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[P4AU] Tohru Adachi Gameplay Discussion

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Sorry 'bout asking such lame questions, but there are two things I can't quite grasp yet.

First one, the slide route thing. Everyone mentions how good it is, but I just don't get it. I know it's about 236BB not acting as a throw in certain situations, but what situations are these and what does it do?

Second problem I have is the 2C>hop>j.5C. In some situations it works just fine, but I can't get the j.5C to hit after B Heat Riser. It always whiffs. I tried altering the timing a little bit, but I either whiff it again or do it so wrong, I get the 2C follow up. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

Also, blockstring 5C>2C>Ghastly Wail is awesome on people who just sit there and eat blockstrings. Such a pitty any good player knows they don't really have to be afraid to stomp Adachi first chance they get, so it's not all that good...

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Sorry 'bout asking such lame questions, but there are two things I can't quite grasp yet.

First one, the slide route thing. Everyone mentions how good it is, but I just don't get it. I know it's about 236BB not acting as a throw in certain situations, but what situations are these and what does it do?

Second problem I have is the 2C>hop>j.5C. In some situations it works just fine, but I can't get the j.5C to hit after B Heat Riser. It always whiffs. I tried altering the timing a little bit, but I either whiff it again or do it so wrong, I get the 2C follow up. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

Also, blockstring 5C>2C>Ghastly Wail is awesome on people who just sit there and eat blockstrings. Such a pitty any good player knows they don't really have to be afraid to stomp Adachi first chance they get, so it's not all that good...

 

1- Slide route is height based. Players in general feel like it's a good combo route if not a little bit too hard to do Online when a simple hop loop will deal around the same damage (Slide adds 400-600 more damage at the risk of dropping in the middle of the combo, or even worse, switching out of the corner)

 

It can be done midscreen but It's better in the corner.

 

An example of Slide route is this:

2AB>SBGun>5B>5C>2C>hop>Delay J5C for a bit>236BB>5b>2b>2c>2d. The 2D is a bit inconsistent.

 

2-Try dashing after B Riser in order to get the 2C. You should allow them to fall a bit more with this so the J5C doesn't whiff

 

EDIT: Try doing the slide RIGHT after J5C hits.

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Initial analyses done for Akihiko, Margaret, and Naoto. I think I need to get back to playing the actual game... sigh.

So many matchups, so little time.

 

2AB's low profile is the business- I knew something was fishy when I swept my way out of Yukari scumbag supering, but now I know for sure. The reason why its hurtbox is so bad and it's so poor as a spacing tool is because it's great for sliding right under chest attribute stuff. The range is great when you take that into account.

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http://youtu.be/cp4Ha6BmevY

 

10 mirror matches. Uploaded by request.

 

Some thoughts, while playing:

 

jC seems somewhat difficult to anti-air, due to its absurd hitbox that even hits behind Adachi. The sheer range can throw your timing off, if you get countered that's a free combo. (A free crouching combo if they were trying to keep their hitbox down and 2B, now that I think about it.) I guess I have to experiment with the distances and angles of its use. I shy away from it since I felt like I was getting beaten to the punch when I was doing it, but it felt like massive blockstun, massive advantage when I was fighting against it.

Maybe it's a range issue, and I wasn't dashing in before throwing followup 5As (god help you if you whiff 5A in situations like these).

 

5C sucks as a poke. I don't think I'm gonna put "don't use 5C" in matchup notes anymore.

 

Atom Smasher CD is really good. Just don't cross yourself up and do Ghastly Wail CD instead (d'oh)

 

Good to know the other side of things sometimes.

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Dude.... Drake, you are the bomb!! Really man, I am so happy to see these. I had some of the best fun on this game in those matches. I learned a LOT from these. Your notes of the matches match exactly what I was noticing also, that anti air CANNOT stop j.C 80% of the time, that atom smasher, and I just couldn't catch you off-guard with your god-tier block switching lol. Your combo potential under pressure was so good it was terrifying. I'll be taking a page from your book with how good you analyzed situations and adapted.

