[P4AU] Marie Gameplay Discussion

[Buttface]

So people have gotten to see and play her already right. Does she move fast or slow both in the air and ground? Also do her normals look decent for poking or is she screwed in this department? She has a long vertical attack, does she have a long horizontal one that can be used in neutral? And how useful does her persona look for whatever Marie's gameplan is at the moment (which besides changing the weather to suit her needs, I assume is a sort of trap/zoning/lockdown hybrid)?

check godhand's archives on twitch, he has a bunch of footage of him messing around with her in training mode

[TD]

I don't have a twitter. Is it on YouTube or daily motion or anything besides twitter? Or Facebook.

I can look for it myself I just would like to know what his channel could possibly be if it is on yt or somewhere please. If not I can wait because she does come out in 24ish hours. Have seen exactly 0 videos of her so far.

[Buttface]

I messed up, meant to say twitch

http://www.twitch.tv/dagodhand/profile

[TD]

Ahh ok. Thank you very much.

[TransientFaith]

Hmm we're getting close to release now so here's some more ramblings from me

 

One thing I noticed about 236D is that the opponent floats a lot longer and isn't knocked back as far as if they're hit by 236C. Might be able to get a combo off of it if it hits midscreen

 

I was thinking maybe something like Crouching FC 5/2C > 236D > 5A might work. 

 

236D is definitely comboable on normal hit. You can dash and do something

FC 5/2D however has pretty crazy pushback and 5A/2A have no horizontal range...

 

 

So people have gotten to see and play her already right. Does she move fast or slow both in the air and ground? Also do her normals look decent for poking or is she screwed in this department? She has a long vertical attack, does she have a long horizontal one that can be used in neutral? And how useful does her persona look for whatever Marie's gameplan is at the moment (which besides changing the weather to suit her needs, I assume is a sort of trap/zoning/lockdown hybrid)?

 

She seems to move pretty fast on the ground, can't really tell about in the air? Does any character really move slow in the air? Her A normals have no horizontal range, 5A is pretty slow but 2A is alright. 5B has an amazing hitbox both vertical and horizontal and you can just throw that out pretty much since it cancels into just about everything

No idea what her gameplan is but 5D/2D/j.D are useless in neutral but provide decent cover as combo enders, not being to special cancel them kind of suck

5C/2C are pretty amazing tho both as spacing tools and pseudo antiairs

j.C is just funny....

[So-Called-Chaos]

Is J.2B an overhead? if so then it could give a neat 50/50 between 5b>J.2B or 5B>Sweep

[DaGodhand]

Well his twitch archive is still up but I'm not sure if he's ok with it being posted here too. Since he took down the youtube link

I don't mind it being linked. I had to take the videos down on YT because of copyright complaints from Atlus.

 

 

For her combos, from what I've seen it doesnt look like she gets much mileage off of a standing or crouching midscreen confirm. The 2B anti air combo Godhand made did about 2974 before the super ender. 3.9kish with super ender of the same weather element

 

2B > 5C > 2C > 2B > 5BB > Sweep > 214A~C > dash 2C > 5C > 236A > 236236C

That combo route doesn't work on every character. I'm still optimizing it. For sure it won't work on Teddie, Mitsuru, Yukiko, and Rise since they're light.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Apparently, Marie is now out on the JP Store. Go forth Marie minions and drown everyone's hearts in fear and despair!!!

 

On a more serious note, good luck to everyone! I'll do my best to catch up to you guys when I get the game at the NA release ^,^

[Celerity]

I'm having a lot of fun messing around with her so far. She feels like a REAL setup character, not just a knockdown/setplay character, or a character who has some mediocre zoning as an excuse for them to get in. Marie can control a lot of space, and convert real damage from everything. It feels really good.

 

The gifts seem adequate enough at keeping the opponent locked down. I haven't found any setups involving chocolate, because it's so outrageouslly slow, I'm not sure you can use it for real oki, but the fact that you can cancel either gift into your FC move or feint at any time means it will be really hard for most characters to punish you throwing them out at full screen.

 

At midrange, 5B/2B/j.B/DP all seem absurd. I'm not totally sold on 5C/2C yet as pokes, since they appear to leave the persona very vulnerable to bad trades and Marie only has five persona cards. 5D seems meh, but despite what someone else was saying, I think j.D is godlike. I've been using Rise's j.C a lot more often lately, and this move is basically just better version of that. It preserves your air options, can be great with trap cover, and if they block it you a free jump-in.

 

j.2B has an amazing crossup hitbox. Even with crossup protection, I imagine this will be hard to block, and easy to set up. By default, Marie will bounce away after it connects, but you can cancel into j.B, which will either chain, or cause her to fall immediately (for example, after midscreen IAD air turn j.2B > j.B(w)), and you can then dash 5A from there to combo or continue pressure.

 

Her mixup as a whole is just okay, like most characters in the game. AoA is bad, but you're probably going to use it, and it might be tricky to block from behind chocolate or arrows. If you get 50 meter, you can OMC the 2nd hit of 5BB/236A for a free mixup anytime you want it, which is pretty scary, and of course in awakening you can make them eat 30 seconds of Aeon Rain hell.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Thanks for posting your first impressions. It was a great read. 

 

Also, here's a tweet from MAVEN with early Marie Frame Data for those interested

[TD]

Forget my twilight coffee, this is all the energy I need in my life! She sounds very fun. Can she compete with naoto for annoying trap character? Only time will tell! But she sounds great so far.

