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[P4AU] Tohru Adachi Gameplay Discussion

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Good news! Seems like most of the JP players consider Adachi to be fairly high on the tier lists. Now, keep in mind that this is just their opinion on the character, but it's always good to see some early impressions.

 

I honestly didn't think that his buffs would make up for his nerfs. I'm pretty happy I was mistaken!

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I think this has got to do with his overall gameplan getting improved. In the original patch, Adachi was a character that wasn't that good outside of Awakening, although he had an amazing comeback potential that shouldn't be underestimated at all costs. 

 

With the new patch however, Adachi became better outside of awakening, being able to use his tools freely without it being a double-edged sword (DP, 5D and Evil Smile) and getting some other improvements (Gunshot and his ground grab) but to compensate, his Awakening got nerfed by making status effects weaker and overall changing what status effects Magatsu Mandala inflicts. (RIP RAGE FUNERAL WILL BE HELD AT 10AM) 

 

 

He seems to lost his NaCl making moments and became a more fair character. I like this version of Adachi better as of now, and we'll see more once 2.0 hits the consoles.

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As some of you may already know (or not) , Evil Smile has an actual hitbox. We've been going through the possible uses of this and I've made this video to point it :

 

https://youtu.be/siNgeC376ow

 

The thing about this option is that it could be REALLY strong in 2.0 with the double gun. You see me trying to do 2.0 gunshot things, but of course, they don't work currently, so it's my way of saying "this is for 2.0". All the stuff in the corner is legit though, if they respect you until the sweep.

 

Also, using Aperture_Black's video, the tech is improved a bit more by baiting reversals and punishing them properly.

 

Please let me know what you think of this or if you find new ways to improve it! All this talk about getting better and improving our resources motivated me to make this video.

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I tried testing it further because I like finding out these little oddities, it seems to hit anything with head/foot  invul that is of course in range (so 2Bs where the char crouches don't get hit by it) also it only hits during said invul frames so while the Shos 2B has them standing during the 2nd hit, they no longer have head invul by that point and thus evil smile will ignore them as far as the hit of it goes.

 

Moves that got hit:
 

Yu: 2B 

Yosuke: 2B, 236A. 236B B+D (

Chie: 2B

Kanji: 236C (this ones odd because it only affects the persona, im guessing the persona gains a head invul property and thats why?)  236D  

Margaret: 2B

Naoto: 236B 236AB 236C (I heard her 5A got caught too which would throw this all out the window but as much as I try it doesnt seem to happen) 

Teddie: 214A 214B 214AB

Ken 2B

Labrys: 2C (only persona gets hit)

Mitsuru 5B

Adachi: 2B

Akihiko 2B, Sonic upper (8A or 8B in cyclone) 2C (persona only)  

 

 

Since its a special if it does hit you can super cancel it, and since it always hits CH there isnt really a reason not to OS a super input i guess? You can even do so with a OMB. Perhaps some super nifty setup can be made of this. Have fun 

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https://youtu.be/9RahAEJQIXc

 

Adachi routes on a crouching opponent. These seem to be max damage for 25 meter. They're rather hard to do / perhaps somewhat impractical but if you feel like you have the execution skill, then I'd say go for it. 

 

The only downside is that they don't end on a knockdown.

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To get some discussion going, let me ask this: can anyone think of a reason /not/ to use Heat Riser in a combo ASAP? The earlier you do it in a round, the bigger the defense/offense boost's impact will be, generally speaking. I see a lot of Adachi's w/ 50 meter not going for using it (almost always going for gunshot ender, which is another issue but I'll address that later), like, if you can combo into 236236B /especially/ you can still generally end w/ 2C/j.2C to get a knockdown. 

 

The only times I can think of holding off on using HR is to either A) combo into Mandala instead if you're in Awakening or B) to keep your opponent out of Awakening to make the next hit kill. Just the w/ majority of NA players I've seen, they miss out on an opportunity to increase their damage while decreasing their opponent's damage.

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A reason I can think of is the fact that the meter used for HR can be better spent. Instead of dealing 2.5k and getting the buff, you can save the meter to do 1 of 2 things:

 

1- Do HR in a proper combo. Instead of tossing full 5C > HR like usual, do a HR midcombo to get a beautiful 3.5k or even 4k in the corner. Really neat.