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So, good ole' Asura made another Adachi tutorial...it's all in JP, but it has a lot of character specific stuff. If anyone can translate some of it, it'd be greatly appreciated.

The vid: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24722681

And if anyone missed it, check out his first tutorial, it has everything you need to know as Adachi + Tech: http://youtu.be/UnmO3eKarAM

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We don't have that many OMC combos so I was experimenting with it the other day and I found some good punish OMC combos that do both high damage and good corner carry.

 

They are all based on hitting 236BB. It's possible on 236AA if it's a CH (Don't try it if it isn't) but they're made with the slide being the B one.

 

236BB>OMC(Before grab)>Opponent Slides>Dash (there's a lot of time here you get like 1/3rd of the stage)>5B>5C>2C>Hop/Cross Slash/ Slide routes.

 

Deals good damage, can be further improved with Awakening and/or with more meter

 

The big boy comes here:

 

MIDSCREEN FC 5C>IAD>J.C>5B>Sweep>236BB>OMC>Dash>5B>5C>2C>hopJC>

 

split routes:                                                                                                               236BB>5B>2B>2C>2D (don't remember the damage)

                                                                                                                                 5B>2B>2C>2D  (5.124K no Riser) (6.398 dmg with GW)

 

 

More examples:

MIDSCREEN FC 5C>IAD>J.C>5B>Sweep>236BB>OMC>Dash>5B>5C>2C>2D>236ABA>GW(D)> 5893 dmg Non Riser 6343 with Riser

 

SB Evil Smile>236BB>OMC>5B>5C>2C>2D>236ABA>GW(D) 5K damage (fear still counts for the GW)

SB Evil Smile>236BB>OMC>236ABA>GW(D) Trollier version but deals 4.520 dmg (150 meter)

CH/FC 236BB>OMC>5B>5C>2C>HOP>J.C>5B>2B>2C>236ABA>GW(d)

 

Top I've done with it is 7.4 so far with Riser + Mandala.

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Let's say you pop Heat Riser early on in the round. You later get 50 meter and you're not in Awakening or anything.

 

What do you spend the 50 meter on? Guard Cancel attacks to keep them in the corner? OMC combos, like above?

 

Save it for Awakening kusoge shenanigans?

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Let's say you pop Heat Riser early on in the round. You later get 50 meter and you're not in Awakening or anything.

 

What do you spend the 50 meter on? Guard Cancel attacks to keep them in the corner? OMC combos, like above?

 

Save it for Awakening kusoge shenanigans?

 

Relative to how much you respect your opponent and/or how close you're to Awakening. If you know you can kill with it OMC'ing is the choice to go I believe. If you're not confident you can always save it for Mandala.

 

If you're say 40% health you can 5C>DP>Mandala for desperation install. 

 

However I find myself saving the meter for Fullscreen/Fast Punish with Atom Smasher if I have doubts about killing potential

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What are you all doing for mixup/oki/pressure? His mixup seems to revolve all around 5AA. Afterwards, you can go for a grab, do stagger strings to try to bait a DP, DP yourself for a high, or go low with 5AAA or hope for a counterhit A gunshot. It seems like after you go past 5AA, all the opponent has to do is block low, react to AoA, and wait for the inevitable gap in your pressure or for gunshot. My oki so far has just been checking people with 5A, 214C, 5C, and the occasional sweep.

 

I've been looking into pressure strings post 5AA to catch DPs or people mashing on whatever and ways to start up blockstrings reasonably safely. Here's what I have so far.

 

5AA, 5B(3) into:
- 5C: This hits meaty, so it'll catch jumping/mashing buttons. If they DP, the DP will only affect the Persona from the characters I've tested (Yu, Sho, Rise, and more I believe) and you get a nice counterhit 2B/5C punish. If they block, you can just go for B gunshot or a sweep.
- 236C: This also catches DPs. It actually activates Yosuke's DP and an activate hitbox appears, so you can't go for a counterhit sweep. 5C works just fine there though.
 
5AA, 5B(1), 5C(1) into:
- sweep: This hits low and meaty. Cancel into SB gunshot for combo/more pressure.
- 236C: Once again, this catches DPs.
- 214B: The safe option to end pressure.

