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[P4AU] Tohru Adachi Gameplay Discussion

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Ah so you misunderstood me. Oh well it doesn't matter as long as you end up getting what I meant.

 

But yeah this on the corner allows for pretty big punishes (over 6K if you have enough meter for Riser I believe)

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Thank you showing me the beauty of 236AA as a whiff punisher my friend, the knockdown it gives also allows Adachi to go for a safe jump with j.B (same concept as the ones I posted).

But that's not the best part, with 50 meter it allows for a follow up with 236236A (which gives you plenty of time to hit confirm it). The combo goes as follows, 236AA > 236236A > (66)2C > 2AC > j.C > 5B > 2B > 2C, 3264 Dmg or you could go for fear.

I would only use stance cancels for pressure, but with 50 meter Adachi turns into a whole different beast for whiff punishing.

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But that's not the best part, with 50 meter it allows for a follow up with 236236A (which gives you plenty of time to hit confirm it). The combo goes as follows, 236AA > 236236A > (66)2C > 2AC > j.C > 5B > 2B > 2C, 3264 Dmg or you could go for fear.

 

Dear diary: Today I learned that 236236A can be followed with a full combo. Yo...

 

The timing feels tighter than 236236B combos. I guess I just need to practice, though.

 

In any case, thank you for this. Adachi really needs 236AA in some matchups (i.e. Yukari) and I just got a big powerup for that, that's great.

 

---

 

So I guess... it took me 4 days to really lock down a gameplan.

This is how I play now (should these go in the video thread?)

 

http://youtu.be/CWAtE7r1RPg

http://youtu.be/l6F4IAf_n2k

http://youtu.be/nNphk2l67vU

http://youtu.be/sZEYzl4F4Z8

http://youtu.be/ENXgoUWaTVg

 

Just to give an example.

 

(A few notes; Rise's Furious Action is not like Naoto's, the laser always fires; and 236AA is not just for whiff punishing but it can also be used to cover distances faster than Adachi's dash, at the cost of possibly putting you at disadvantage when you recover.

 

Also, 2AB sometimes goes under Yukari's arrow super for some reason.)

 

I'm a little upset with CH 5C > IAD > j.C combos... It seems spacing/move specific, i.e. if you are too close you end up airdashing over their head. (Or maybe this is just against crouchers?) This happen to anyone else?

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I'm a little upset with CH 5C > IAD > j.C combos... It seems spacing/move specific, i.e. if you are too close you end up airdashing over their head. (Or maybe this is just against crouchers?) This happen to anyone else?

 

My go-to punish is 5C > IAD > jC > 66 > 5B > 2B > 5B > whatevers

 

Even on accidental cross-up, the 5B is given enough time to confirm. If you're worried about connections, 5B > Sweep will work as well.

 

I'm finding the slide hit to be a great optimal in the corner, but perhaps it's just my terrible internet connection, but I'm dropping it against players more often than I do in training. It's quite tricky to connect sometimes. Nevertheless, 236A is a great choice especially if you want to push them into the corner more and more.

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Finally found it! The key to land the slide route!

 

It's not height based as I thought before. It's all in the juggle.

 

Basically what determines if you'll get the slide or not is the J.C part of the loop. You need to delay it as much as possible for the slide route to land. This way Adachi lands on the ground almost at the same time as the claws are done so you can inmediatly go slide.

 

I've found this theory to be actually succesful. Let me know what you guys think because I think that if we get this right Adachi's damage goes pretty high!

 

Some things I've tested so far (Non-HeatRiser Buff)

 

Midscreen (pushed a bit to any side) Sweep>SBGunshot>Dash>5B>2C>Hop>delayJ.C>236BB>Dash>5B>2B>J.2C>J2.D (3538 dmg, 25 meter required,8 meter gain) 3890 with riser

Corner Sweep>SBGunshot>5B>2C>Hop>delayJ.C>236BB>5B>2B>J.2C>J2.D (3538 dmg, 25 meter required,7meter gain) 3890 with Riser

 

It also opens for posibilities in awakening to go Ghastly Wail if you have the meter. I've tested non-Mandala GW vs Mandala GW and I was surprised to find out that Mandala GW only deals 500 more damage. But the poison deals more damage so I don't know...

 

Anyway this deals 500 more damage than our loop route on midscreen but in the corner it gives us much more damage. I'll be sure to continue testing this,

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Behold! I have come out of lurking to share what I know about Adachi's slide route.

