[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Alternate275]

Man school has been kicking me in the tail... So what have I been missing?

[Zoogstin]

All people who are currently playing Carl should be doing this as their basic BnB combo from now on if you aren't already doing it. Look at 0:17.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMLbcZtAuk&feature=channel_page

[Braver]

daaaaaaaaamn Zoogstin, that look like it belonged in a combo video.

i'll try to save this to my ipod and try it out sometime

[Zeero]

The quality is pretty bad.

But i think ragna had negative penality while taking that combo, which is why it did so much damage.

It still all comes down to whether or not you'd want to delay something in your ground loop to setup for a reset, or finish it off that way, ragna could have stayed on ground and ground teched away from your pressure.

[Zoogstin]

Well you've played the game and I haven't. But I didnt see anyway Ragna could have gotten a negative penalty. I think the only reason he recieved that much damage was because of his low vitality.

You make a good point though. Sometimes it would be better to go for a reset which can potentially do more damage. So yeah. He has a lot of options once any of his sandwich combos get started.

[Kyle]

6A, [8D, AirThrow] (break), Dash, 2C, Raise the Roof loop is amazing

[Zeero]

While i'm not 100% sure, the 8d airthrow break trap isnt as easy as most people think it is, or at least the way i do it is escapable. The litchi player i play with a lot has escaped it (tech->airdash forward immediately) every single time i tried it on her (yes, im pretty fail).

I think this is how it should be done to make it actually work.

1. Nirvana has to be close by, as in when your opponent techs, he should be in the 8d ring. If they're at the edge, they can airdash.

2. Airthrow has to be low, so that opponent is in 8d ring when they tech. If they're above it, they can tech and airdash.

3. 8d has to be active by the time the tech happens, if you're late with the 8d, then they can airdash out of it.

At least thats what i think... i can't get point #3 to happen because im a execution scrub and the litchi player has been able to get out of it everytime...

so i think if people even tried to airdash and forwardtech instead of just eating it because they think its a trap... they might be suprised...

Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgcQD5elWYA

6:09: seems like a proper tech trap because jin barely had a chance to move, 8d was active by the time he teched, and airthrow was low enough so 8d was right where jin was... at least i hope it is.

6:27: definitely not a proper tech trap because jin actually had to fall a bit into the 8d, he could have airdashed forward out of the 8d thats below him right when he teched (bc+66).

[Kyle]

I agree with you Zeero. this is why I found the most success with 6A, Jump, B+C. because it causes a low throw break right inside 8D (when spaced properly). I was suprised the 2C actually picked up after my dash. The opponent was extremely low to the floor.

Wait... does 2C pick up on grounded if they don't tech as well?

I did the Tager/H-men IAD J.A, J.A, J.2C rep a couple times this weekend. =)

Yes it is tight input, but the tricky part I did troubleshoot:

There's a delay between the IAD and the J.A, if you start too soon the J.2C will pop-up too high making it impossible to link more J.A's. So, Air Dash & J.A late.

[Kyle]

I agree with you Zeero. this is why I found the most success with 6A, Jump, B+C. because it causes a low throw break right inside 8D (when spaced properly). I was suprised the 2C actually picked up after my dash. The opponent was extremely low to the floor.

Wait... does 2C pick up on grounded if they don't tech as well?

I did the Tager/H-men IAD J.A, J.A, J.2C rep a couple times this weekend. =)

Yes it is tight input, but the tricky part I did troubleshoot:

There's a delay between the IAD and the J.A, if you start too soon the J.2C will pop-up too high making it impossible to link more J.A's. So, Air Dash & J.A late.

[Zeero]

or let carl fall a bit and do a late airdash and early J.A. Same concept where carl has to fall a bit.

I'm not sure if 2C picks up on grounded... it might on bigger hitbox characters... But sometimes i 2C opponents extremely low on the floor and it works... but its a black beat... but clearly they have not landed on the ground yet... which you can see here at 2:19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMLbcZtAuk

its a black beat... but Ragna hasnt hit the floor yet...

Also, another potential combo from that vid with the combo at 2:19 and how he did 2c off an airthrow 8d....

2c 8d airthrow 8d airdash airthrow 8d 2c 8d airthrow 8d airdash airthrow 8d (probably cant continue it anymore here... else it'd be gg)

If this all actually worked somehow... that can be the new loop and its damage will be beyond this world since throw damage is never prorated... 4 airthrow combo which isnt breakable because it is a trap.

Imagine how Carl's tier rank will jump if that actually works

Kinda wanna try it now

Btw kyle, i think i met your friend Som (uses V-13) at our arcade? He was talking about a kyle that uses Carl and posts on dloop

[Kyle]

Som, is a funny guy. Really Really Really funny. says the BEST feminist joke. He left Morehead last year, we played 3S & smash often but couldn't get him to really gear it up with us. *Good Times*

Notice on the particular segment where Carl 2C's after an air-throw, Carl actually does 8D LATE. If Ragna would have broken the throw it was not an un-blockable. unfortunately, this only works once your opponent refuses to break the throws.

