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[P4AU] Tohru Adachi Gameplay Discussion

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Wouldn't call myself an expert Adachi by any means, since I'm still getting my feet wet with the NA version, but this should be a good learning experience for me, and I'd be down for Saturday depending on time of course.

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I was trying this out because it worked in a match i had:

5AA~2B~2C(opponent blocks it) then air dash J.A, J.B~continue pressure

Sorta a pressure thing i guess. The 2C's obviously unsafe but i dunno....it seemed to catch my opponent off guard.

What do you guys think?

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OVERBOOKED. WE'RE OVERBOOKED (for this week, we'll see on later editions)

 

 

I was trying this out because it worked in a match i had:

5AA~2B~2C(opponent blocks it) then air dash J.A, J.B~continue pressure
Sorta a pressure thing i guess. The 2C's obviously unsafe but i dunno....it seemed to catch my opponent off guard.
What do you guys think?

 

You're going to have to elaborate on this.

 

2C is a grab. Blocking doesn't work. Do you mean that you use 2B as a launcher and then you press J.C and use the fact that they block it to air dash and use J.A and J.B?

 

If so I'd advice against this. There are characters with good anti-airs that can screw up this weird tactic. I'd have to see it for myself before saying more though.

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http://youtu.be/AN_OrZdZjJk

 

Assuming Chie is using DP to escape your up-close pressure, you can do this. Her DP recovers really fast, so being close enough to use 5A and then just tapping the button on reaction would be the easiest thing to do, I think.

I see, so you can hit it while it looks active.

 

This will be hard online.

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Hi guys. Not an Adachi player, but I had a question- a friend was experiencing the unblockable resets from Adachi a lot, and it was causing a lot of salt for him. I don't know a lot about the reset(s), but from what it looks like, people in general don't use them in matches almost ever. Is there a reason for this, and the resets are impractical for some reason, or is it just underutilized and the people my friend is fighting are doing the right thing?

 

Tips when your friend and the Adachi are out of awakening:

Maintain a large lead. Keep the enemy Adachi down as much as possible and don't let him apply pressure. This will keep his meter low when he gets to awakening.

 

Awakening:

Adachi will automatically get 50 meter (like everyone else does) in awakening. Understanding what Adachi wants is important. Usually, Adachi players strive to go through this list once in awakening:

 

1) Activate Mandala buff

2) Gain 50 meter (if they don't have it already) for heat riser

3) Heat riser reset

 

From what I've seen, most players don't combo to get the mandala buff, since it doesn't have to hit. Often, they will send out 2C and then activate it in hopes of catching the opponent off guard or keeping the opponent far enough away. Either that, or they catch their opponent with a DP and combo into it. 

 

When your friend puts Adachi into awakening, he needs to lock the opponent down. This way he can't send out a wakeup Mandala for a free buff. If the Adachi does a wake up Mandala over himself and not from a distance, run up to him so when it ends he can be punished during the long recovery. When locking Adachi down, be wary that he will probably DP if you charge him, since that'll guarantee a buff. Bait DPs. Expect them to happen if you run up for pressure. They aren't guaranteed, but at the lower levels they are especially likely. If Adachi's meter was kept down since the start of the game, he will have a hard time gaining the meter if you keep pressuring him. 

 

If Adachi has Mandala and 50 meter, don't play hastily. That Adachi will be hungry. Generally the better a player is, the less they let hunger for large damage compromise how they play, but keep in mind that Adachi is going to want an engage to do about 6k for 50 meter. Rise has some decent tools for when people start to play in a less safe manner. That disc she has is annoying when someone is playing sloppy. Blocking low is the best option, as his EX gunshot can be combo'd into if you're standing up and get hit by it. His AOA is easy to block and his two overheads have tiny range (Adachi usually opts for jC in air anyways). 

 

Also, if Adachi is sending out 2D like mad, break his persona! It's a free loss of cards if you break it with a quick attack. This also prevents him from using 5C after you block 2D. If you break all his cards, his buffs are gone. 

 

Adachi also might gold burst, since it gives him meter and restores his cards. If he just runs at you for no reason just block or poke him so he just gets a regular burst. Poke is probably a better option since he could run up and command grab you. I'd say DP, but be wary of baits.

 

Think that covers it. 

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OVERBOOKED. WE'RE OVERBOOKED (for this week, we'll see on later editions)

You're going to have to elaborate on this.

2C is a grab. Blocking doesn't work. Do you mean that you use 2B as a launcher and then you press J.C and use the fact that they block it to air dash and use J.A and J.B?

