Jump to content
Antiquarian

[P4AU] Tohru Adachi Gameplay Discussion

Recommended Posts

Playing Adachi in training mode, he felt like a better Kanji, but in game he doesn't feel like that at all. I try to play him like a character that waits to well-place his moves and "open up" the opponent, am I playing him wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5AA>5B>5C(1)>BRiser>Loop (the timing on 5C(1)>Riser is kind of strict (for me) so just try cancelling as soon as you press C)

 

I don't like this so much. If you're not absolute point blank the Heat Riser just loves to whiff... I'll have to try 5AAA into it more.

 

 

Sho Minazuki's been giving me a hard time. I'll map everything out in training later, but at first glance everything seems impossible.

Adachi has short range and long range, but nothing in between, so Minazuki can just mash 5A/2A at max range 'cause what are you going to do about it?

Sweep and 5C are too slow to compete and I often had my Persona broken trying to space...

 

Ahh, there's gotta be a punish opportunity somewhere, I just have to find it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair that IS his deal vs most of the cast. Adachi just has it bad because well we just have to get to block due to our completely lack of choices vs him. DP is useful but you are giving him 950 more damage if you mess up the next guess.

I've gotten a few Minazukis with 5B after some of their moves but basicaaly you are a sitting duck for him to hit unless he messes up pretty hard. The CH 2B route is like mandatory if he goes full teleport dumbass but if he plays right its a pain

I'd save meter for D Atom Smasher in this matchup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attack range for adachis 2B is so small. There is no pokes with this move. So its not that good for pressure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys I could use some advice on the following video I put together for our cabbage loving murderer http://youtu.be/lbjD-ftk0co

It's a collection of what I believe are legitimate safe jumps for Adachi, but I only assumed this due to Mitsurus DP being one of the fastest in the game that these set ups should in theory work against every other character (minus Kanji cause well, machismo).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd save meter for D Atom Smasher in this matchup

 

Thanks for this. The large invincible frames and + on block makes sense.

 

http://youtu.be/fDbpzuf7sJk

http://youtu.be/uXBxCBHfGkw

 

(Please excuse my sloppy play. Minazuki gives me fits, I think I'm developing a complex...)

 

From my observations, sweep is hard to use as a spacing tool because you move your hurtbox along with you... Minazuki in particular is in the air a lot of the time.

5C often loses to his swords as well (it's just too slow).

 

so, I suppose it goes without saying, that against characters that have more range than you (which is gonna be a lot of characters!), you are going to be on the defensive, most of the time. That doesn't necessarily mean all hope is lost, though, since you have to take into account all of your defensive options; not just DP (which is very important) but roll and AOA.

 

Rolling out of pokes, depending on the poke used, seems to be a good way for Adachi to get closer aside from airdashing/jumping in. Being able to actually do anything afterwards, though- I think this will be more move-specific, as in you confirm what whiffed, and then decide if you want to try punishing it or not. (This is also related to how close you are- if you have to run in for a 5A or 5B you might as well just do 5C instead, and sometimes you don't have enough time for 5C.) A lot of times it is just running away since you might not end up with advantage, but you definitely need to find a place to roll out of the corner, as counterpoking becomes impossible due to your lack of range and speed.

 

AOA, I think, is maybe more important than sweep and 5C in neutral. You have large range with it, but the big thing is that you have guard point for quite some time on the approach (starting on the 10th frame). so, if the opponent is bullying you with pokes to keep you out, AOA acts like an advancing shield. I have to wonder about the damage on it though, you get corner carry but I'm really not impressed (as compared to Minazuki's freakin' 4k AOA... that crosses up...)

 

 

I'll stick with Adachi for a little while longer, I'll go through and make a punish list for Minazuki soon and post it in the matchup thread.

But seeing people whiff or do something that leaves them wide open and not being able to do anything about it is driving me nuts... I need to remember to use C Atom Smasher more often.

 

 

And whiffing 5B on an anti-air 5AA is bull. Uuuuugh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we talking about CH punishes? If so you can get a lot from CH 5B provided you have meter.

 

Also IIRC AOA's super armor takes a while to kick in? Maybe after the sweep startup or so. And rolling is not really that useful unless they're mashing buttons like idiots/you get a pretty good read

 

Don't even try to roll a lot on Minazuki or he'll end up sucking your meter/life and give it to himself with his command grab.

 

 

And whiffing 5B on an anti-air 5AA is bull. Uuuuugh.

 

Then go 2B if that's the issue.

 

I'l watch those videos later. Can't ATM.

 

EDIT: You should post them on the critique thread anyway.