Now, we just need to experiment in the corner and see if this is possible:

[2C, 8D, 6A, J.B+C~8D, Airdash, J.B+C~8D, Dash] xN

Can someone confirm the actual DMG of Carl's AirThrow please?!?

[Alternate275]

Can someone confirm the actual DMG of Carl's AirThrow please?!?

*Calls Mike Z*

[Kyle]

Just to get an idea. how many Carl players do we really have around? Where does everyone play?

I'm playing Carl (as much as I can), but I travel 5 hours to Middle TN to play BB.

[Zeero]

I've been playing Carl since the game came out, but I'm in canada soooo yea.

*recalls the amount of money wasted on Carl since he was so garbage back then*

[Kyle]

I've been having trouble spacing & Catching Noel. My matches are mostly like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wjK7HxVYT4&feature=channel_page

I have found some progress command dashing under her jump ins. If I left Ne~san were I was, I SOMETIMES touch her... any more luck from you guys?

[Zeero]

i'm guessing you're having these problems:

- When shes far away, she abuses her gunshot and runs away if you send nirvana at her (with 41236D) and you cant get in because your dash is crappy and u get anti aired when u try to approach her in the air.

- When shes close by, she rushes you down like crazy and you cant do anything because you cant move nirvana while blocking.

To catch her, you have to gain distance slowly against her. Basically, what i do when noel (or any character) is far away (full screen gun abuse), is i just move nirvana (hold 6d) to about the middle of the screen, while IBing gunshots for meter. Dont stay too far back from nirvana (try to stay somewhere that you can do 6d and it'll hit if she fell between you) because you'll just get rushed down, but slowly move towards her. This will usually force her to jump over nirvana, which then you can try 6A, or jA as anti air, or even block carefully and eventually start your pressure since nirvana is somewhere in range.

If you're feeling brave or see an opening for airdash jump in attempt, always remember to bring nirvana with you, something simple would be airdash jc 22d land 2a 5a 5b airdash 2c allecan and so on.

Keep in mind that your 236A/B also goes under gunshots, and remember what i said a few pages ago about 22D and when nirvana actually teleports? If shes somewhat close, you can do 22d 236a/b and you'll be right in her face with nirvana right there. You might get punished because of the recovery on the roll, but you might not, so its a way of getting in.

Also keep in mind that from knockdown, the moment you tech you can summon nirvana!! This is very important for Carl because without it, you'll be alone without nirvana while being rushed down over and over again. When you eat a combo and get knocked down, do 22d right after you ground tech, even if you're being rushed down and blocking, teleport is fast enough that nirvana will still come.

So pace yourself, and dont leave nee san behind, and then this isnt as bad as it used to be.

edit: if your opponent likes to end block strings with 236X, you can try (i never tried these myself, dont play noels much)

236A/B + 22d to escape + summon

backdash 5c (hopefully nirvana around to link to something useful)

just 3c under it

[Braver]

Just to get an idea. how many Carl players do we really have around? Where does everyone play?

I play in Chinatown Fair in NY, just me and one other Carl player there

[Alternate275]

I'm still waiting to play the game ="(

[DubiousDanzai]

Must point out a discrepency in the first post, the knife move in the air is refered to as Allegretto, but you have it listed as the move that travels along the floor, which is incorrect.

I am not sure where Cantabile goes, but it is not there.

[Alternate275]

Must point out a discrepency in the first post, the knife move in the air is refered to as Allegretto, but you have it listed as the move that travels along the floor, which is incorrect.

I am not sure where Cantabile goes, but it is not there.

Thanks for pointing out the error

Please, if there's any other errors, I'd like to remedy it ASAP

[Kyle]

WTF I said this on page 28. =X

so... 3. is there really just 3 of us trying to learn Carl right now?!?! LOL. he's a shitty/fun character

[Zeero]

well, what'd you expect? People laugh when they hear me say i play Carl.

Of course... they dont really laugh after playing against me.

it has also been mentioned somewhere within the first 5 pages as well i think.

Maybe we should make a wiki for Carl like the bang guys have

[AlmightyGnat]

Well, I've seen a Carl player where I play.

Once I feel comfortable with Tager, Carl is my next endeavor. He just looks too amazing.

[DubiousDanzai]

I only wish Carl was much better than he is, so basically I wish I was DIO.

[NeoUmbra]

WTF I said this on page 28. =X

so... 3. is there really just 3 of us trying to learn Carl right now?!?! LOL. he's a shitty/fun character

I will once i can get it on console