[P4AU] Rise Kujikawa Gameplay Discussion

[mixedmethods]

Looks like her j.B is a Fatal Recovery. While messing around in online training with a friend, I got a fatal each time I anti-aired her after j.B was active. Not a Rise main, though, and someone should test and confirm. Anyone else spot this?

[So-Called-Chaos]

Doesn't look like its fatal recovery I tried J.B while akihiko did J.C, it was just a regular counter

[Justice7541]

this. if anything she is more of a setup char than a zoner. her strongest options from afar grant her alot of plus frames to get in without getting dp'd. she can zone in a sense that she has a ton of screen control but the recovery on alot of her attacks mean she needs to cover them with something. she cant continue pressure for long from afar. I think getting lightning, notes, or shield out is absolute priority. though notes are kinda meh it does give her another option in the neutral. these options will make the foe think twice about coming forward, but not for long. 2d is decent as well but that recovery...

 

not sure what she does if she gets pushed out because midrange is horrid for her I think. so for right now it seems like once you’re in you have to make the most of it. still day 1 or 2 so she needs some more analysis.

 

2C and j.D are pretty good for screen coverage while you approach too.  And j.B beats like everything under the sun that isn't straight invul.

[mixedmethods]

Doesn't look like its fatal recovery I tried J.B while akihiko did J.C, it was just a regular counter

It's a normal CH if you hit her before recovery frames. I tested against a friend -- anti-airing "normally" got the expected CH, but delaying the 2B slightly in order to hit after the j.B's active frames yielded consistent Fatal Counters.

[TD]

2C and j.D are pretty good for screen coverage while you approach too. And j.B beats like everything under the sun that isn't straight invul.

2c in general is good. I'm beginning to suspect it to be her best ground normal. I still need more time for practice, but the pros are that it's massively plus on block, covers the entire ground in front of rise horizontally, can be used as a midrange, close and far tool because it has no minimum range from my experience. Persona recovery is decent, to the point where she can throw out other tools fairly quickly using the bit to recover. Mu wishes she had steins like this.

Flaws seem to be few but big. Large recovery and strictly a ground attacking move. The foe can jump on the bit though and get locked into hit or blockstun, there's no air unblock however. So far in this situation I can't get much but an air combo, but that will change when a good juggle corner carry combo is found. Lastly like most of rise persona attacks, persona is left there until move ends, which makes it difficult to use vs some chars like zoners.

I really like this move though

[Red]

I wasn't sure where to post this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0rWgiIjjRU

 

I don't know if I'm amazed or dissapointed

 

Probably amazed

[Loli Bacon]

I.... don't know how I feel about the character. Seems a lot of her stuff can be disrespected and she lacks any semblance of midscreen blockstrings.

[So-Called-Chaos]

tried this many times so I'm 100% sure, Rise's 2B first hit is air unblockable, so that makes it a low and air unblockable at the same time which is really great since the 2B itself is a solid AA.

[Justice7541]

Boss Rise:

- Has automatic SB Tetrakarn.  Has a gauge that fills up quickly (about 2-3 seconds) and gives her SB Tetrakarn when it fills up.

- Opponent is always Analyzed for Disc and Arrow Rain (doesn't affect Orbiters, but can still Analyze normally for homing Orbiters).

[mixedmethods]

Okay, nevermind. It's not that Rise's j.B is Fatal Recovery, it's that I didn't realise my character gained Fatal Counter on 2B. I thought I was losing my mind.

Thanks for the boss Rise notes! (Ugh. Pun.)

[Loli Bacon]

UGH. This character.

Go try this against Narukami in the corner, standing.

5AA > 2A+B > 22A

Now delay the 22A slightly. Now do dash > 5AA. If you do 22A as fast as possible, only one hit connects against Narukami if he doesn't block. Delayed, none of them do. dash 5AA > 2A+B > 22A as fast as possible yields 3 hits when he gets up.

This character is so damn finnicky.

[TD]

She can't seem to fight yukiko, the resident zoner, becaus persona reliance and recovery. So I'm going to assume any full on rushdown or fullscreen zoners are going to break her persona real fast... Which when you think about it, is sort of everyone.

If she's not a rush down, and not a zoner, and can't setup without space then... What exactly is she lol.

She is not easy to play in any sense of the word ._.

[Ventus Tatshima]

You gotta believe!!!!!

[furix]

I think she needs a lot of work haha. Like, not only personally but she might be in need of buffs... Like bigger hitbox on 22A at least... and faster persona recovery.

[LitchiFayeBling]

just mash DP a lot

[TD]

just mash DP a lot

  

In my experience with the internet, I'm going to go on a limb and say you're trying a bit of levity here.

