[Cré-Klisan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDNdlxFqq2k
Rise's English trailer, that combo with Arrow Rain looks sweet, so we can combo while the beams are going up as well! and I thought Rise was a low damage character, Hype! also looks like you can cancel her 2B on the first hit

 

EDIT: Funny how Rise's hysterical slap ends with her slamming the opponent with her Mic

[MegaBlues]

I've noticed that in the trailers, Rise can cancel into other normals before she throws her stand, which would have made her pressure much better during EVO if that was used.

[Cré-Klisan]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56vJY2m8Lb4

I told you Rurouni! at 2:41 Rise's No Touching! detonated the notes, I'm almost certain she can do this at mid-range too, so that's one more attack we have that can detonate notes, which makes 5B, J.B, 2B Rock You! and No Touching!

 

EDIT: meant to post this earlier, looks like depending on the placement of each of the ROCK YOU! notes, One note could be detonated while the other can be saved for later purposes, Like using 5B while the upper note is high enough so that only the lower get's detonated, I hope this opens up combos, mixups or pressure options, imagine using the notes as combo extenders!

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Nice find, Updated the description of the move. Thanks! 

 

Musical notes as combo extenders would be pretty interesting. Might be difficult to set up outside of the corner unless they are already out on the field before the combo starts. But it would definitely give at least one good reason to have musical notes out at mid range, which would be interesting.

[DeathArcana]

So how does Rises rythm super work, are all the versions unblockable?

[JormungandrXXI]

So how does Rises rythm super work, are all the versions unblockable?

Yeah all versions are unblockable, they do 4649 damage when maxed out while SB does 5963. Each version has a different pattern and a different song.

[DeathArcana]

Do you think it is possible to get an unblockable setup by supercanceling into it while relying on her other specials?

[JormungandrXXI]

Yeah like Platinum Disc(w/Analyze), Arrow Rain or Rissette Field off the top of my head. Maybe even Rise could do All out Attack OMC into the super like Elizabeth, but instead of it actually connecting they go into the spin state recovery where they can only block and get hit for full damage.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Since the game launches next week in Japan, I've gone ahead and created all the remaining Rise threads in preparation. Let me know if anything is missing or there are any typos. I'll get started on posting the matchup threads and working on her wiki tomorrow.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Whoops, didn't realize the forum had a mod now. Think I'll stop my work here and leave the rest to him. 

[Ventus Tatshima]

Is the sequence of notes in the rythm game super fixed or randomized?

[JormungandrXXI]

There fixed. Each version has it's own notes but they never change

 

Just saw a Nico video with Rise's Live on Stage supers and they had multiple songs with multiple patterns so i was really wrong

[So-Called-Chaos]

this might be unlikely but is it possible to combo into Risettte live? I know it was hinted in the trailer when Rise's shadow did it after Platinum disc but it could be possible especially with Shadow rampage to do something like hysterical slap OMC then into risette live.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Atlus USA reps mentioned that you can combo into it with an OMC during one of their first streams. With time and experimentation, we might find a way to do it without an OMC. That said, not sure how well the damage for that super is going to scale in a combo.