[P4AU] Ken Amada Gameplay Discussion

[Pen_Ninja]

I'd definitely like to co-mod. I'm no stranger to writing up a bunch of stuff, be it a wall of solid MU information or a structured combo list... but I feel like mixedmethods is keen as well... so......

 

In terms of when you can press Koro normals, it's a bit all over the place.

For the most part it's just any time you want (when Koro isn't in recovery) but they're locked out during supers and your DP. I feel like there were more situations where I couldn't use him but I wasn't able to figure out what was causing that.

 

As much as you want Koro running around and controlling space, you still need him for hit confirms though. If he's busy spinning around and you get a hit then you may not get anything off it.

[mixedmethods]

Hey, Pen_Ninja, if you want to be co-mod, I think it should go to you, honestly. You have seniority and have been part of this community much longer than I have. Or to cover time zone stuff, maybe sub co-mods? I've got a stupid debilitating illness so I can't work, which means I'm around all the damn time, alas. With the Wiki, combos, vids, and MUs, that's a ton of ground to cover. I mean, I'm always happy to do grunt work because, as I told you, I'm a little OCD and I like everything organised (empty MU top posts make me sad), but assuming no regular mod wants to co-mod, if it comes down to current members, I think it should be you before me. The only benefit of having two co-mods that I could see would be two people able to edit top/info thread starters with new info during the opening days (if editing permissions work like that). I'm expecting info overload, basically.

I'm liking the 214C + 5B > 236A idea. I'm liking it a lot. With Shabrys, I find myself using wall set-ups and, of course, left-rights (get hit by bull or by Shab: heads I win, tails you lose), so I was hoping we'd find similar set-ups for Ken. One thing I like about the aforementioned wall is that it forces the opponent to guess (or, if they've committed, to get hit). I'm really curious how the MU dynamic will play out -- when I play Aigis, lots of people try to rush me so I can't start my most damaging game, whereas when I'm Shabrys, there's a lot more ... trepidation, as opponents don't want to come in range of a bull attack or, God forbid, a Guillotine knockdown. It'll vary by character, of course, but I think Ken has the ability to be threatening at range, much like Shabrys, and I'm looking forward to seeing if we can use a fear aura.

Though thinking about the wall set-up, I'm wondering if certain characters could blow it up completely ... namely, Aigis, since 2B would take out Koro and give her mode change breathing room if 5B > 236A whiffs. Vulcan Cannon isn't usually a great move but it moves her in the air and acts as a sort of "fake jump," so now I need to test if she'd be airborne long enough to hit Koro and dodge 5B. I'm guessing the spacing is going to be very tight. Then again, not sure what she could covert a VC hit into out of Orgia, and she has great new air options now ... I'm really looking forward to testing that MU.

[KingofCups]

Bahaha, I've started learning how to play Carl Clover in my wait for Ken, just to get used to managing multiple units to good effect. It's a little bit overkill considering Carl is kind of up there execution wise, but *shrug*. Whatever I can do to get ahead. The fact that Koro does not tire might end up being unfair. Depending on how airtight you can make their cooperation, I suppose. I'm really hoping they have a learning curve that is a little bit prohibitive, but worth the effort.

[Pen_Ninja]

I tend to have a bunch of down-time at work so I can post around pretty much all the time as well (I'm at work now...). Add on the fact that I'm generally up until ~2am most nights, that puts me online like nearly 18 hours/day between 8am and 2am the next day. #Nerrrrrdddd

 

All-in-all, I don't feel like 214C/D is as good of a neutral tool as it looks like it is from videos really.

Once you actually use it, you realise that the startup makes it kind of awkward and the trajectory only really covers some approaches leaving Ken vulnerable as the recovery is also rather long. I found that it was more helpful as a pressure reset tool, especially in the corner. 236C/D is good for that too but the hitbox makes it easier to jump out of where 214C/D comes from above and jumping is just going to put you inside it.

So as I said, I wouldn't be using 2314C in a neutral situation but IF I DID... I'd be using it with 5B > 236A backup.

 

I didn't actually play against Aigis at EVO at all but I feel like that MU is going to be rough...

She has a lot of approaches that I really can't think of an answer to right now and once she's in, our DP is outr only way out... so good luck.

2B may be hard to deal with if it hits Koro in neutral (while he's idle). We might have to 5D Koro away on reaction to avoid it. On the other hand, if it goes over him in idle, it'll probably go over him while he's running up to do 2C. I get the feeling from the look of the move that it WILL hit low enough though

An 236B would be a decent answer to Aigis 2B assuming the bullets go away when she gets hit (I actually don't know...). If they don't go away, we might get something on trade, but probably not.

