Jump to content
mixedmethods

[P4AU] Ken Amada Gameplay Discussion

Recommended Posts

After having fun with Rise, I decided to put her on the back burner and focus on Ken. I was really excited for this character, but couldn't quite grasp his style since I'm used to the Carl style of puppeteering. Forgot how fun the character can be, but I definitely need a lot of work to get back into the groove.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken is my first puppet character (unless you count Kiba in Naruto GNT/UNS) so I understand a little bit. I even gave up on Ken at one point. What helped me is developing my own style of playing, if you can call it that. I mainly use Ken or Koromaru to bait things at neutral. Running away while having Koromaru mess with the opponent is pretty fun too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I will say about Ken is that I do love the fact that Koromaru is active. He runs all around the stage and a lot of opponents seem to forget that he exists until I use him to punish Persona or to just keep them at bay. I'm definitely going to start learning some combos, because when Ken and Koromaru work together, they're a force to be reckoned with. I think that's the reason why I like puppet characters so much. Their style is so unique and you can pretty much play them in various ways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes! I feel that way as well. I don't really like playing a character the same way as everyone else or trying to imitate everything a top player does. Taking a few things from other players is fine but at the end of the day you're the one using the character and I feel like it's important that people have their own style whether it be sticking to strictly fundamentals or busting out wild gimmicks. It keeps things fun and refreshing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're already playing the puppet character, there's no need to be any more of an FG hipster. If it works it works, there's no point in worrying about whether other people have already done it or not.

If it doesn't fit your playstyle and/or you just can't pull it off with your reflexes/execution/reads then that's a different matter I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about puppet characters is that they have to work together in order to dish out their damage. That's their who shtick. Every character in anime has one, so it's not too farfetched to see people play their characters a certain way. But puppeteers are very versatile, so you can play them in various ways, depending on the match up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow I play Ken because I liked him in the RPG.

Character almost made me drop him because of the growing pains but I stuck with him.

I pretty much found everything I knew about the characters from the jbbs and hitting the lab.

Found out quick this character shouldn't exist.

But its ok because Narukami and Hanamura exist.

 

Also I have some very fun optimal combos to share.

I don't know the interest in knowing them now but I considered recording them and putting them in a video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to record them and post it that would be great. I know that the Persona forums in general are kinda dead right now but any contribution at all is much appreciated.

 

Edit: We got a video showing the changes for 2.0 (the buffs anyway). Personally I'm pretty hype about the potential with healing mid-combo.

 

http://youtu.be/y94QGcS-pEQ?t=1m15s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken's 2.0 patch notes, translated by a friend.

[collapse]

Lines marked with (???) made no sense to me

Ken Amada

5A

・In counter hit state for longer.

・Added feint property (???)

5AAA

・Moves Ken forward

・Gatlings into sweep.

・Wallbounces on air hit.

Autocombo

・Adjusted float on air hit, autocombo is easier to land.

2A

・Attack level decreased

JA

・Shorter interval between the attacks.

・Less overall recovery.

Koromaru attacks (C, 2C, Off-stage C)

・Attacks come out on button release.

Koromaru attack (2C)

・Koromaru makes a large leap backwards on block.

Koromaru retreat (D)

・If D is held after Koromoru jumps back, Koromaru returns.

Koromaru jump-in attack (C while offstage)

・Activation sped up.

・Leaps to the opponent's position.

・After inputting the move, holding forward or back changes where Koromaru appears.

All-out attack

・Activation sped up.

・Invincibility continues until right after becoming active (WTF)

・Recovery decreased.

All-out attack D finisher.

・Blowback adjusted, flies further away.

Ground throw

・More recovery after hit.

Vile Assault

・Activation sped up.

・Less recovery on whiff and block.

・Decreased untechable time on counter hit.

・In crouching state upon landing.

Mediarama all versions.

・Hitbox added.

・Recovers less HP.

・Recovers less of Koromaru's HP.

・C and D versions are projectile invincible during the animation, SB version fully invincible during the animation (WTF)

Zan - Hakurou Battouga SB (236C/D)

・Activation sped up.

・Faster movement speed.

・Koromaru slows down when he hits the opponent.

・Attack stops when Ken blocks or takes damage.

Zetsu - Hakurou Battouga all versions. (214C/D)

・C and D versions have less hits on block.

Zetsu - Hakurou Battouga SB

・Has more hits.

・Koromaru is projectile invincible during the attack.

・Attack stops when Ken blocks or takes damage.

Koromaru's HP gauge.

・Koromaru has more HP.

・Increased time to recover when Koromaru has 0 HP.

・Mediarama doesn't work on Koromaru when he has 0 HP.

Koromaru attacks

・No longer counterbalances (???)

・No more accidental inputs when executing moves that consume SP.

Koromaru damage

・Koromaru can longer act when he takes damage.[/collapse]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So basically Ken got buffed and Koro got nerfed. Seems fair I guess although now I'm not really sure how he's supposed to do pressure since he doesn't have anything DP-safe without Koro cover. Hopefully the new Mediarama is DP-safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, I played a decent amount of games today, including losing a tournament in Shinjuku to Koichi and some casuals with Tahichi, Hama, and STD.