 

2- Save the meter and use it for something else. Instead of using the 50 SP at once, stocking up to 75 SP gives you plenty of more options. You gain access to SB Atoms Masher (The god), SB Megidola, which has good damage, speed, range, etc. making it a great tool to open people up, and you can also do SB Gunshot, good for a far away poke or for juggle combos.

 

What I usually do is stock up to 75 SP, then do either HR in a good combo, usually in the corner for an ez 4k, or get my opponent with SB Atoms Mashers (The god). When it comes down to damage alone, the meter is more helpful when used in a real confirm than when splashed around for a simple buff.

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It's important to note that the Defense buff, as the Offense counterpart, does not reduce minimum damage.

 

As Akatsuki said above, most of the time your meter goes elsewhere for better/safer options. While it is true that Heat Riser combos hit like trucks, sometimes the meter is better spent trying to open up your opponent or going for safer blockstrings with SB Gunshot.

 

I also find myself stocking up to 75 meter most of the time, especially in MU's such as Liz, Yukiko or Yukari, where I can just use it if they press any button.

 

Also Canine kinda got me into Mandala combos so I usually hold my meter for those if I'm confident.

 

To sum up, heat Riser combos are pretty good and I go for them most of the time, but sometimes it's better to use your meter into something else.

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You know how Margaret can do J22C to beat every B+D and possibly all reversals?

 

Turns out we can do it too.

 

https://youtu.be/_Xu5F6j7LE8

 

Although the video kinda explains itself, I wanted to go through some points I feel have been left unattended. First, it's very important to do sweep really fast right after 2C gets them on the ground. Otherwise, they can air tech, which is not what you want. The timing is a bit weird at first but hey if we got J2.C whiff route we can get this too.

 

I also want you guys to check if there are any supers/reversals this doesn't work against. I've been trying to mash on it a lot and most of the time I just get hit by the 2D without the super coming out, so I'd appreciate that.

 

Last, this pretty much beats every DP provided you get some distance (Yosuke and Teddie will hit you if they DP).

 

Hopefully this is something legit and not just a gimmick. Tell me your opinions when you guys have the time to check this out. All feedback is appreciated!

 

I want to make sure it's real lol

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Hi, i'm having a really hard time against a friend of mine who uses Rise and Yukari against my Adachi. The Yukari loves to zone me out with the orbs then arrows firing at me and the Rise always sees my J.C coming as i almost always approach from the air. The reason for this is he likes to block a lot and crouch, if I use 5.C or Sweep, he'd block 5.C and take a persona card or Sweep is just too slow and he'll see it coming. I don't get punished a lot with J.C but my game plan pretty much always revolves around J.C and 5.C. Has anyone else encountered this problem and what did they do to fix it? He almost always blocks and moves back, waiting for me to attack first. Usually it ends in me being punished. Thanks :)

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You have a command grab. Try to use it on people who block a lot. It doesn't deal that much damage without FC and Corner but it helps a lot when you want to open up your opponent.

For Rise I don't have that much of a problem with her 2B, but I do fight pretty few Rises. If you're getting anti-aired a lot, try to trick her into doing 2B and you do j2.D instead. If it works, you should hit her for a lot of damage. Keep in mind that if she delays it, you lose a persona card.

Yukari is a pretty annoying matchup because I feel she controlls neutral fairly well with orbs and arrows. Honestly you have to wait, try to get in without losing persona cards and then wreck her. There isn't that much to say about her, you have to play really patient and solid. She does have low health so you have to hit her hard when you do hit her.

2C/2D/Atom Smasher are pretty good in this MU.

If you're looking for very specific tips or answers against more characters feel free to ask or check the MU subforums (though they're pretty dead)

The J.C/5C part is just every Adachi ever haha. You should try to become less predictable with those, but I'd have to see you playing first to give you better advice. Do you have any videos I can use as reference?

Also if people block low a lot I like to remind them from time to time that my DP is for whatever reason an overhead. Don't try to do it constantly though.

I recommend practicing some stance cancelling grab mixups. It sounds like you just struggle really hard to open up your opponent, and those are great for that.

Some examples:

5a>5aa>236B>214D

5a>236a>214C

5b>236b>214D

Feel free to ask anything else you want.