I did think of something just now though... 2C + roll should either put Aigis in block stun to cover our roll or roll through 2B and allow all some sort of punish (5A > 5B > 236A~B > 236C > 236B~B) assuming Koro recovers in time to hit OTG 236C.

Air to air j.A is my only thought on getting around Aigis j.C though T__T.

 

---

 

Edit: Just saw your post come up after I finished writing mine...

 

Bahaha, I've started learning how to play Carl Clover in my wait for Ken, just to get used to managing multiple units to good effect. It's a little bit overkill considering Carl is kind of up there execution wise, but *shrug*. Whatever I can do to get ahead. The fact that Koro does not tire might end up being unfair. Depending on how airtight you can make their cooperation, I suppose. I'm really hoping they have a learning curve that is a little bit prohibitive, but worth the effort.

 

Being a Carl main for over a year, I have experience to draw from here...

Carl will definitely help you with Ken's j.2B > 2C > j.B combo route because a lot of his easier combos work that way (j.B > j.B > j.C > Ada > 5C > j.B > etc). I can definitely say that his execution is much harder than Ken's though.

 

Koro not getting tired won't be that amazing... Block strings are somewhat tight as long as you don't do any mixup but as soon as you try to mix up, it gets mashable.

[Djqubil]

Ken looks intresting enough for me. He is the character that has the gameplay I wanted (Relius Clover), and so, I want to use him for greater trollings. I couldn't play Relius that much right, but from the footage I saw, Ken seems to be easier to manage. 

 

 

Plus, with all that range and the ability to heal the doge, he is one force to be scared of. Drinking milk works wonders. :3

[Pen_Ninja]

Threads are up... I'm so hype...

I look forward to contributing

[Sharakonta]

I sadly won't be able to add much til I get my NA copy in a month T.T

Sent using the GF13-17NJII God Gundam's Mobile Trace System.

[So-Called-Chaos]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLsWlXQHYs

Ken trailer, combo into AoA confirmed

[Pen_Ninja]

With a puppet character like Ken it was bound to be possible really... If none of his moves combo into AoA directly (as of EVO build... they did not), Koromaru will fill in the gap.

[KingofCups]

I just realized Koromaru has Tenerazza :')

[Pen_Ninja]

Quick long-ish range move that vacuums, forces standing" on hit, has a ton of hit stun and done by the puppet allowing the main character to do stuff at the same time?

 

Edit: I just realised that you're right... 236A/B fits the description and allows Koromaru (obviously the main character here) to act while Ken does the move.

[Dopples]

It's worth noting that combos into AoA have severely scaled hitstun now, to the point where they can apparently tech out in the air.

[Pen_Ninja]

Wait really?
I was told that Sho's optimal DP punish was something like 5B > AoA > etc...

[mixedmethods]

It's worth noting that combos into AoA have severely scaled hitstun now, to the point where they can apparently tech out in the air.

Yeah, though I think -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that that's more to prevent long combo paths into and out of the AoA itself. That and you can shorten the AoA by hitting C for an automatic fatal even if you don't go for all 18 hits.

[Pen_Ninja]

Wait no... Air hit AoAs have been nerfed a bunch.

They used to bounce up and not let you recover until you hit the ground. Now you can tech in the air.

 

The combo into AoA we're talking about is when they're still grounded. You still get the mash > C/D section of the AoA in these cases, unlike when you get the air hit.

[Dopples]

Ohhh, that's true. Basically, it was nerfed because of Chie lol

[Pen_Ninja]

I also remember some Yukiko unblockables being set up off anti-air AoA. Both the 2D+2A and fire break varieties.

[mixedmethods]

Wait no... Air hit AoAs have been nerfed a bunch.

They used to bounce up and not let you recover until you hit the ground. Now you can tech in the air.

 

The combo into AoA we're talking about is when they're still grounded. You still get the mash > C/D section of the AoA in these cases, unlike when you get the air hit.

Okay, I knew I was missing something.

Cough. Um. As an Aigis main, I have almost no use for an actual AoA, just the AoA starter in combos or to go airborne to avoid certain moves.

[Agito]

I managed to get my hands on an early copy of P4U2 and I've been in training mode for a few hours now with Ken. Some really notable things are that none of his normals are dash-cancelable, making Koro a must for applying pressure. Koromaru can be comboed as well. I've found that with Narukami 2B>5B>5C>J.C>B+D is a 100% life combo on Koro.

 

Also full-screen projectile attacks like Narukami's Ziodyne and Akihiko's Maziodyne take a HUGE chunk out of Koromaru's health. Akihiko does about 60% while Narukami does around 75% and if they're OMC'd things can get pretty tough for Ken. I would highly recommend having Koro put away while on the defensive and maybe even at neutral against some characters like Liz.