 

The main issue with these is the opponent simply needs to block low. I guess you can keep going for sweeps to restart pressure until they start trying to press buttons to stop it, letting you go for a fear or counterhit setup. And here's one last pressure string.

 

5AA, 5B(1), 2B into:
- j.5C, 236C: catches DPs
- delayed j.5C: leads to more blockstrings (66, 5B(1), 5C, etc), catches jumping/pressing buttons, combos on crouching
- j.2D: Catches DPs. If j.2D hits, you get a short combo on fatal and oki otherwise. If blocked, (j.2D, IAD j.A, j.B, 5AA, etc) is a blockstring. You might be able to go for a low after j.2D for a 50/50, but I need to test that out. So far, this has worked really nicely for me, since people usually expect j.5C.
 
Is there any way to continue a blockstring after 2B, j.5C? (2B, j.5C, SB gunshot) doesn't seem to work, so I guess there has to be a gap there.

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snip snap long quote

 

 

It seems like it's pretty much meaty 5A as often as possible into anything you want, really. Abuse the 5A, as pitiful as the range is. Drake posted a video earlier of 5AA 5C "frametrap" to catch people mashing 5A or something against an attempted 236B>214A and I have got a lot of mileage out of that. And even though it's kinda risky you can always cancel into DP for an instant high(I've never seen anybody react to this, so I'll say it's pretty sound. 5AA>5B>DP or something like that just a whatever off the top of my head. i don't like to do it often because dat blue health is real. I've not done much testing involving it though so take this with a grain of salt) into anything you can get after, whether it's a Heat Riser or whatever. For more gimmicks you can get them used to sweep>gunshot and then in the corner sweep>236B>214B

 

As for DP safe stuff, you're on your own there. 5B(3) > 5C is pretty much the only thing I actually get rewarded for regarding dp baits. Good luck!

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Here's the pressure string I'm using:

 

5AA > 214C:

 

You have to delay the 214C to make sure it comes out. This is to keep your opponent on their toes to remind them that they can't just just hold back and be ok. This loses to upbacking and mashing.

 

5AA > delay 5B/ 5C

 

Your standand framestrap. It'll beat mashing (cept DPs) and upbacking. If you know that they're mashing DP, after 5AA just hold back to call them out.

 

Stuff >Sweep > 214AB > dash 214C or 5B

 

Same situation as above but in this case 214C will beat anymove that's slower than 5f, giving you a nice juicy FC for your troubles. Bonus is that they will likely be blocking after 214AB since they know it's ridiculously plus on block.

 

Stuff> Sweep > Hop Cancel > JB/JC> Reset pressure

 

if you manage to make them block 2AB, you can be a troll and reset your pressure with the hop cancel since they'll be looking for 214A afterward and wouldn't likely be pressing any buttons.

 

There's also your stagger pressure 5A > micro dash 5A to encourage mashing ----> punish, 5A > regular throw etc.. and don't forget our DP is an 21f overhead.

 

If you're looking for a safe jump setup that's beat most DPs. Do stuff > 5C (3) > Sweep > 236AA/ just 236AA. If you knock them down after 236AA you can do an IAD (4)JC that'll beat most of their options on wake up

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DP into super costs you 16.5% of your health, or 1.5k. That number drains down slowly, but I'm beginning to really think that unless you can make magic happen you should never, ever DP into any super, even for the buffs.

 

DP as an overhead, though... It's 23 frames (if the wiki is right), and pretty damn hard to see, even when you're looking for it. Not that it's unreactable, but it might be good in high-pressure situations where you can hit them with a DP or DP > super and kill with it.

 

(Regarding that, the damage isn't so bad, actually.

 

DP(1) > Heat Riser B > 2C 1.7k

DP(2) > Mandala A 1.8k

Near corner DP(2) > Atom Smasher D > 2C 2k

DP(1) > Heat Riser B > 2C > Mandala A 2.5k

Near corner DP(1) > Heat Riser B > 2C > 236ABA > Ghastly Wail D 3.2k

 

And of course, you get some more if your buffs are up.)