 

EDIT 2: 2B after anti air 5AA MIGHT be a litlle tight? Maybe you can 2C/Jump 5A>Jump>5B?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meaty 5A seems to be extremely important. I have a habit of backing off from a knockdown (ala DOA/VF/etc.) but it seems to me that if you're not doing meaty 5A every chance you can you're not playing Adachi. Of course you have to watch out for reversals, but that's just how it is. Adachi has no neutral game so I think you're just gonna have to roll the dice like that.

 

Regarding defense with roll/DP/AOA, there's also backdash/space out whiff punish.

 

Depending on the move being whiffed, I think 236AA may be good as a whiff punisher, as you seem to recover fast enough to continue pressure. 4f startup is nothing to shake a stick at, though I have to wonder how long it takes to get in and out of stance at its fastest.

 

 

5AA > 5B > 5C(4) > 2AB > 214A builds just 3 less meter than autocombo. So, the only reason to use autocombo is either to go into Heat Riser B or to build your burst. It's 5AAAA (the tackle) in particular that builds the burst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meaty 5A seems to be extremely important. I have a habit of backing off from a knockdown (ala DOA/VF/etc.) but it seems to me that if you're not doing meaty 5A every chance you can you're not playing Adachi. Of course you have to watch out for reversals, but that's just how it is. Adachi has no neutral game so I think you're just gonna have to roll the dice like that.

 

Regarding defense with roll/DP/AOA, there's also backdash/space out whiff punish.

 

Depending on the move being whiffed, I think 236AA may be good as a whiff punisher, as you seem to recover fast enough to continue pressure. 4f startup is nothing to shake a stick at, though I have to wonder how long it takes to get in and out of stance at its fastest.

 

 

5AA > 5B > 5C(4) > 2AB > 214A builds just 3 less meter than autocombo. So, the only reason to use autocombo is either to go into Heat Riser B or to build your burst. It's 5AAAA (the tackle) in particular that builds the burst.

why does his tackle give him so much burst meter build.

 

I personally don't like his auto combo compared to the rest of the cast and even knowing that it helps build burst I'll probably still not use it.

 

Also can Adachi get good damage off of a one more from a throw or is that a waste of meter? (i just can't find any routes myself)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's something you could possibly do with Fear/Evil Smile.

 

http://youtu.be/CQw8_E87w3o

 

I'd say about... maybe within 1/3rd of the screen, you can start thinking about using 214AB, which tracks. If it hits, you can dash in and use momentum 5B to get a nice little combo.

Because it's fatal, you get a little more time to dash in for the link between Sweep > 214AB and 5B.

 

why does his tackle give him so much burst meter build.

 

It's just in the autocombo, mind. 236AA doesn't really build anything by itself.

 

Also can Adachi get good damage off of a one more from a throw or is that a waste of meter? (i just can't find any routes myself)

 

About 2k. Adding any more meter other than the OMC doesn't really help.

 

Same for the air throw (about 2k).

 

I would rather go for Megidola + Heat Riser B though when it comes to throws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's something you could possibly do with Fear/Evil Smile.

 

http://youtu.be/CQw8_E87w3o

 

I'd say about... maybe within 1/3rd of the screen, you can start thinking about using 214AB, which tracks. If it hits, you can dash in and use momentum 5B to get a nice little combo.

Because it's fatal, you get a little more time to dash in for the link between Sweep > 214AB and 5B.

a different route I do is evil smile to 214AB->66->5B->5C->Sweep->236BB->236236B->2C->214214A uses 125 meter but does 4032 dmg

 

also are their any suggestions on how to beat Marie's j.C

-using a 5D from anywhere on the screen will get Adachi hit and lose a card

-using a 2D will just make you lose a card but can still block marie and cant punish her

-you cant counter assault it in time to destroy a card either

- a well timed 2C can hit her and let marie lose a card but at the same time if it isn't used right then she will hit Izanagi and adachi so its high risk high reward

I feel like this move is almost unpunishable unless you block it right when she throws it out in the air

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maries j.c is annoying if spammed. But yea 2B or, if you can read her jumps, AB. Adachis AB seems to have a protective start up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my quick reference, if anyone wants it.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hu2C4DGAtx4rDGSMIj4f5OR_-YlWEb5jpeFt3xw-tuU/edit?usp=sharing

 

This is pretty much what I'm going to be using. Everything might not be optimal, but I strictly play online (and I have crap execution).

 

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of things I'll like to talk about:

 

Punish:

 

These punishes feel bland to me. By making the difference between punish and whiff I assume that you mean punish "for moves with short recovery that I should punish fast" and by whiff "Long ass bait that you're going to regret"

 

If we're using 5C as a punish you also have to consider that you need meter to get a punish that goes beyond 2K or so if you don't feel confident to IAD'd it. Also remember that the hitbox is tricky sometimes and you can end up throwing them away.

