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Alternate275

[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

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Here's the basic loop I've got going with Carl:

Opponent in corner, doll+Carl on other side:

2A, 5B, 6B (6D), jump towards, j.C, 2A, 5B, 6B (6D), repeat

I can get 3 reps of this before Carl gets pushed too far away.

Midscreen you can do:

Carl on one side, doll on other side of opponent-

2A, 5B, 6B (6D), jump straight up, early j.C, 2A, 5B, 6B (6D), repeat

If the doll is on the same side as Carl, you can modify with:

2A, 5B, 6B (6D), QCF+AorB, (Carl and doll now on opposite sides of opponent), 2A, 5B, 6B (6D), jump straight up, early j.C, 2A, 5B, 6B (6D), repeat

The nice thing about this loop is that it resets really easily (sometimes on accident) and it's difficult to block the j.Cs if that occurs. It seems now like the ideal thing to do would be to go for 2 or 3 reps, then go for a reset or big damage move with the doll like 2D or 4D. With 4D, the doll has autoguard during the entire startup so that seems like a good moment to try resetting.

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^^^^

Question.

Does Carl have good damage with his combos and attacks?

Because in the test version he had shitty damage.

Definitely. Off a throw, he can get between 3000 and 4400 damage by looping 2C and 8D. The loop I posted above would also do around 35-40% damage, seemed like even more than that sometimes. If you do a B&B with Carl solo, you'll probably only get around 1500 damage but that's just the type of character he is IMO. Maybe nobody took the time to explore him when you guys played with Aksys.

Also, a correction to the combo you posted is 2A, 2Bor5B, 6B, 623C (Cantibile), 5B, j.B, j.C.

214C in the air seems pretty worthless ATM. Doesn't combo, and hard to hit even situationally.

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I only saw Carl once in the Joybox videos after a Ragna vs. Rachel match and right as he was about to fight the screen says "Here comes a new challenger." Then it was more Ragna vs. Rachel (sigh).

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Here's the basic loop I've got going with Carl:

snipped combos

The nice thing about this loop is that it resets really easily (sometimes on accident) and it's difficult to block the j.Cs if that occurs. It seems now like the ideal thing to do would be to go for 2 or 3 reps, then go for a reset or big damage move with the doll like 2D or 4D. With 4D, the doll has autoguard during the entire startup so that seems like a good moment to try resetting.

Awesome works with the combos :yaaay:

I'll be editing first post momentarily :v:

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Didn't see anybody post this stuff, but I felt it was important enough to takes notes for personally, so I might as well add it.

Nirvana Normals:

5D (Hold): You can move Nirvana around (forward or backwards). Carl can crouch while doing this and move Nirvana without moving himself. Taking one hit will cancel this move.

4D: Nirvana swings her arms forward, knocking the opponent far away, usually into a wall to bounce back. This move has super armor during startup.

6D: Nirvana will punch forward. It does less damage than her special, but it's much faster and easier to control afterwards.

8D: Nirvana will clap her hands over her head creating a blue circle. It's great if your opponent is trying to go over your doll to attack you.

2D: Nirvana will slam her fist down on the ground. I haven't tested this too much yet, it's most likely a low attack, I haven't hit many people with it and I don't know if it has super armor or not. If I remember right, it knocks the opponent into the air.

3D: Nirvana will spin on the ground and do a few hits to the opponent. A pretty useful move, it has better recovery than most of Nirvana's other attacks. If your opponent blocks it there's enough time to attack him with an overhead too.

22D: Nirvana teleports behind Carl. You can't do this move if Nirvana is busy doing something else (and if you're trying to summon her, you probably can't see her, so it's hard to tell if she's done with her last attack or not). She can take a hit while she's teleporting if you want to use her as a shield.

623D: Nirvana does a really good anti-air. She Extends her fingers out almost to twice the height of her body. It comes out quick too(compared to anything Nirvana normally does).

63214D: Nirvana will walk forward and try to grab her opponent. It's slow but it's got good distance. One hit will cancel the move, but if you're doing it from behind your opponent they'll have a hard time attacking behind them.

41236D: Nirvana will drill her arm forward, probably her biggest damage move. It has a slow startup and a slow recovery. However, since she moves forward a good distance with it you can use it to place her if you don't want her near you. Also, the combo gives you time to rush in and attack. There's super armor frames during the attack, but not before it, so those of you who want to attack Nirvana should do it before she does this move and those of you attacking with this might want to keep Nirvana away for the startup and use it to attack mid-drill.

A trick I've been doing with this move (and a few others) is getting behind the doll and dashing forward while she's attacking. This pushes her forward, as if you were dashing into a normal person. It can trick the opponent who might have thought that Nirvana's attack goes a specific distance, and then gets surprised to see it going even further. It can also be used as the perfect shield: something that will take hits for you while it attacks, and you can go through it at any time (via qcf+A/B).