 

Sweep > DP would probably be good since I'm normally using a whole lot of Sweep > SB gunshot that naturally forces blocking low, and Adachi gets big damage (3k for 25 meter) off of crouchers with 5AA.

 

What are you all doing for mixup/oki/pressure?

 

Meaty 5A. Meaty 5B for the counterhit > Sweep > SB gunshot combo. (Sometimes the sweep catches them not blocking low.) Sometimes meaty 214C, and sometimes neutral jump jB (to take a page from Street Fighter).

 

Adachi does not have good high/low mixups, so you want to turn it into block/don't block instead.

5AA > 236B > 214C is the main tool for me, a tick throw that's very smooth and hard to defend against (there's not a noticeable delay compared to 5AA, delay, 214C, and it's a little easier for me personally to fire off commands rapidly than stop myself short).

Mix with 5AA > 5C to stop mashing and that's your basic 50/50. (though, I haven't had to use this yet in the field.)

If they DP through both options just block after 5AA and punish.

 

I'll have to use 5AA > 5B(1) > 5C(1) > 214B more often, testing shows it's truly gapless unless 5B is Instant Blocked (and 5B > 5C is the only gap then).

 

You'll want to be careful using 236C in blockstrings, as Evil Smile can't hit crouchers. Also, Magatsu-Izanagi stays out for a relatively long time (about 2 seconds?) and to make him go back in his hidey-hole you have to whiff 5C or something, which can leave you pretty open if you're too close.

 

Is there any way to continue a blockstring after 2B, j.5C? (2B, j.5C, SB gunshot) doesn't seem to work, so I guess there has to be a gap there.

 

You'd have to delay the jC to make followup SB gunshot gapless.

 

Stuff >Sweep > 214AB > dash 214C or 5B

 

Same situation as above but in this case 214C will beat anymove that's slower than 5f, giving you a nice juicy FC for your troubles. Bonus is that they will likely be blocking after 214AB since they know it's ridiculously plus on block.

 

I need to use this more often.

 

If you're looking for a safe jump setup that's beat most DPs. Do stuff > 5C (3) > Sweep > 236AA/ just 236AA. If you knock them down after 236AA you can do an IAD (4)JC that'll beat most of their options on wake up

 

Pretty sweet. Easy to do, midscreen, and off a common starter, too! I gotta start using this.

 

Looks like only really fast supers (up to 10 frames by my count) or some counter DPs (i.e. Yosuke) beat it, among other fringe options...

 

I'd advise just using 236AA instead of Sweep > 236AA, since omitting the sweep gives hard knockdown looks like, while Sweep > 236AA has them recover in the air which is no bueno.

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Adachi does not have good high/low mixups, so you want to turn it into block/don't block instead.

5AA > 236B > 214C is the main tool for me, a tick throw that's very smooth and hard to defend against (there's not a noticeable delay compared to 5AA, delay, 214C, and it's a little easier for me personally to fire off commands rapidly than stop myself short).

 

That's pretty good too though the reason why I ommit the 236B is because your opponent can be looking for the stance flash change and mash on reaction. The delay with 214C is also there to make them guess between a framestrap 5B or a CMD throw.

 

Pretty sweet. Easy to do, midscreen, and off a common starter, too! I gotta start using this.

 

Looks like only really fast supers (up to 10 frames by my count) or some counter DPs (i.e. Yosuke) beat it, among other fringe options...

 

I'd advise just using 236AA instead of Sweep > 236AA, since omitting the sweep gives hard knockdown looks like, while Sweep > 236AA has them recover in the air which is no bueno.

 

The sweep > 236AA can work off the 5A starter but requires strict timing (it's only there for extra dmg ) so yeah I would recommend going for 236AA if you want to  play it safe. It also beat Kanji's DP and that makes me happy.

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I thought of making a big thing analyzing jC, but I realized the takeaway was a bit obvious. For the uninformed (and me), the tl;dr before I even wrote anything-

 

Advantage or disadvantage on jC depends on the height it lands at, and Adachi's current downward velocity.

 

IAD jC - OK.