 

I've been testing the slide quite a bit over the weekend and Red's correct in terms the juggle is very important to get 236BB to slide. However there are 2 other factors I observed that affect whether or not the juggle causes a satysfing slide or a dissapointing throw; the height of when you land your 5B to into 2C>J.C>stuff and your opponents hit box. Here's what I mean;

 

Red's corner 3538 dmg is good, but I can make it slightly better by adding a 5C after first 5B to make; Corner Sweep>SBGunshot>5B>5C>2C>Hop>delayJ.C>236BB>5B>2B>J.2C>J2.D.

This does 3902 dmg w/out Riser and 4290 with Riser. The caveat is this combo works on everyone but Kanji, Yukiko and both Shos (can't test on Margaret, don't have her). Against those 4 you omit the 5C I added otherwise it will always grab. A similar route with same rules can be done off of a 5D starter for all the unblockable enthusiasts. Corner or Close to it>5D>5B>5C>2C>Hop>delayJ.C>236BB>5B>2B>J.2C>214A(3297 dmg w/out riser, 3621 dmg with).

 

The height thing comes in when you're doing more advanced combos. With sweep or 5D its very easy to get a consistant height with your 5B when you hit them, this is harder to do (for me anyway) with combos where you connect it off of 236236B. So for example: 5AA>5B>5C(1)>236AA>236236B>5B>stuff into slide. I found that if 5B hits them too low you will have to adjust your J.C timing to be a bit sooner, otherwise it will likely grab. But anyway, those are my observations on the slide route so far. Its good damage wise, but can be very finnicky depending on combo routes. Online lag will likely kill me.

 

Also on the topic of poison; I've eyeballed it and I believe poison off of 5C or J.C under mandala will deal about 100dmg per second, over 5 seconds. So that's 500 "invisible" damage on top of your combo if you have at least 1 5C/J.C in it. The time refreshes for every subsequent 5C/J.C, effectively increasing Adachi's combo dmg by a good 600-800 dmg from the sweep/5D combos alone. You can probably get more if you had a good counter or fatal starter with lots of C buttons in it. Anyway that's all I got, back to obscurity.

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Midscreen (pushed a bit to any side) Sweep>SBGunshot>Dash>5B>2C>Hop>delayJ.C>236BB>Dash>5B>2B>J.2C>J2.D (3538 dmg, 25 meter required,8 meter gain) 3890 with riser

Corner Sweep>SBGunshot>5B>2C>Hop>delayJ.C>236BB>5B>2B>J.2C>J2.D (3538 dmg, 25 meter required,7meter gain) 3890 with Riser

Anyway this deals 500 more damage than our loop route on midscreen but in the corner it gives us much more damage. I'll be sure to continue testing this,

 

Wait, aren't these the same combo with the same amount of damage?

Did you make a typo or something?

 

Anyway, as I said before... Where is the threshold for "not worth the execution difficulty"? Even taking Steve's 3902 combo which lands in the best case scenario- it does 677 more damage than the route I use.

Consider that:

 

1) The height requirement (if Steve is correct) on 5B is a drop point.

2) The delay on j.C is a drop point (you may delay it too long and the j.C doesn't come out)

3) If you are too quick on the j.C or otherwise mess up the combo, 236BB will catch and throw your opponent out of the corner (very very bad!!!)

4) It doesn't work on all characters, so if you're playing unconsciously, that's a drop point.

 

Now, given all this, and the time you have to spend practicing this to get it consistent- is the risk worth 677 damage in the best case scenario?

I'm not convinced.

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Hm. I must have gotten the Megidola combo I was writing mixed with the other one. My bad, yes, it is a typo.

 

As we've already mentioned this is almost corner exclusive because of the risk it takes. However if you DO take it it allows Adachi to get far more damage on his combos. 677 might not look like much but we should still be exploring this route. (especially if we assume we have Heat Riser on)

 

Let's face it we only get our most damaging combo (mandala GW) if all the planets align so I'll take the chances I get to do damage. You also need to consider that in this route the poison should do more damage (?) because you get a reset and more time thanks to the slide.

 

We should explore this route more and see if the reward surpasses the risk because Drake is right. This route is not easy and has a lot of downsides.

 

I seem to be fined with it though. It's like a double-edged sword so you are all free to use it or not.

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I say the slide route is worth learning to an extent and here's how I justify it:

 

1st, slide route doesn't affect just 1 or 2 routes. It can affect most major routes where Adachi has to spend meter. With the slide route, while the difference is not in the thousands, you would be upping the damage of most of his repetoire. This on the other hand can be felt when a bigger portion your meter-dependant combos are doing 300-600 more damage. This also brings me to the 2nd point: Adachi is meter hungry, incredibly so. On sweep alone you spend 25 sp and sacrifice almost all meter gain for that extension. If possible yes, I would like to take that extra 677 damage. I think this goes double for your unblockable set ups where you burn 50 SP for mandala buff + another 50 SP for Riser's rage status.