Nirvana takes up space like any person would but only while activated. She takes hits while activated and has life underneath Carl's health meter. When her health is out she'll fizzle with electricity and recharge her health. Recharging is actually pretty quick, I haven't timed it, but I'd guess about 10 seconds.

You cannot control Nivrana if you are being hit, however you can control her while blocking. If you get hit in the middle of one of her start-ups, it will cancel her move.

One thing I keep finding myself doing is pressing the wrong direction for what I want to do with Nirvana. You always have to go from Carl's perspective, not from Nirvana's perspective. So if you are on the left of your opponent and Nirvana is on the right, hcf+D will make her do her fuoco attack.

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I've been trying a pretty unorthodox combo that I've been using as a B&B. Once I extend it well enough I'll post it for you guys to see. There's stuff before and after that I need to see if I can extend.

Carl's really interesting to play as, and I'm trying some stuff I'd never had tried in any other fighting game. For example, if I go to start a combo by doing 2 low pokes (2A, 2B) that's how I'd do it with any other character. But with Carl, you can do more than that, do 2A, 5, 2BD and you summon your doll mid-combo! I've been testing out a lot of simultaneous button presses with D. Do hcf+BD with Nirvana behind you and you sandwich your opponent with a Fucuo and your own combo. There's a lot of possibilities with Carl and his doll.

Also, I have a few questions if anybody can answer them:

Does Carl's qcf+A/B go through projectiles? I haven't had a change to test this out. It's designed to be used to get in front of your doll from behind or to sandwich your opponent between the two, but I want to use every possibility I can find.

Nirvana appears to have two supers. One where she does a string of combos, and one where she does a single heavy-hitting punch. Are these both variations of the same super (Do I hold D to get the single punch for example) or do they have completely seperate inputs (like hcb, f+D)?

and of course: What's Carl's Astral Finish input?! >.<

I'll let you guys know how that combo works out, might even supply a vieo, but no guarantees on that.

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Damn, I really want to try out the full version of Carl, the test version of Carl sucked so much.

His 236+A/B wasn't all invincible, I mean he gets hit during the dodge.

Oh yeah, his j.2C is pretty good, it's fast and upon hit he bounces off and toward the opponent if it's done in the air or on a fallen opponent, you can even add in a combo after he bounces the opponent.

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Damn, I really want to try out the full version of Carl, the test version of Carl sucked so much.

His 236+A/B wasn't all invincible, I mean he gets hit during the dodge.

Oh yeah, his j.2C is pretty good, it's fast and upon hit he bounces off and toward the opponent if it's done in the air or on a fallen opponent, you can even add in a combo after he bounces the opponent.

Way ahead of you :cool:. You can actually bounce someone 2 or 3 times in a row in mid-air. The combo I'm working on has me trip the opponent with 3C (there's stuff before but I'm working on optimization, I mentioned a little bit of it in a previous post) then I air-dash over them and j.2C which bounces them up into the air, followed by something (a normal or two), ending with qcb+C and then having Nirvana attack.

The biggest problem I have with Carl is that he's unforgiving. His defense is really low, and if you don't keep on edge you can lose the match before you even realize it.

I can get some pretty good combos in, but they don't hit like Ragna or Noel at all, his attacks are much more weak, but he's a trap character so it's expected.

People who played the test version come in and talk about how Carl is going to be bottom tier, and people who watch me play talk about how he's going to be top-tier. So it's really way to early to think about tier listings. Typically with trap characters like Rachel and Carl you'll see them be low, but later on after a lot of practice (I've spent $60 so far...) you get to see how the character really plays.

EDIT: Also, if you hit your opponent with Nivana's super combo, if you can time it right you can add more hits, but if you time it wrong your opponent can escape. It does a LOT of damage it you can fully extend that combo (not to mention after Nirvana's combo it send the opponent flying ready for you to add more).

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I'd be careful with the dashing thing, Nirvana doesn't shield you like little Eddie used to. This game is a lot more like Isuka:

- In AC, hitting little Eddie meant your hit was used up and wouldn't hit real Eddie. Hitting Nirvana doesn't absorb the hit or prevent it from hitting Carl at all.

- In MvC2, you can hit both characters, but they have to get hit on the same frame. In BB, a move with a long active time (Tager 2D) can hit Nirvana near the beginning and Carl near the end, even though the move itself is only 1 hit.

- Nirvana will block projectiles, but Noel can shoot past her.

Also, Nirvana has longer hitstun from everything, doesn't get pushed back much or knocked down when hit, and if the opponent combos her she doesn't go back to being invincible and is not allowed to do anything else until the combo is over. Tager, for example, can completely kill her with mashing 5A's, and if you come close to stop him he can fireball you in the face and continue the combo on her.