Forward jump jC - OK (assuming jC is pressed at the top of the jump, and not something crazy like on the way up).

Forward jump, airdash jC - Should probably be delayed (hit "deep").

Neutral jump, airdash jC - Delay. (Don't you do it too early.)

Back jump, airdash jC - OK, as long as you wait until you start to drop to airdash.

 

If you're at the spacing where you'd have to dash in to land a followup, it's better to land jC deep and 665B, and just think about using 5A if you're close enough.

 

If jC lands counterhit even though you mistimed it (did it too early to get good advantage on block) you probably get a combo anyway.

 

---

 

jC can be difficult to anti-air, as you have to react to Adachi's movement in the air- and because the hitbox is so disjointed, waiting until Adachi himself gets close is probably too late. (Waiting until Maggie pops out is most definitely too late.)

jC starts up in 13 frames, so it cannot be reacted to and must be pre-empted (opponents must hit their 2B or other anti-air early).

 

The thing is, reacting to Adachi's movement isn't necessarily too hard. Especially so for airdashes, since you're so committed to it.

 

using j2D as an anti-anti-air is gonna be dependent on the matchup. for example, Narukami's 2B reaches pretty damn high, so you have to space him to make it work.

 

If you have to delay your jC to give yourself advantage when you land, you also give the opponent more time to anti-air you. With that in mind, IAD jC, 665B is probably the best usage. Hard to react to, heavy advantage due to the low height (even when Instant Blocked), effective from about 214B range. Adding a microdash before the IAD further increases the range and advantage.

Any other type of jC is gonna carry some risk, depending on whether you can j2D mixup or not.

 

---

 

That's pretty good too though the reason why I ommit the 236B is because your opponent can be looking for the stance flash change and mash on reaction.

 

I don't think this is so easy.

 

Mashed inputs tend to be eaten by 5AA's residual blockstun a lot of the time. If you're specifically timing it, your reactions have to be pretty damn good, otherwise you're eating FC.

 

(To be honest, I never have problems with people mashing 5A through my stance cancel. I usually have problems with people mashing DP through my stance cancel, and that means I never get to use any frame traps...)

 

To each his own, though.

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Going for Atom Smasher CD and not having the execution or meter will lead to you doing Evil Smile instead.

You've been warned.

 

Has anyone been able to land slide state combos on minazuki/sho? Only characters I haven't been able to hit it on.

 

Supposedly some characters are hard or impossible to land slide state on. Sho bros fall under that, I believe.

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Sorry, have not read over the entire thread so...

 

Was watching an adachi replay mirror recently where 236AA into Heat Riser was not invalid.

 

Worth learning? I can get the entire combo notation if needed.

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Yeah, it's the Whiff Punish/Range Punish.

 

236AA > 236236A > 662C > 2AC > jC > 665B > 2B > 2C

 

Definitely worth learning.

 

Even without meter, 236AA leads directly into IAD jC safejump, so it's a good tool to have.

Well, as long as you use it for covering ground or whiff punishing, and not randomly throwing it out so it gets blocked and 5A punished ._.

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The 236AA > IAD jC safejump is very effective. It gives Adachi one more blockstring from a 5A or other stray hit, and damage, punishes, etc. if the opponent disrespects it. I highly recommend learning, using and abusing it.

 

http://youtu.be/PWk505Y9bPQ

 

A simple drill. Bind Furious Action to a button, then record mashing it for 2400 frames (until record time runs out). Go back and clear your buttons if you need to, then position reset into a corner and start by blocking and punishing the Furious Action.

I used CH 5C > IAD > jC > 5B > 5C > 236AA. (Adding hits to this makes the safejump not safe anymore, by the way.) Once you reach the other side, combo into 236BB to switch positions and start again. If you can outlast the recording you've probably mastered it.

 

You need to wait until you recover from the tackle to start inputting the IAD, or you'll jump instead (or dash 5C instead). Hitting jC after inputting the IAD can't be done too early, either (or it won't come out). You have to hold 4 during the jC's animation, as well (you can let go to confirm into 5AA combos).

 

Executing this consistently is going to be key.

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