I think she needs a lot of work haha. Like, not only personally but she might be in need of buffs... Like bigger hitbox on 22A at least... and faster persona recovery.

buffs would seriously be nice. I know the game is new and all but it is clear she is going to have a lot of problems with her tall ass persona taking all day to go away after basically any attack. It's seriously like either use one of rises bad normals or use a persona attack and risk it completely backfiring. Not to mention how much rise needs it. Whether we get better or drop the char, this stuff isn't going away, and it means with her other weaknesses her otherwise good neutral takes a big hit.

Close range though it seems she has all the tools to sneak in some gimmicks. I like 236b in pressure, it is a free reset or at least the foe can't punish you at all after. So if you read a back dash you can setup 2c or something. And approach runs the risk of eating a 5b or 2b with note buffs.

How do you guys feel about shields? Way too slow and the benefits (and costs) seem skewed to me. I'm thinking in the long run the sb shield will be the one of choice if they are used at all.

[Justice7541]

SB shield might lead to some interesting gimmicks since it's kind of hard to see Rise behind it.  Beyond that she definitely feels very momentum based but I'm not convinced her problems at neutral vs. zoners are necessarily fatal especially since she runs pretty fast.  Time will tell I guess.

[Surf]

  

In my experience with the internet, I'm going to go on a limb and say you're trying a bit of levity here.

buffs would seriously be nice. I know the game is new and all but it is clear she is going to have a lot of problems with her tall ass persona taking all day to go away after basically any attack. It's seriously like either use one of rises bad normals or use a persona attack and risk it completely backfiring. Not to mention how much rise needs it. Whether we get better or drop the char, this stuff isn't going away, and it means with her other weaknesses her otherwise good neutral takes a big hit.

Close range though it seems she has all the tools to sneak in some gimmicks. I like 236b in pressure, it is a free reset or at least the foe can't punish you at all after. So if you read a back dash you can setup 2c or something. And approach runs the risk of eating a 5b or 2b with note buffs.

How do you guys feel about shields? Way too slow and the benefits (and costs) seem skewed to me. I'm thinking in the long run the sb shield will be the one of choice if they are used at all.

 

For her shields the Tetrakarn pushes the opponent back if she blocks and physical hit and Marakarn shoots outs a 5C projectile if she blocks a projectile herself right. Whats different about the SB one exactly

 

I fought a couple Rise plus you last night and one of them I fought would end a combo with the disc in the air and land and setup a Marakarn. Approaching for him became a bit easier because I couldn't just shoot him, and he'd be on me before I can get a limb out. He didn't do this often but I felt setting up shield this way was a problem for me. For Yukari, I had to usually give up 1 persona card to get rid of the shield and return it back to neutral. But usually I had to set up a Garu orb and 236A after so the garu arrow would set the shield off and 236A would keep Rise blocking so she couldn't run in. But Isis would usually get hit with the projectile from the shield. But if Yukari is persona broken I don't think there much I can do other than run away. 

 

Playing against her it feels like she should have at least 5 persona cards, not 4. Especially with Himiko being so slow/tall. She seems fun though, I might give her a try some day

[AchedSphinx]

just mash DP a lot

Funny part about her DP is that Mitsuru can outrange it with j.A, causing it to trigger, and Mitsuru basically gets a free FC. Another funny aspect is that it's similar to Kanji's DP, you can OMC the hit or cancel it into a super. But you'd need gdlk reaction speed for that one.

[Celerity]

Funny part about her DP is that Mitsuru can outrange it with j.A, causing it to trigger, and Mitsuru basically gets a free FC. Another funny aspect is that it's similar to Kanji's DP, you can OMC the hit or cancel it into a super. But you'd need gdlk reaction speed for that one.

 

Depending on the character, you can just cancel whatever you're doing into your own DP and you will usually win. I don't know the actual startup frames, but it seems slow enough to be reactable to me, especially when you're looking for it.

[Justice7541]

For her shields the Tetrakarn pushes the opponent back if she blocks and physical hit and Marakarn shoots outs a 5C projectile if she blocks a projectile herself right. Whats different about the SB one exactly

 

I fought a couple Rise plus you last night and one of them I fought would end a combo with the disc in the air and land and setup a Marakarn. Approaching for him became a bit easier because I couldn't just shoot him, and he'd be on me before I can get a limb out. He didn't do this often but I felt setting up shield this way was a problem for me. For Yukari, I had to usually give up 1 persona card to get rid of the shield and return it back to neutral. But usually I had to set up a Garu orb and 236A after so the garu arrow would set the shield off and 236A would keep Rise blocking so she couldn't run in. But Isis would usually get hit with the projectile from the shield. But if Yukari is persona broken I don't think there much I can do other than run away. 