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2D: Nirvana will punch forward. It does less damage than her special, but it's much faster and easier to control afterwards.

you meant 6D right? because you have 2D listed twice :psyduck:

I have a question:

when you do a move with Nirvana, does Carl have some sort of animation that goes with it? like everytime Nirvana attacks Carl has to point his fingers or something (which leaves him open for a while).

I'm watching videos and it seems to be that way only when you're actually doing a command for Nirvana (like 22d instead of 2d). But im just guessing because i've never played the game.

Also, what "special" normals does Carl have? 6B and 3C?

Carl sounds like zappa with a dog except the dog is potemkin :yaaay:

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I'd be careful with the dashing thing, Nirvana doesn't shield you like little Eddie used to. This game is a lot more like Isuka:

- In AC, hitting little Eddie meant your hit was used up and wouldn't hit real Eddie. Hitting Nirvana doesn't absorb the hit or prevent it from hitting Carl at all.

- In MvC2, you can hit both characters, but they have to get hit on the same frame. In BB, a move with a long active time (Tager 2D) can hit Nirvana near the beginning and Carl near the end, even though the move itself is only 1 hit.

- Nirvana will block projectiles, but Noel can shoot past her.

Also, Nirvana has longer hitstun from everything, doesn't get pushed back much or knocked down when hit, and if the opponent combos her she doesn't go back to being invincible and is not allowed to do anything else until the combo is over. Tager, for example, can completely kill her with mashing 5A's, and if you come close to stop him he can fireball you in the face and continue the combo on her.

Right, usiung Nirvana as a shield is more about spacing than anything else. If the move is ranged long enough it can go through Nirvana, however, the same goes for Carl, if I do a long range normal it can hit you through Nirvana.

Most characters can 5A Nirvana to death if you let them do it, but if they do you just have to go in and attack in the middle of it (or attack through Nirvana :keke: )

you meant 6D right? because you have 2D listed twice

Thanks, fixed.

"Special" normals, you mean normals that do chip damage?

I can control the doll mid-dash and mid-animation, I think the control animation is just shown if I'm not busy doing something else. Whether I can block while controlling my doll during all cases, though is yet to be seen.

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The doll seems to stop attacking even if Carl blocks, so I think that answers your last question unless I'm missing something.

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Carl's really interesting to play as, and I'm trying some stuff I'd never had tried in any other fighting game. For example, if I go to start a combo by doing 2 low pokes (2A, 2B) that's how I'd do it with any other character. But with Carl, you can do more than that, do 2A, 5, 2BD and you summon your doll mid-combo! I've been testing out a lot of simultaneous button presses with D. Do hcf+BD with Nirvana behind you and you sandwich your opponent with a Fucuo and your own combo. There's a lot of possibilities with Carl and his doll.

Didn't i tell u about that stuff?

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"Special" normals, you mean normals that do chip damage?

i meant normals that require a direction with it... unless you're saying those normals do chip damage as well :psyduck:

example: 6b, j2c

I think i saw Nirvana stop attacking when Carl was blocking as well, on one of the joybox vids. Which means no blocking and trying to hit like zappa can. Damn. :psyduck:

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Yeah I was gonna mention that earlier when you compared her to Zappa. She's like the dog, but no where near as good. Pressure strings and mix-ups going to be Nirvana's only strong point. While the dog is good at pressure strings, mix-up, and defense. So its more like Lil Eddie if that makes you feel better.

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Didn't i tell u about that stuff?

Yeah, you did, thanks for the advice that night. I had kind of shrugged it off back then, but it's a lot more powerful than I thought initially.

I'll look into making a list like I did for Nirvana with Carl's normal in it.

Also, anybody find out about the two different Nirvana supers? I'm really curious about that, sometimes I accidentally pull it off.

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Also, anybody find out about the two different Nirvana supers? I'm really curious about that, sometimes I accidentally pull it off.

The multiple attacking one is (Hold D) 236236 (release D)

The big hitting one is (Hold D) 214214 (release D)

There was some really cool stuff posted for Carl on the J-BBS for Blazblue, I'll try to post some of it in English here when I have more time.

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The multiple attacking one is (Hold D) 236236 (release D)

The big hitting one is (Hold D) 214214 (release D)

There was some really cool stuff posted for Carl on the J-BBS for Blazblue, I'll try to post some of it in English here when I have more time.

Thanks a lot, this really helps. I didn't even know I had to hold D to do the super, no wonder why I kept messing up my inputs >.<

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I want to think positive things about this interesting character, but all the vids I've seem so far point out horrible character :(

Are there are vids showing somebody who actually knows what they're doing with Carl?

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