If so I'd advice against this. There are characters with good anti-airs that can screw up this weird tactic. I'd have to see it for myself before saying more though.

Ahhh oops i meant J.2D DX

Where M.Izanagi slashes down

So after 2B Izanagi slashes down and you can air dash and add more pressure if the opponent hasnt hit you during J.2D

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Guys, any tips for challenge 23???

 

I do everything normally but the persona 2D after the 2C doesn't link!!!

 

help 

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You don't see many people mashing on your 5AA but it's pretty useful to know this. Have you tested this vs DP's? Such as Mitsuru's or Yu's . Maybe you can space it properly so they only hit Maggie on his 5C > Free punish?

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Little update to punish list.

 

http://youtu.be/ILfFJmsAmmE

236AA or 236BB > 236236A > 662C > 2AC > jC > 665B > 2B > 2C (>2D in corner*)

 

*your likelihood of landing 2D depends on how low to the ground you hit 5B after jC. too high and the opponent can tech out

 

 

It's for those times where 5C or 2AB won't reach, and you don't want to run in. Thanks to Don Blow Jon I realized this could be used as a full combo punish, too.

 

As for the 2D corner finish for this one, personally, I hit my 5B really high by habit, so I would leave it out.

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Just wanted to say I compiled as many P1/P2 values as I could and put them on the Frame Data page, while some of them aren't as complete as I'd like and Heat Riser is a little bonkers in some cases it's as best I could get with everything I could reasonably get. For those who like looking at those things anyway, didn't bother with SMP because of the likelyhood of tons of 50s and those are a pain to calculate, basically avoid using repeating 2C or j2C in an applicable combo, though they don't share SMP between each other, 1 of each is the limit for them in a combo without murdering it. SB gunshot also has a shockingly light SMP of 200, which I should probably put on there.

 

(Also AoA values are definitely the same as other characters and it'd probably be 100% alright to copypaste but I don't like even assuming in the slightest, lol)

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Not sure if it's been posted already, but I do remember some people talking about 236AB's invincibility. A friend turned me on to this video, so I thought it should go here.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYXtt6wR5ns

 

Shows some possibly semi-practical uses to bait what seems to be 99% of the cast's DPs/supers if you know they are going to mash like the annoying brats they are. Enjoy!

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Not sure if it's been posted already, but I do remember some people talking about 236AB's invincibility. A friend turned me on to this video, so I thought it should go here.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYXtt6wR5ns

 

Shows some possibly semi-practical uses to bait what seems to be 99% of the cast's DPs/supers if you know they are going to mash like the annoying brats they are. Enjoy!

 

This is amazing! The only downside of this is how much meter he uses and the fact that his combo ender is always the awakened one has.

 

I'm gonna work on some meterless punishes.

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I really just want some numbers behind that.

 

The invulnerability doesn't start up fast enough for 5AA > 236AB > 214C to be effective against 5A/2A mashers... (ed. I see the issue now- it's not the same timing as 5AA > 236B > 214C. You have to wait for the other guy's attack to whiff.)

 

The two applications shown in the video are after throw and after 5AA > 2B > jC, two situations I just don't find myself in.

 

 

The issue, if the invulnerability takes some time to startup, is where to place it without it seeming totally obvious. My first thought is 5AA > 5B > 5C > 236AB but I can't think of anything else. (ed. ok, this is not so good. 236AB's walkspeed is kind of poor and you need 5C to cancel into, which you can't do if it's already out.)

 

(for those tl;dw types, the other suggested uses are 5A/5AA/5AAA, jC, 2AB, and 5B.)

 

Would it have use as a spacing tool? Something you did preemptively, right before the enemy rushes in? Would they be able to react?

What about as okizeme? How early do you have to time it to get it to work right, and does this create a reactable period? Would you have to cover yourself with an invincible super (the whole gambit costing you 75 meter)?

 

 

A fair warning; the video seems to imply that 214214B has enough invulnerability to cover you when 236AB's invulnerability frames end- it doesn't, don't do this, you'll only eat a Fatal Counter.

Atom Smasher and Ghastly Wail are your only options.

 

---

 

ed. ok, so, this seems to be fairly expensive.

 

if they DP, you get 5C punish or whatever.

if they use super, you may or may not have to use super to punish them.

if they stick out one singular poke or panic you may be able to sneak in a 214C.

if they mash 2A (well, depending on the character) you will have to use super to punish them since you don't have anything fast enough. (you will not be able to react to the whiff, if you overcommit to the tackle you're -10, counterhit recovery.)

if they throw you will probably have to spend meter on 214CD or super.