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Thanks for the tips! :) I can provide some video but I don't have a capture device yet so the best I can do is record the screen with a steady hand. I'll upload some this weekend.  Yeah he loves to block low like all the time but knows when J.C is coming. I'll practice the combos you provided. I also forgot to mention that his Rise loves challenging my J.C in the air with her J.B (Microphone spin move) and almost always wins. I guess I get too close the her with the move but i'll upload some gameplay this weekend to showcase it. Thanks for your help! :D

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"Easier" way of using the J2.C whiff route. This one works on everyone, deals a lot of damage, and I even found a way to end in a knockdown instead of letting the opponent tech away.

As with the other one, the trick here is to get them as low as possible with the first 5C after the hop J.C. Everything else is explained in the video. I'll edit this post a bit later when I finish the followup video.

 

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Hey guys, thought I'd upload a couple counter hit combos that I THINK are optimized. The midscreen one's aren't too special; basically adacheese's variations with a couple extra hits but I don't think I've seen anyone use these corner routes before. I think they're useful cause they work universally and gain around 42-43 meter. So even if you started from 0 meter, you'll be able to heat riser cancel a megidola mixup. You can also safejump after to. 

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These are very cool thank you for your effort. I had thought that using 2C more than once in the same combo would cause the ending 2D to do a yellow beat combo or at least and air tech. You're sure the latter can't happen right? If that's the case, this is good optimization.

I might look into it if I have the time to try and squeeze a little bit more of damage but my main concern is how much advantage the 2D ender combos have. Yosuke might be able to DP on wakeup and hit you? It just looks a bit weird to me.

Other than that I'm honestly not a fan of the 2B > falling j.B combos. I'm more fond of 2B> whiff J.C for consistency, even though the falling j.B can be useful to bait bursts or get slightly higher damage combos. I can't say I fully recommend them but if you're confident, go for them. The 5B after all the juggle ending with 5C in the first combos is also a bit tricky, so I would recommend going for j.B> j.B> j.C knockdown. But again, it's just on my experience, which is a 2 bar tops most of the time.

Again, thanks for taking your time to do this video. Good stuff.

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The 2D ender in the corner only really has the problem of hitting 5B too early; if they are too high up they can air tech however I feel like there's enough wiggle room to get the timing down. I've done it in netplay with a match against radoric and we're 0 bar lol. As for a chance to be a yellow combo, I've never had that happen unless they neglected to tech when I hit the 5B too early. 

If you can squeeze in more damage please do, this is the best I've gotten though so any extra damage would be nice. The advantage on the 2D ender is fine I think; you have more than enough time to do a meaty J. B really low to the ground. As for yosuke DP, I haven't really tested that but I've never been able to get an airdash J. B to actually safejump yosuke before anyways. Even offline the timing on that is just really inconsistent for me so I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't do it. If you can, definately show me. 

The 2B > falling J. B I find to be pretty reliable and has auotpilot baited bursts for me many times in the past so I like it lol. The only time I go for whiff J. C is if I'm just uncertain how high up they'll be when I get the counter hit cause if its too high up I agree its pretty inconsistent but just my personal feeling is you can be a judge of when whiff J. C and falling J. B is better. 

As for the 5B after the 5C, maybe I've spent too much time in training mode but I feel like the timing on that isn't hard. I probably won't go for it on netplay though so I understand what you mean lol. 

 

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Hey guys, 1.1 tech might be uninteresting but just wanted to show a midscreen unblockable I've been toying with. I would like to hear your opinions. I'm aware a number of things can probably break this, but I think it is harder to stop than the side swap one. 

 

Side swap combo off CH atom smasher. It's also burst safe apart from the persona card loss and you can get a fear setup as well. 

 

This video is just some more options from things like slightly further distances, non-counter hit, and some mid-screen stuff. I'm sure everyone has seen the 2D confirm though, I just put it in there so everything felt complete. Also that counter hit on yosuke's glide I don't think is something you can do on reaction, just wanted to show its possible lol. I think I'm hitting counter hit frames on the airturn. 

 

On a final note, I think I'm the last person posting anything here on these forums so I'll make this my last for sure. I think I got one more video in me but its more of a CMV thing and that doesn't really need to be on the forums. This character was a fun ride while it lasted. 

Edited by Red
I edited this post with the rest of the vids you linked.

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