 

Finally the nice thing about the slide route is that if you feel that your 5B height is off/you're not confident enough/your connection is being a dick, you can opt out of it. You have time to decide up until J.C whether or not you want to attempt the slide.

 

The way I learned it is for now just focus on getting the slide from stuff where it is easy to get a consist 5B; sweep and 5D. During those routes the most problamatic drop point (in my case anyway) is getting the J.C timing. Other than that if you can master the usual J.C loop, adding the slide isn't too painful once you know how it behaves. Especially compared to landing instant air dash J.C after 5C.

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Does any one kno how to get past challenge 25? The max i get is 5.4k. I start the opponent off with fear and stats boosted then go with Jc, 5b(1x) 2b, jc, omb, 2c, 236AB-a, ghastly whale (CD vers)

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Good posts on the slide route guys, should be helpful to everyone!

 

 

Does any one kno how to get past challenge 25? The max i get is 5.4k. I start the opponent off with fear and stats boosted then go with Jc, 5b(1x) 2b, jc, omb, 2c, 236AB-a, ghastly whale (CD vers)

 

Pretty simple one you can do for challenge 25: (Mandala, Heat Riser, Fear up) jC > 5AA > 5B > 5C(1) > B Heat Riser > 5B > 2C > hop > jC > 5B > 2B > 2C > 236ABB > D Ghastly Wail.

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Sweep>SBGunshot>5B>5C>2C>Hop>delayJ.C>236BB>5B>2B>J.2C>J2.D.

 

I've confirmed this is max damage you get with a regular scenario (no CH, no FC). There are other routes but they all end up dealing less damage so this should be the regular go-to combo for those new to the slide route (remember this is corner only)

 

I found a good 5K Non-Riser combo with the slide + Fear. It goes like this (Requires IAD'ing)

 

FC 5C>IAD>J.C>Full 5B>5C>Sweep>SB Gun>5B>5C>2C>Hop>J.C>Slide hit of 236BB>5B>2B>2C>2D (4919 dmg, needs 25 meter builds crap meter (4%)

 

Slide route is easier without the 5C if you don't feel like complicating yourself too much. It's a good FC punish for just 25 meter.

 

Also I found a corner getaway combo in one of Pet's Videos. It requires a bit of spacing in the corner but it deals a good amount of damage:

 

5B>236BB>Wall Slam>5C>2C>Hop>J.C>5C>2B>J.B>J.2C>J.2D (3934 dmg)

 

However I find landing the second 5C might be a bit problematic so you can just omit that for 5B>2B>2C>2D. Deals 3659 dmg but it's easier to do and might require less spacing

 

 

Good posts on the slide route guys, should be helpful to everyone!

 

 

 

Pretty simple one you can do for challenge 25: (Mandala, Heat Riser, Fear up) jC > 5AA > 5B > 5C(1) > B Heat Riser > 5B > 2C > hop > jC > 5B > 2B > 2C > 236ABB > D Ghastly Wail.

 

It's even easier:

 

Use Mandala, Riser and Fear on your opponent

 

SB Heat Riser>5B>2B>2C>236ABA>DGhastlyWail

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It's even easier:

 

Use Mandala, Riser and Fear on your opponent

 

SB Heat Riser>5B>2B>236ABA>DGhastlyWail

 

Welp, can't get any easier than that!

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So Sunday I was dicking about training as adachi to learn ways to cover my reckless use of his dp. Turns out (probably like others) it's super cancel able and anything but ghastly wail connects. Any good ideas for a quick punish to super if it isn't a waste?

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So Sunday I was dicking about training as adachi to learn ways to cover my reckless use of his dp. Turns out (probably like others) it's super cancel able and anything but ghastly wail connects. Any good ideas for a quick punish to super if it isn't a waste?

 

DP> A Mandala is about it.

DP>A Riser is for the install on emergency

DP(1hit)>B Riser is only useful if you have Mandala available for unblockable

DP>Atom Smasher is a waste of meter

DP>Ghastly Wail doesn't work because Ghastly Wail is a grab

 

CH DP>5C and FC DP>5B LOOP are legit things.