 

I'd save it for a rainy day but I don't know if I'd do it often.

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People might know this but I tested it and You're only invulnerable while Adachi flashes on blue

 

It's really not that great because of how short it is. Before and after that you're sold. This is basically for some pretty hard reads.

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This is basically for some pretty hard reads.

 

Pretty much.

 

Looking at the options, really the only thing this has over blocking is that you may be able to escape the opponent starting their own 5A/2A blockstring pressure. Which is... not a terribly bad purpose, to be honest.

I just wish it wasn't so damn expensive.

 

You are probably not gonna catch someone mashing if you use 236236D... if you catch them on CH you can combo off 236236C, but otherwise you blew 75 meter on 2200 damage (with poor oki if you weren't right up next to them).

You could DP, but like... ew, no.

So, it seems like things only really get cost-effective if they DP and whiff, or if you're in Awakening and you do Ghastly Wail, preferably with Mandala on...

 

If you know they mash 5A instead of 2A, it might be better, since you can just confirm the whiff, tackle for 2.4k and be done with it.

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I don't trust online enough to think most of them won't try to mash out, so I'd rather space with 2B > jC > SB gunshot, if I really, really needed to use a string with meter.

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http://youtu.be/uwE5mUegF74

 

Some options against Round 1 Fight air backdash.

 

- Evil Smile D

- move forward (walk or run), take screen position

- dash up 214B

 

I find that "smarter" players like to do this often, so maybe we can do something about it.

 

---

 

Regarding Evil Smile D (and Evil Smile in general) - I find that if I ever successfully land it, the opponent is always far, far away. At first, I thought, "oh, this is our chance for sick tip-hit FC 5C IAD combos!" but, in practice I have a very hard time landing 5C in the traditional grounded footsies sense (most people will just airdash in jB and that's your ass + a card). I think maybe the best thing to do would be to just block and wait for a 5A/2B opportunity (or sneak in a 214AB I guess). Fear lasts about 7 (real-time) seconds by my (totally unscientific) account, so maybe being patient isn't so bad. If they end up locking up because of it, you get some time to think and possibly take some screen position.

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Regarding Evil Smile D (and Evil Smile in general) - I find that if I ever successfully land it, the opponent is always far, far away. At first, I thought, "oh, this is our chance for sick tip-hit FC 5C IAD combos!" but, in practice I have a very hard time landing 5C in the traditional grounded footsies sense (most people will just airdash in jB and that's your ass + a card). I think maybe the best thing to do would be to just block and wait for a 5A/2B opportunity (or sneak in a 214AB I guess). Fear lasts about 7 (real-time) seconds by my (totally unscientific) account, so maybe being patient isn't so bad. If they end up locking up because of it, you get some time to think and possibly take some screen position.

 

I too counted 7 real-time seconds on all fear versions. As for fear itself, midscreen its somewhat unimpressive due distance and that people can outright crouch it. It might be a good *ahem* scare tactic to fish for DPs or extend your 5A combos but that's about it. Corner however I think there's potential for more intimidating stuff. While C and D fear go off screen in corner, SB fear tracks and might be a worthwhile 25 SP investement thanks to 214C/D. In corner the command grab is somewhat underwhelming unless cough up 50 SP to cancel it into riser. With fear applied, you can get a 3K meterless combo at least. 4K if you have riser buff and use slide route. Not just that, if you wait about 3 seconds before executing your command grab fear combo, you get back the meter you spent on applying SB fear and a bit extra.

 

The downside of this set up that I see is that first; you have to get them to the corner and find a way to apply regular/SB fear. Second; if they are feared and you eat a hit or a DP while trying to grab them, there goes your set up. Third; Unless you know it's coming and you are properly positioned, they can A+C dash through the command grab. Even the C version is too slow to catch on reaction. But there some solutions to some these problem.

 

Test the waters by baiting their DPs. If they do get hasty and DP, that there is a 5C fatal pain train to discourage them. If you think they are more likely to dash through, use the C+D grab. Although you can't follow it up with anything but a OMB (and IMO that's an absolute waste of a burst unless it'll win you the match), its fast enough for you to successfully keep them pinned in corner for another attempt at some fear shinnanigans. Making them more desperate to do something dumb to attempt to get out or play overly defensive so that you can command grab.

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But Megidola OMB gets you 4K meterless :v so I guess it's actuall useful.

 

Sorry, didn't word it properly. By "standard crappy grab" I meant the C+D one, not megidola. That throw is much better at catching evasives than megidola, but you can't really get much out of it damage-wise.

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