 

As a punish you should add CH 5B (Full) to sweep to EX Gunshot to loop. It does about 3K so I'd say its pretty good

 

Whiff Punish

 

Why evil smile and 236AA?  I'd assume that we're talking about big punisher here since you have 2D. If you have time to do those you can just 5B them on the face to loop. Yeah sure if you have the time to ES you can get big damage of it but I'm not so sure about this.

 

Also how come you don't mention J.5C? On Ch it creates a slide state which you can capitalize on in the corner for over 3k meterless or so.

 

Pokes

 

I only want to talk about the AOA because it'll sell you for good.

 

Invuln

 

C Atom Smasher is not invuln I believe. If you test it vs Wings of Purgatory C loses, D Wins and SB I'm not sure

Ghastly wail D is not as fast as C so C should be your go to reversal. Mandala A is also pretty fast (catches backdashes)

 

Combos:

 

This weekend I should work on a Slide State Route Guide (Which in my opinion is very important to Adachi players). The quality is not going to be good because my current recording set is busted but It should give you an idea on how to extend and add damage to Adachi's combos. Your combos are fine, just add the 5B CH route.

 

Also in most of your combos that end on 2C you can end with 2D but only if you're in the corener. It should add 300-500 damage or so.

 

 

Aside from everything you've written I'd add a "reversals" tab and I'd say you're good to go.

 

EDIT: You can get a lot from counter/fatal 2D. http://youtu.be/E792fcVUJP0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By making the difference between punish and whiff I assume that you mean punish "for moves with short recovery that I should punish fast" and by whiff "Long ass bait that you're going to regret"

 

Well, er... I come from 3D land, these are 3D terms.

Generally, a "punish" is an attack meant to punish a move used by the opponent that has severe disadvantage on block (so much so that they can't block for a short while after using them).

A "whiff" is whenever they miss a move (do not connect on hit or block); a "whiff punish" refers to either the act of reacting to or anticipating them missing, and hitting them during their attack animation (usually during their recovery).

 

If we're using 5C as a punish you also have to consider that you need meter to get a punish that goes beyond 2K or so if you don't feel confident to IAD'd it. Also remember that the hitbox is tricky sometimes and you can end up throwing them away.

 

Taking the example of Minazuki's All Out Attack, which is -22 on block; IADing for a punish combo takes too long (it'd have to be really, really negative). 5C is supposed to be the meterless punish option, so if it throws them away for some reason it just means "you should have spent meter".

 

As a punish you should add CH 5B (Full) to sweep to EX Gunshot to loop. It does about 3K so I'd say its pretty good

 

I'll have to think about this. See, a lot of times, disadvantaged moves come with pushback, so you'd end up having to run in to land 5B.

Running in takes valuable time, time you could have saved using 5C or 2AB standing in place instead.

We don't know the startup on 5B apparently so I wouldn't know how effective it would be as a punisher (I am assuming it is faster than 5C or 2AB, but you have to take into account the short range).

 

I didn't know CH 5B linked into sweep. That's pretty cool. As far as punishes go though, CH 5B > Sweep > 214AB... does 2817 damage; the exact same combo without the 5B starter (just Sweep > 214AB...) does 3013.

And generally, if you're punishing a move where hitting them during their recovery causes counterhit, it means they're really disadvantaged and it'd be much easier to just go for sweep instead of running in to 5B.

 

Why evil smile and 236AA?

 

Evil Smile hits fullscreen (well, you have to aim it). If the opponent whiffs moves at 3/4th or fullscreen, and they remain standing, you might be able to sneak in one.

 

236AA I covered above. 4 frame startup and good range means it would be pretty good for whiff punishing (it's also unsafe on block, which is usually the standard sign of a whiff punish move, like Ryu's cr. HK for example; fast, good range, very unsafe.)

 

Jumping for j.C would take way too long to punish any whiffs. Usually you don't get counterhit state as you're trying to hit the opponent during their recovery frames.

 

I only want to talk about the AOA because it'll sell you for good.

 

I don't understand.

 

AOA can be thrown, and it can be supered if the opponent keeps you in blockstun and they are aware enough, but just letting the opponent know "I will use this" should make them a little more hesitant during footsies.

 

C Atom Smasher is not invuln I believe. If you test it vs Wings of Purgatory C loses, D Wins and SB I'm not sure

Ghastly wail D is not as fast as C so C should be your go to reversal. Mandala A is also pretty fast (catches backdashes)

 

It is, check the frame data. Atom Smasher C is invulnerable for 16 frames, starting from the first frame.

Ghastly Wail C doesn't have invulnerabilty frames listed (though testing it, they seem to be there)... D and CD are going to leave you some more room for error, though.

Magatsu Mandala A doesn't have invulnerabilty frames listed either- but I have been counterhit out of it before, so that's why it's not there. I am assuming that the invul frames start on frame 4 since the SB version starts on frame 4. (Ugly thing, if you are counterhit out of Mandala, it's always Fatal.)