 

But yeah you can't get that much off his DP

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If you're confident the opponent doesn't forward tech on your DP, with a Mandala buff you can DP > Heat Riser for unblockable 5D. It's usually only good once or twice before they wise up, but it's a great reversal setup, especially since on wall splat a max range 5C > 2C is unburstable due to silence. They just eat the loop and throw follow-up.

 

EDIT: Nevermind looks like Red's already mentioned it. :x

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Hello everyone! Long time lurker, but decided to join the discussion! One thing I seem to have a problem with is when someone spaces me out, and starts to jump-in pressure me like crazy during my j.c intros or just in general to keep me locked down. What usually occurs is ill be jumping in to do j.c and they will jump just high enough to go over it and hit me, costing me a persona card. What would be the best go-to punish for this situation? I realize I may be too dependent on j.c, but usually to counter this I just do j.b instead to hit them out of the air. I feel like there could be something better for me to use to punish this if I know its what they are doing.

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I don't think there's a huge punish you can get. If j.B works that's fine since CH j.B drops them to the floor. You could try air throw/airdash in air throw too.

 

You could just let them jump and aim for 2B but the reliability on this is... I think it might be matchup-to-matchup. Against some characters it's CH 2B all day, huge damage, others I'm lucky if I get a 2B > 2C.

 

 

You could try to backdash out of their range and see if they whiff when they land so you can 236AA, or walk back into 2B range or something... I haven't actually done that, though, so I can't say how good of a suggestion that is.

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Hi guys. Not an Adachi player, but I had a question- a friend was experiencing the unblockable resets from Adachi a lot, and it was causing a lot of salt for him. I don't know a lot about the reset(s), but from what it looks like, people in general don't use them in matches almost ever. Is there a reason for this, and the resets are impractical for some reason, or is it just underutilized and the people my friend is fighting are doing the right thing?

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Hi guys. Not an Adachi player, but I had a question- a friend was experiencing the unblockable resets from Adachi a lot, and it was causing a lot of salt for him. I don't know a lot about the reset(s), but from what it looks like, people in general don't use them in matches almost ever. Is there a reason for this, and the resets are impractical for some reason, or is it just underutilized and the people my friend is fighting are doing the right thing?

 

Your friend might be doing a couple things bad so I'd like to ask you:

 

Are we talking about Ziodyne reset or Slap>Wall Slam reset?

 

I'd like to know before answering. Your friend might also be using the wrong version of Heat Riser to get you raged and unwillingly allowing you to tech way earlier before the Zio comes up.

 

Fair Warning, Ziodyne reset in the corner is ass.

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Hi guys. Not an Adachi player, but I had a question- a friend was experiencing the unblockable resets from Adachi a lot, and it was causing a lot of salt for him. I don't know a lot about the reset(s), but from what it looks like, people in general don't use them in matches almost ever. Is there a reason for this, and the resets are impractical for some reason, or is it just underutilized and the people my friend is fighting are doing the right thing?

 

There are a couple of legit resets, namely the ones that end in 2C grab corner carry into 5D (so they're all the way across the screen raged up), and 5B > 5C knockaway > 5D. If the Adachi just goes into a normal Heat Riser combo (or just willy-nilly Heat Riser A) an air tech forward into a dash or something like that might escape the Ziodyne. it's not super practical when you've got them right up against the corner too (you need some space so they don't tech out of or hit you out of Ziodyne). I've also been hit out of it by full-screen Sho super (if you are playing a character that has that sort of thing without needing their Persona).

 

As for people not using them, well, there are probably a couple of reasons for that. The game just came out in NA so people are still learning them; also, the setups require you to set Magatsu Mandala, which isn't easy (fatal recovery, invulnerability frames start on frame 4, unsafe on block), and if you land Mandala (to my knowledge) you can't commonly combo after it afterwards, and the recovery is so high that you lose your momentum.

 

Er, to put it in perspective,

 

- need to enter Awakening, i.e. you need to be losing

- need to set Mandala; so either you have to land a combo, or you have to do 2C/2D into Mandala and hope your opponent gives you enough time to just do this in front of them (characters like Yukari won't let you)

- after setting Mandala you need to jockey for position and land one more combo, preferably into Heat Riser B (not the easiest thing to do).

- and of course you need 100 meter for all of this.

 

They work a lot of the time when all the cards line up. I always go for it when I can.

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It's so impractical I want to puke.

 

But Yeah Drake is right. If your friend doesn't meet the requirements, he's not doing the reset right. A Riser allows for early tech and break the Ziodyne if that's what your friend is doing.

 

You can actually combo off Mandala and might as well through the practical stuff out of the window as well.

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