 

Playing against her it feels like she should have at least 5 persona cards, not 4. Especially with Himiko being so slow/tall. She seems fun though, I might give her a try some day

 

SB shield is faster startup and has the effects of both shields, although it'll still only trigger once.

[Loli Bacon]

I honestly think this character is bad, unless some serious new tech is found. She feels like P4U Yukiko, without the amazing setups, unblocks and zoning. That is to say, she's heavily momentum based, being both strong at a distance (against non-zoners) and being a nuisance up close. She has some hilariously fun gimmicks like stuff > 2C > 5[D] > mixup of choice > ]D[, but against other zoners she has to take pretty large risks to do anything. Honestly, I think her saving grace is 214214C+D as a reversal during blockstrings, since it will make slower moves whiff and punishes for 6k (kills a LOT of characters after 1-2 random hits). I don't expect to win much with this character, honestly. DP is bad. Like, really REALLY bad. Shields are also bad, but they're useful as a way to set up trickier mixups. I like doing stuff > 236C+D > microdash 5C > 22A > microdash 5C > 5D > 214A/B > Shield and then pressure with stuff. It's pretty solid, and the shield covers stuff like AoA and stances while calling the Himiko.

Still think she's REALLY bad, though.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Frame data

http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/lite/read.cgi/game/52991/1397747198/638

[mixedmethods]

I punished Rise DP with an empty Titanomachia for Fatal ender. Testing in the lab revealed you can add Brutal Impact to that punish to take out her lifebar. Ken and Shabrys can have their puppets take the hit by triggering the counter, then moving in for a combo. It actually seems useless against Shab, since Asterius doesn't care about projectiles, so Shab can just have the bull block and avoid chip damage by staying behind it.

Personally, I'd be very careful with that DP. Right now, I think everyone's learning when it's safe to punish, and once everyone knows... whiff it and die.

[TD]

SB shield might lead to some interesting gimmicks since it's kind of hard to see Rise behind it.  Beyond that she definitely feels very momentum based but I'm not convinced her problems at neutral vs. zoners are necessarily fatal especially since she runs pretty fast.  Time will tell I guess.

 not fatally towed but she is definitely going to struggle a lot in zoning. She kinda has to play rps except her risk/reward is not in her favor. She can fight and even get in vs zoners bit it's going to take all more work that expected from a character like this. Hr dash is cool but it's no saving grace.

 

For her shields the Tetrakarn pushes the opponent back if she blocks and physical hit and Marakarn shoots outs a 5C projectile if she blocks a projectile herself right. Whats different about the SB one exactly

 

I fought a couple Rise plus you last night and one of them I fought would end a combo with the disc in the air and land and setup a Marakarn. Approaching for him became a bit easier because I couldn't just shoot him, and he'd be on me before I can get a limb out. He didn't do this often but I felt setting up shield this way was a problem for me. For Yukari, I had to usually give up 1 persona card to get rid of the shield and return it back to neutral. But usually I had to set up a Garu orb and 236A after so the garu arrow would set the shield off and 236A would keep Rise blocking so she couldn't run in. But Isis would usually get hit with the projectile from the shield. But if Yukari is persona broken I don't think there much I can do other than run away. 

 

Playing against her it feels like she should have at least 5 persona cards, not 4. Especially with Himiko being so slow/tall. She seems fun though, I might give her a try some day

  that's just it, regular shields are too slow for what they are worth and the conditions and costs are also too heavy for what it is worth. It is not easy to maintain sometimes, and the small projectile doesn't give her much but a persona card or 500 damage at best.

I honestly think this character is bad, unless some serious new tech is found. She feels like P4U Yukiko, without the amazing setups, unblocks and zoning. That is to say, she's heavily momentum based, being both strong at a distance (against non-zoners) and being a nuisance up close. She has some hilariously fun gimmicks like stuff > 2C > 5[D] > mixup of choice > ]D[, but against other zoners she has to take pretty large risks to do anything. Honestly, I think her saving grace is 214214C+D as a reversal during blockstrings, since it will make slower moves whiff and punishes for 6k (kills a LOT of characters after 1-2 random hits). I don't expect to win much with this character, honestly. DP is bad. Like, really REALLY bad. Shields are also bad, but they're useful as a way to set up trickier mixups. I like doing stuff > 236C+D > microdash 5C > 22A > microdash 5C > 5D > 214A/B > Shield and then pressure with stuff. It's pretty solid, and the shield covers stuff like AoA and stances while calling the Himiko.

Still think she's REALLY bad, though.

It is still very early but I'm getting similar vibes. She will definitely be on the lower end unless something really good is found.