[Surf]

Thanks for posting your first impressions. It was a great read. 

 

Also, here's a tweet from MAVEN with early Marie Frame Data for those interested

 

 

Thanks for the framedata link

 

Hm

 

She only has 2 jump cancels moves on block. And only 1 dash cancel

 

5A and 2B are jump cancel on block. 5C is forward dash cancelable on block, feels like shes 0 or -1 after the dash.

 

5B is only jumpcanceable on hit, I have no idea why though. 5BB, 5C and 2C are also jump canceable on hit only

 

Everything besides j.236A/B after 5BB leaves a gap. 5BB > 2B is DPable. 5BslightdelayB > 2B doesnt have a gap before the 2B but theres a gap before the 2nd 5B since you have to delay it to make the 2B gapless. Just it having some sort of gap there everytime makes me not want to use 5BB in pressure.

 

5BB and Igor are her FC moves. 214214C/D is Fatal Recovery

 

j.B has great horizonetal range. Ass vertical. j.2B has great vertical. Ass horizontal. Hitting them high with j.2B has her bounce backwards. Low enough and she doesn't go into the bounce. I'm experimenting with airturn j.2B in the corner since she bounces into the opponent and can continue pressure. May be able to j.B fuzzy if you do it high enough. Low to the ground and she's super plus. Plus enough for 2C to be gapless, and that's 16 frames

 

I'm not so good with creating combos so I'll be trying to find some sort of oki/setups with her the next 2 days before i play offline

 

Edit: About j.2B. It seems like you can also negate the bounce by just inputing B again. She'll cancel into j.B but land before it comes out, keeping frame advantage and negating the bounce. iad > Airturn j.2B still seems more plus than a normal iad though

 

Edit2: Combo > j.Bj.2B > j.C in the corner is a safejump. Marie goes through no landing recovery so she's able to block as soon as she lands. Problem is j.C barely has any hitstop so it's hard to see if you confirmed or not

[Buttface]

https://twitter.com/bhd_MAVEN/status/509964944305950722

additional frame data on her specials

can't read all of it, but it's for her  236A/B, 214A, 214B, 214A/B~C, present feint, 236C/D, 214C/D placement, and 214C/D activation in that order

[Eternal Blaze]

Well, Faus- I mean Marie is looking hella good. Wish her moves didn't look so godamn silly but whatevs she's fun and has hella shenanigans.

[Buttface]

Looks like the eyes absorb projectiles until they activate. Doesn't seem to be a limit to how many they absorb, either.

[Pen_Ninja]

Is there any difference between pressing the additional button to let out a present and waiting the whole duration?

 

Like doing 214A~A vs 214A and waiting...

 

Aside from the latter taking longer of course.

[Buttface]

nope, the only real reason for waiting is so you can feint or cancel into Igor for a fatal instead

[TD]

So guys. What's her ideal neutral setup looking like right now? Weather/cocoa/cloud? Maybe one of these are good enough to be used solo or as a sole priority?

[Buttface]

setting up a cloud and leaving it be, then continuing with chocolate until the cloud is gone seems to work well

or you can combo them into the cloud with something ending in 236A

 

end with sweep in the corner for present oki, otherwise do 236A as your ender and safejump them into the corner.

present/eye oki midscreen isn't really a thing that exists

Marie's a setplay/pressure character, so you don't want to sacrifice free pressure by doing a less damaging combo that doesn't guarantee you pressure

[Red]

Is that diving sparkle tackle plus on block on something? 

[Buttface]

just tested it in training mode and it's definitely plus

[Red]

I knew it. It's a pain to deal with it online.

 

Guess I'll have not to get hit with it then.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

MAVEN tweeted frame data on Marie's supers over the night. So just for completeness,

 

Marie Normals and System Frame Data

Marie Specials Frame Data

Marie Supers Frame Data

[TD]

Her stance cancel pressure seems legit. She can cancel from most normals and the recovery is decent enough to possibly use a ranged attack. Plus she can kinda move the foe where she wants them using an eye or her normals. She's probably going to want to frame trap or move the foe away from her to start getting some respect. Then she can get trick ly setting out cocoa during pressure and stuff. Also seems to have decent stagger pressure with her normals. 5aaa being -1 is sort of crazy. 2b seems like the best stagger normal but my bet is that 5b had the most options on block, which is just as well.

Arrows do seem sort of useless right now, however I do feel they will get a little more use eventually. 2d covers a good area midrange.

At her 236x moves safe on block? They seem so with the backflip done after.

Overall very excited about this char, she has a dark and gloomy, yet whimsical feel that I love.

EDIT: 5bb can be cancelled whenever after 5b, even right before she lands: this is going to be some scary mixup with meter. She can late 5bb for frame trap, 5bb whiff throw, 5bb late omc overhead or land 2a/5a. Not sure if she can do crossups yet but this is some strong stuff.

Edit2: plenty of her moves leave her airborne on OMC. So I may require meter but I think Marie is going to have plenty of ways to go into high/low once she is in. Snow is going to be the offense lover's best bet. Now whether she will get a reward is another question...

[TransientFaith]

EDIT: 5bb can be cancelled whenever after 5b, even right before she lands: this is going to be some scary mixup with meter. She can late 5bb for frame trap, 5bb whiff throw, 5bb late omc overhead or land 2a/5a. Not sure if she can do crossups yet but this is some strong stuff.\

 

5B jump cancel air turn backdash j.B crosses up pretty reliable