 

So far from what I've experimented with Narukami is a very problematic matchup for Ken and possibly one of his worst.

[9:02 PM]

I managed to get my hands on an early copy of P4U2 and I've been in training mode for a few hours now with Ken. Some really notable things are that none of his normals are dash-cancelable, making Koro a must for applying pressure. Koromaru can be comboed as well. I've found that with Narukami 2B>5B>5C>J.C>B+D is a 100% life combo on Koro.

 

Also full-screen projectile attacks like Narukami's Ziodyne and Akihiko's Maziodyne take a HUGE chunk out of Koromaru's health. Akihiko does about 60% while Narukami does around 75% and if they're OMC'd things can get pretty tough for Ken. I would highly recommend having Koro put away while on the defensive and maybe even at neutral against some characters like Liz.

 

So far from what I've experimented with Narukami is a very problematic matchup for Ken and possibly one of his worst.

 

I do remember one of the play testers at EVO saying some of his normals (I think his sweep in particular) were hop cancellable. It's no jump cancel, but it's probably better than nothing.

Also I am jealous.

[mixedmethods]

I do remember one of the play testers at EVO saying some of his normals (I think his sweep in particular) were hop cancellable. It's no jump cancel, but it's probably better than nothing.

Also I am jealous.

I double checked the OP, since I remember going through everyone's notes to collect that info ... sweep is indeed a hop-cancel, and Ken has a few jump cancels, but with one exception, his jump-cancels are on hit only -- 5A is the only normal that jump-cancelable on block. It doesn't surprise me that he lacks dash cancels, since a lot of DC and BDCs seem to be on persona moves (Mitsuru's 5C, Narukami's 5C, etc.) and Ken doesn't use his persona for standalone attacks the way more conventional characters do. I'll update the OP with this new info, though. (And to clean up a few typos. Oops.) Until his wiki page is complete, I plan to keep updating, just so everyone knows -- I want to make sure we all have at least one source of condensed info.

Honestly, I suspected that Narukami was going to be a PITA for Ken, but I feel like an idiot for not anticipating that Ziodyne would off Koromaru. Granted, Koromaru can be 2/5D'd out of danger even while Ken blocks. Of course, since Koro's not Asterius, we can't use him to occupy half the screen and get free meter.

Seems like Ken is more about sustaining really nasty pressure than mix-up, which, if my guess is right, means locking Narukami down and not letting him breathe.

(Obligatory "is Narukami a good MU for ANYONE" joke. I'm accustomed to suffering in that MU if I can't lock him down.)

[VR-Raiden]

Thanks, any wiki help is appreciated. I added a link to it in your first post by the way.

Also, I heard Ken has 8500 health.

So all threads are in place and will be unlocked tonight. The combo thread first post will almost certainly change how it organizes combos.

There should also be a Ken Skype group soon, I don't know if I'm the one making it but anyone can PM me your Skype and I can add you to it when it's made if interested.

[mixedmethods]

Thanks, any wiki help is appreciated. I added a link to it in your first post by the way.

Also, I heard Ken has 8500 health.

So all threads are in place and will be unlocked tonight. The combo thread first post will almost certainly change how it organizes combos.

There should also be a Ken Skype group soon, I don't know if I'm the one making it but anyone can PM me your Skype and I can add you to it when it's made if interested.

I noticed when I went to edit! Many thanks. Anyone is welcome to steal/edit/rewrite/re-paraphrase move descriptions from that post for the Wiki; I relied on stream footage, YouTube videos, and our testers to describe the moves. Those descriptions will likely be refined as soon as I can get my hands on the game... just a few more hours.

 

Has that health been confirmed? I calculated his health during Evo sets multiple times, because I really wanted to lock down that number. It'd be disappointing to hear it dropped that much.

 

ETA: PM'd you regarding the Skype group. Don't forget to have fun this weekend, though! I'm sure we can self-moderate ... luckily, Ken's sub-forum is pretty quiet.

[Pen_Ninja]

So I'll be at work when the game releases... I have a friend that I'll be seeing after work, he needs to leave home for uni pretty much exactly when the game is supposed to release...

I may not get this game for a while still T__T

I heard 8500 as well... I want more HP.

Will PM my skype when I get home and can actually check what it is.

[mixedmethods]

I changed his health to reflect the stated 8500 vs. 9500 at Evo discrepancy. Since my calculations from Evo just got blown up, I'm going to refrain from listing a number as an absolute until we have confirmation ... I find it strange that his health dropped that much, as I don't get the logic behind that kind of rebalance, but such is life while waiting to unlock the game. :|