Here's what I noticed so far:

- AoA D ender can't be used midscreen anymore
The D ender now pushes the opponent too far away to connect with 236A/B. Even the SB version doesn't work

- 214A/B pushes the opponent away on hit and gives a wallbounce in the corner.
This allows for some pretty nifty combos and even a loop after AoA D. Whether or not this is optimal however remains to be seen.

- 214A/B may be able to option select DP's?

I did it against a Teddie player and when the tried to DP nothing happened and I was able to get a counter hit. This needs to be experimented more in-depth. You also have to be dangerously close to the opponent in order for it to connect. It's also projectile invul in some frames

 

- Grab nerf
Ken's grab now has more recovery so 236A/B doesn't connect anymore.

 

-236CD buff

236CD is now projectile invul and comes out very fast so it can be used to punish a bunch of things from full screen. It's also airtight on block so it allows for some mixup potential in the corner.
 

- 5C Koromaru Entry change

Koromaru now locks on to the opponents current position and enters there after coming back on screen after being put away with 5D. It's a weird change that can be either good or bad depending on when you use it.

 

- Koromaru Nerfs

All of his non-SB attacks have recovery on block. He does the 5D backflip after every blocked normal and 214C/D does less hits on block so the oki setup isn't as tight as it used to be. He also can't be healed when dead so make sure he stays alive!

 

A list of changes for all the characters can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1csHKZLeZZx6U9Qa5EAKduNUtzUlqwdpDzrB0uOvKviQ/edit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does dogwheel get recovery on block now even if they crouch block it? I remember it would go into recovery if taller characters stood up to block all the hits but usually crouch block reached the ground before that happened. With less hits it sounds like Koro will go into recovery sooner so it may not work even on crouch block?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The dogwheel does get recovery even on crouch block, it's pretty weird to see. With the less hits thing, the dogwheel is still as active as it used to be but once it makes contact then the less hits comes into play. I will make a note of that and report back with more details after tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at these changes, it seems like they made Ken better, but completely nerfed Koromaru. And this is a team that has to work together, especially since Ken doesn't really rely on his Persona too much and, depending on the matchup, relies on Koromaru heavily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll make his really bad matchups (Marge, Narukami, etc) less skewed relative to the others because they won't be able to totally cripple him by killing Koromaru. On the other hand he already looks pretty crippled even with Koromaru so his matchups are probably gonna be worse across the board since his pressure and mixup game looks basically nonexistent now.

I guess Arcsys wants us to play pure neutral with Ken rather than just having days of pressure off every hit or block.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken's pressure is still decent, it's just not braindead anymore. Plus the recovery after every blocked normal actually makes Koro invincible. And the match ups are pretty much the same from my experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm aware that it's still super early, but what's the general consensus on 2.0 Ken from you guys?  Those early tier lists putting him in S had me curious, is he actually better?  I honestly the nerfs to Koro and 5A being low-profileable would either weaken him overall, or even him out, but I suppose he's still a Puppet character, Koro's getting more life, and you've got some projectile-invulnerable specials now, I suppose.  Maybe I just answered my own question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly from  my experience the tier list is pretty much the same. The only character I've seen so far that received a different spot is S.Junpei. He's easily one of the best shadow characters. As far as the other shadow characters go, they either stayed the same or got better due to the way shadow characters work now. With the normal characters the changes aren't really enough to warrant matchup changes and I haven't seen anything that changes their overall tier placement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do Shadows still get the huge boost to meter gain and meter carryover? I've always felt that alone was worth the damage and burst loss on some characters, now with Shadows not having to deal with either of those things it seems pretty cut-and-dry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

since its a bit tough to find Ken matches in the current version we play, Can I watch footage from 2.0? I dont exactly know whats different besides 2C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken has had a few changes but nothing that's too game changing. Koromaru now has recovery on every blocked normal, Ken's DP recovers faster but does less hitstun so you can't combo off CH, healing move now has a hitbox, and Ken also gains safejumps off auto combo. I'd say watching 2.0 is still pretty good for reference material since matchups didn't really change for Ken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken has had a few changes but nothing that's too game changing. Koromaru now has recovery on every blocked normal, Ken's DP recovers faster but does less hitstun so you can't combo off CH, healing move now has a hitbox, and Ken also gains safejumps off auto combo. I'd say watching 2.0 is still pretty good for reference material since matchups didn't really change for Ken.

You can still use SB moves to keep koromaru pressuring without recovery. Using Koromaru in 2.0 only makes you start doing blockstrings>Sweep/236A/236SB so you can make time and let koromaru recover. Sweep also catches ppl trying to jump and let can cancel into 236A for a combo. Ken Autocombo 3rd hit launches the opponent to the other side of the screen and makes the wallbounce (You can do combo>autcombo>Wallbounce>236A~A for knockdown into pressure).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does Ken have a safe string into sweep now? His biggest flaw in 1.1 was not having any safe strings that couldn't be reversaled with DPs or supers with enough range, unless he used Koro to cover himself. My friend plays Adachi and he basically hammers Atom Smasher whenever he sees me go past 5A/2A in a blockstring and it works like 90% of the time cause I can't actually bait it without RCing. I actually think Adachi is one of Ken's worst matchups just because of Atom Smasher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×