 

This weekend I should work on a Slide State Route Guide (Which in my opinion is very important to Adachi players).

 

I'm considering the 236BB combos advanced stuff that's not for me right now. It doesn't work on every character in the game, so I'll only implement it later.

 

The 2C(1) > 2D corner ender needs CH or FC on the starter a lot of the times in my experience (at least with the routes I use); the enemy ends up teching out and dodging 2D, leaving you open. Since it's not applicable in a wide variety of situations I left it out.

 

Aside from everything you've written I'd add a "reversals" tab and I'd say you're good to go.

 

The "Invuln" tab is the reversals tab, pretty much.

 

 

236AB has strike invulnerability frames and projectile invulnerability frames? Damn, wish I knew the numbers on that...

 

FC 2D requires you to be close to get anything from it (activating 2D up close is pretty risky...) In the video you land it on an opponent who's midair already...

The best I can get is 5B > 2B > 2C and that is right next to them, any further and they tech out.

I don't think I'll be able to use this in normal play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meaty 5A works because 214C has no invincibility. That is to say, hitting them with Megidola over and over gives them a reason to mash out. Welcome to meaty city.

 

(Which brings up the question... if you know you're going to land CH 5A 'cause it's meaty... why not do meaty 5B? Hmmm...)

 

I have to say though, gambling like this all day every day is not doing anything for my cardiac health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the whole IAD thing Drake and Red discussed; I think that Red was talking about CH 5C>IAD>j.C>combo.
For example: CH 5C>IAD>j.C>microdash 5B>5C>[SWEEP]>236B~B>236236B>dash 5B>2C>hop>j.C>5B>2B>2C. 4892dmg

EDIT: You can add the sweep if they're crouching or Fatal Counter state for added damage and ease

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my quick reference, if anyone wants it.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hu2C4DGAtx4rDGSMIj4f5OR_-YlWEb5jpeFt3xw-tuU/edit?usp=sharing

 

This is pretty much what I'm going to be using. Everything might not be optimal, but I strictly play online (and I have crap execution).

 

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

 

Just signed up to Dustloop just to thank you for this, and for putting in a shitton of work, not only in these threads but also the matchup specific threads. First anime fighter and y'all are making my life 20 times easier :sweat:  The only thing I have a concern about is has there been any discussion about practical OMB usages(lets be honest, some of the OMB combos in the combo thread are either like throw>omb>mjc loop or something that only happens when the planets align and you are struck by an asteroid made out of winning lottery tickets) or is it pretty much reserved for defensive use only? I assume the latter because he certainly doesn't have a Narukami 2B or Mitsuru DP to make his life easier when getting the pressure piled on him.

 

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OMB is pretty useful on Adachi but it is best used on defense. You only get another iteration so it doesnt really do that much but it is pretty useful with slide route.

Any Megidola>OMB>5B>5C>2C>hop>5C>236BB(slide hit) 5b>2b>2c and i dont know if you can get 2D on the end but i think you do? This should do 4K or so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the whole IAD thing Drake and Red discussed; I think that Red was talking about CH 5C>IAD>j.C>combo.

For example: CH 5C>IAD>j.C>microdash 5B>5C>[SWEEP]>236B~B>236236B>dash 5B>2C>hop>j.C>5B>2B>2C. 4892dmg

 

Ahhh, OK. Thank you for this, that makes sense.

 

http://youtu.be/oYx_a8sQTb4

 

This is pretty sick. Might just have to tuck this in for later though, I don't know if I'd be able to land this online. Lots of practice in store... This does about 703 damage more than what I normally use for 50 meter, so I don't know if doing it is worth the risk of me dropping it... but, CH 5C meterless with the IAD does tack on 985 damage. Hmm, I wonder where I should set the threshold for "not worth the execution difficulty"... How much extra damage do I need to go "I need to attempt this every time"...?

 

And thanks for this again... Fear just got a lot better!

 

http://youtu.be/X63DAevYfk8

 

Makes throwing out 5C at range actually worth something.

 

The only thing I have a concern about is has there been any discussion about practical OMB usages(lets be honest, some of the OMB combos in the combo thread are either like throw>omb>mjc loop or something that only happens when the planets align and you are struck by an asteroid made out of winning lottery tickets) or is it pretty much reserved for defensive use only?

 

If I recall correctly... I use burst at least once a round (is that about average?) and, when I do use it, I am not using defensive burst or OMB, I am always, always going for gold burst. You need that meter for all sorts of things, from 214AB to 3k off Megidola, so I make gold burst a priority. (Thanks to people in the topic for suggesting it in the first place.)

 

Adachi is extremes; short range, long range, no middle. High close pressure, poor defense, no middle. If you're getting pressured you're just supposed to wait, 'cause you're the one who's supposed to be all over them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×